Deleted User wrote: » As is Africa. And S.America too. You're being awfully selective in what diseases you care to include.. AIDS has killed more people than either CORVID, or SARS.. and that originated in Africa. Where's your outrage about that, and it's links to bush meat there? In fact, Ebola and smallpox supposedly came from Africa (or the M.East), so... Nope. They're animals, not humans. There is a rather strong difference.. Unless we're talking about fairy land and not reality?
Absoluvely wrote: » Crows and ravens aren't widely known for preying on people.
Deleted User wrote: » I genuinely don't have a clue what you mean by that.
Victor wrote: » Meanwhile in Cavan last week - farmer culls 450,000 chickens due to bird fluhttps://www.anglocelt.ie/news/farming/articles/2020/03/11/4187048-farmer-culls-450000-chickens-due-to-bird-flu/
_Brian wrote: » Monaghan
Cee-Jay-Cee wrote: » I think this whole thing is going to change everything, social customs
Urquell wrote: » Do we have any links to what's being discussed?
Airyfairy12 wrote: » China has terrible animal rights, the animal markets have caged bats, dogs, chickens, rats, wild animals and cats stuffed into little cages together in filth until their slaughtered on the spot. Its sickening how animals are treated over there. Those rats and bats that are full of diseases and coming from who knows where, literally taken from the wild, in caves and off the streets are hacked up on the spot, not washed or checked for fleas or anything else, theyre cut up and sold for consumption. The bubonic plague came from fleas on Asian rats and spread across Europe wiping out over half the population. We're lucky its a strain of flu virus and not something much worse.
Buford T. Justice VI wrote: » Crows and ravens are corvids, a family of birds. I'm assuming your spellcheck changed Covid19 to Corvids?
[Deleted User] wrote: » I tend to look at this differently than others, and I'm more patient with Chinese behavior. I'm not expecting them to behave the same as Irish or Americans, simply because their civilisattion developed differently than ours. Western Europe and the US had their industrial revolutions long before China, and we modernized during a period when pollution wasn't such a strong concern. For Ireland, we managed to skip all of that simply by getting a jump by the EEC, but if that hadn't have happened we probably would have needed to develop a heavy industry focus at some point to push our economic progress forward. Instead, we made the jump from a agricultural society to a services society relatively quickly. The point is that China is changing. Even in the decade that I've lived there, both habits and the perceptions of people have been changing. When I arrived, spitting was commonplace. Doctors smoked in hospitals. Mothers would hold their baby or child in the air, while he pissed on the floor of a shopping mall. etc. There's a heap of examples of such behavior, but the important note is that it's declining. Laws have been brought in and actually enforced against that. Social pressure from individuals against people to act in such negative ways, is becoming more common. I've seen people on the street stop and complain at behavior that would have been ignored previously. China has a culture of silence. Traditionally, people didn't express their disgust or disapproval of many behaviors because you didn't know the influence/power of the other person. The repercussions of insulting another person could be widespread and sometimes terminal. However, with the rise of netcitizens, the expression of Chinese people online, they do have a strong impact on how the average Chinese person thinks. They're changing their society as time goes by. I'm back living in an area of Xi'an where I lived when I first came to China. It's changed completely. Recycling bins are outside every apartment block. Garbage trucks regularly collect waste. Road sweepers come along every morning and evening to wipe away the waste and dirt. There is a community driven effort to keep the neighborhood clean and healthy. Pollution wise, Xi'an would have pollution driven smog for 9 months of the year, but now it's only really there for about four months, during winter when the coal power plants kick in. And those plants are being refitted to be more environmentally friendly. There were 13 coal power plants when I arrived. There's now 6 remaining, with their work being taken over by nuclear, or clean energy plants located outside the city. Massive progress in a decade. In terms of food, that will change too, although it'd worth considering that the eating of exotic animals isn't and never was commonplace. I've been to wet markets in Shaanxi, and Chongqing. I never saw bat, or snake in any of them. The more traditional meats are there, although they would butcher for every part of the animal. There's a tendency here on boards to believe that everyone in China is eating these exotics regularly. They're not. Dog is essentially the meat for the very poor, or traditionalists (which are very old, and likely to die soon). The middle aged and young are more interested in beef, chicken, or fish, than eating something for a traditional belief in some supernatural power. I'd suggest cutting China some slack because it is developing in the face of enormous challenges. The countryside is teeming with people who aren't educated, extremely poor, live in squalor, and are very traditional minded. They resist the need to modernize, often still behaving the same as they would in the Qin dynasty. The cities are generally better, but the people from the countryside come for work, bringing their traditional thinking, and you'll find them behaving the same in the suburbs. There's a lot of friction between city born people and those from the countryside, when it comes to acceptable behavior. There's a common belief that Chinese people are obedient to the government and will obey whatever laws are brought in, out of fear or tradition. That's definitely not true. Tradition has a lot of power here, and the government needs to be careful as to what it changes. When the no-smoking laws were first brought in, they were ignored. Beijing brought in laws three times in the last ten years to ban smoking in many areas, and most people simply ignored them. It's only in the last two years that the bans are being accepted and followed (for the most part, and just in the cities, not the countryside) China will need time to evolve. Snapping fingers and expecting instant compliance is not going to happen. It's unrealistic. We will see major changes due to the effects of the Coronavirus, both cultural and legal, but even then, it will take decades before that filters into the consciousness of all Chinese people. Hopefully enough older people will die off to allow the younger Chinese the chance to shape their country more, but that will still take time. Some of the changes will simply be face-saving gestures, while others will be far more serious. But expecting China to behave as a western nation, is unrealistic, and terribly naive. They're never going to match up to our standards for living.. hell, we don't live up to our own standards. There's a lot of double standards going on in this thread. The west is not perfect in terms of food quality or hygiene. Obesity is a major concern in the west but many just ignore it. We acknowledge the unhealthiness of "fast food" with it's genetic manipulation of "meats" but pretend its fine. There are 16 McDonald restaurants in Xi'an (that I know of). Easily as many KFC... and they're not keeping to European standards of quality. We export our fast food and other unhealthy products to other nations, often with extremely dodgy ingredients or manufacturing processes, but expect those countries to behave better.. So... be patient. China will change. It already is. It probably won't change fast enough to satisfy Airyfairy12, but then, I honestly doubt any realistic pace of change would.
