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Universal Basic Income?

drillyeye

Ive heard a lot about this idea the last few years, and for many reasons I think its cloud 9 level thinking.

But one aspect of it came up during a conversation at lunch.

If a country were to actually introduce UBI, surely there would be a stampede from the rest of the planet to get there.

Even if there were restrictions like, say, having to live in Ireland for 5 years, just look at it from a foreign persons point of view. "I can work for the rest of my life, or faff around Ireland for 5 years and then get paid a lot of money for doing absolutely nothing!"

Its similar to the dole, but with 2 very important differences. First of all, there is absolutely no expectation to work. Secondly, it would be close to average industrial wage, say, 30 grand a year.

How in the name of sweet onions could such a system be implemented without having the world knocking on your door? Its an angle on UBI I haven't heard before.

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banie01

Feisar wrote: »

We always think it'll be the menial jobs that go first, I'm in construction and paid from the neck up for the want of a better expression, it'd be easier replace me with a program than the lads on the tools.

In the long run we'll either be living in a utopia or some sort of hell with a tiny percentage having everything and the rest of us existing on scraps.

Massive amounts of automation work already underway in fields that were previously "safe" medical diagnostics, insurance claim handling, even legal pleadings are all being farmed out to Watson and Microsoft currently.

The next industrial revolution will hurt the neck up employees far more than those on tools.

Loafing Oaf

biko wrote: »

Vote for us! Free money!

Well they're all offering that in one form or another. There's an argument that UBI could save money by streamlining the welfare state:

In support of the idea, it must be pointed-out that the streamlining of an overly bureaucratised and expensive welfare system is something that the introduction of a basic income could potentially achieve.

https://www.rte.ie/brainstorm/2019/0207/1028123-all-you-need-to-know-about-basic-income/

4068ac1elhodqr

banie01 wrote: »

The next industrial revolution will hurt the neck up employees far more than those on tools.

This 4thIR is (currently) kicking below neck industries such as retail and warehousing to pieces.

A quick look at the uk's economy shows the worst year in retail for a quater of a century, CBI shows 3rd flat month in a row, and 57,000 jobs to be shed from 2019. The BRC said 10,000 were lost in the first 3wks of 2020 alone.

Water John

The Govn't of the US are considering issuing $1,000 to each american in this crisis. Seems they have been talking with Andrew Yang about how they may do this. It even may not be a once off.

4068ac1elhodqr

Water John wrote: »

The Govn't of the US are considering issuing $1,000 to each american in this crisis. Seems they have been talking with Andrew Yang about how they may do this. It even may not be a once off.

Lol, looks like the Donald stole his policy, All he has to do is run it (1k pm) until election day, and he'll walk it (again).

The term 'Freedom Dividend' does have a nice ring about it.

Geuze

drillyeye wrote: »

Its similar to the dole, but with 2 very important differences. First of all, there is absolutely no expectation to work. Secondly, it would be close to average industrial wage, say, 30 grand a year.
.

Your point on migration is fair.

Please note, proposed UBI is approx 13k per year.

Average earnings are 37k pa.

Average earnings for FT workers are 46-47k.

ILoveYourVibes

Its not cloud 9 thinking. A lot of countries already have experimented with it.

saudi Arabia has a citizen account program that is basically this. There have been experiments in experiments in Canada, Finland, India and Namibia.

I actually think its more important and could be more life changing in third world countries than here.

I would be in favor of it though.

jimmycrackcorm

Can someone explain the difference between UBI and where we have long term dole recipients who also get housing benefits. So they basically don't need anything else.

ILoveYourVibes

jimmycrackcorm wrote: »

Can someone explain the difference between UBI and where we have long term dole recipients who also get housing benefits. So they basically don't need anything else.

Dole recipients are unemployed.

People who work will receive UBI...it won't be means tested. Everyone will get it.

Water John

You also dismantle a whole system. No person checking are you trying for work, no nonsense training courses, no grey economy.

ILoveYourVibes

Water John wrote: »

You also dismantle a whole system. No person checking are you trying for work, no nonsense training courses, no grey economy.

She won't be happy!

Water John

It's what should have happened 10 years ago during the crash. Put spending money in peoples hands. David McWilliams was right.

ILoveYourVibes

Water John wrote: »

It's what should have happened 10 years ago during the crash. Put spending money in peoples hands. David McWilliams was right.

It actually did. Only for banker people.

Water John

Brilliant to see Basic Income being introduced for 55K arts and culture sector workers, €200/250/week.
https://www.thejournal.ie/basic-income-arts-workers-5269012-Nov2020/

I believe that like Haughey's tax free writer status, it can fuel the arts.

Loafing Oaf

Water John wrote: »

Brilliant to see Basic Income being introduced for 55K arts and culture sector workers, €200/250/week.
https://www.thejournal.ie/basic-income-arts-workers-5269012-Nov2020/

I believe that like Haughey's tax free writer status, it can fuel the arts.

Only being discussed as yet...

ILoveYourVibes

Water John wrote: »

Brilliant to see Basic Income being introduced for 55K arts and culture sector workers, €200/250/week.
https://www.thejournal.ie/basic-income-arts-workers-5269012-Nov2020/

I believe that like Haughey's tax free writer status, it can fuel the arts.

Brilliant.

TBH ....i think the UBI ...it will bring more honesty to the welfare system.

I mean you are allowed to work with it. And well ..some people are supplementing their welfare with mixers ...most just odd things. But i mean with UBI ...they wouldnt have to LIE about it at least.

Water John

It's being brought to Cabinet. This is not done unless an action is being decided.
Cabinet meetings are not chat rooms.

ILoveYourVibes

Water John wrote: »

It's being brought to Cabinet. This is not done unless an action is being decided.
Cabinet meetings are not chat rooms.

ugh ...then it will never happen.

Water John

Then we'll wait and see.

ILoveYourVibes

Water John wrote: »

Then we'll wait and see.

Apiarist

I am a well paid professional and it's likely that I will have to pay more tax to support the UBI. But I am all for it. As ILoveYourVibes said, it allows people to get into the odd jobs without losing the welfare money.

Loafing Oaf

I wonder do the Greens see this as a pilot for a truly universal BI...

ILoveYourVibes

Loafing Oaf wrote: »

I wonder do the Greens see this as a pilot for a truly universal BI...

They can't see they get too much shut eye!:pac:

ILoveYourVibes

victor8600 wrote: »

I am a well paid professional and it's likely that I will have to pay more tax to support the UBI. But I am all for it. As ILoveYourVibes said, it allows people to get into the odd jobs without losing the welfare money.

Yeah and certain jobs are very unstable. I mean you get two weeks jobs etc.

Partic in the arts ..and hospitality actually.

Apiarist

ILoveYourVibes wrote: »

Yeah and certain jobs are very unstable. I mean you get two weeks jobs etc.

Partic in the arts ..and hospitality actually.

Exactly. If people in unstable jobs have to sign in/sign off the Social Welfare, how much their time is wasted on the needless bureaucracy?