kowloonkev wrote: » Just to address some points as clearly having been in China a long time, likely with a Chinese partner you will be more inclined to see the bright side.
Regarding the food I would say in top tier and second tier cities people are not eating dogs. It certainly isn't widespread. However in third tier cities in Jiangsu (second wealthiest province I believe) dogs are consumed by a minority. There was a tourist street where I lived which had a shop that always had a whole skinned dog on a skewer and other dogs barking in the back out of view. Also bats and exotic animals are consumed by the rich in China. The poor can't afford them and eating exotic animals is a fairly new trend among upper middle class and is a growing market so don't expect that to change anytime soon.
The recycling bins were a thing in Jiangsu and Guangdong where I lived. They were nicely labeled but never actually used. It is still up to the old grannies and grandads to sort recycling on the side of the road.
The truth is I don't really even care about these issues. But I don't think the west should cut China slack regarding human rights abuses (see Hong Kong, Tibet, Uighers) and the way the manipulate the west and are now controlling our free speech. Now even the NBA are under Chinese control and mouthpieces for the CCP. It's embarrassing.
China have also been hugely investing in Africa, and by investing I mean they loan money to African countries to build infrastructure (Chinese companied build the infrastructure so it comes back to China anyway) then when the African nations can't pay it back China has huge influence and ability to take control of these nations.
China is a dangerous country because in fact, they are far more evolved than the west on many levels of thinking and strategy. If the US and EU continue down the line of putting up with their human rights abuses for the sake of the economy then we will all pay for it in the end, through the erosion of free speech like what is happening in HK currently.
Obviously you have ties to China so you have to be more diplomatic but I'm sure you are aware of what I'm talking about.
beejee wrote: » Yes, the old racist trope of microorganisms moving freely from indigenous evolved environments to vulnerable environments elsewhere via mass movement of people. Maybe you should give a lecture to nature from the side of a cliff or something, don't be afraid to squeak up, either. Tell it about your feelings, you know?
Airyfairy12 wrote: » Animal rights are human rights.
Hotblack Desiato wrote: » Did that post make any sense in your head?
Deleted User wrote: » Sure they do. "Europeans brought deadly viruses and bacteria, such as smallpox, measles, typhus, and cholera, for which Native Americans had no immunity (Denevan, 1976). On their return home, European sailors brought syphilis to Europe." How? (more than they do already, that is) Lets see some specifics, and how to do it without targeting people unfairly? As is Africa. And S.America too. You're being awfully selective in what diseases you care to include.. AIDS has killed more people than either CORVID, or SARS.. and that originated in Africa. Where's your outrage about that, and it's links to bush meat there? In fact, Ebola and smallpox supposedly came from Africa (or the M.East), so... Nope. They're animals, not humans. There is a rather strong difference.. Unless we're talking about fairy land and not reality?
beejee wrote: » Yes, as it does in reality. If "foreigners" have factually introduced diseases to "non-foreigners" time and time again throughout human history, and then some may state that fact during a non-indigenous disease outbreak... How in the name of molasses does that equal "racist trope" in your spacious skull? Please dig yourself into a hole for my amusement, I'm bored. To add: is "trope" simply a synonym for "historically accurate"? But even then, where does racism figure into it?
Airyfairy12 wrote: » Aids originated from people eating monkey meat as did Ebola, brings me back to my point of eating wild animals and the consequences of countries not having animal rights. I dont know why youre so fixated on my mentioning of where certain viruses have spread from? It didnt come from Mexico. Its not racist to state facts or name a country.
How can governments implement better animal rights? The same way they have in any other country that has animal rights. Ban the wet markets, ban animal testing and crack down on wild animals being sold on the black market. Increase animal rescue facilities and funding towards animal rights.
The horrific treatment of animals is directly effecting us through the spread of deadly disease and virus. Protecting animals directly effects humans. So yes, animal rights are human rights.
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