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Donald Trump Presidency discussion Thread VII (threadbanned users listed in OP)

ancapailldorcha

This thread is a continuation of the megathreads for discussing the presidency of Donald Trump and any matters which relate to this.

Please keep discussion civil and constructive and bear the charter in mind before posting.

Update 16/5/20:

Threadbanned users:

Outlaw Pete
everlast75
mcmoustache
BonnieSituation

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Manach

It is interesting to watch the Democrats exploiting the crisis by seeding false information so as to blame Trump. Case in point, the false narrative of Trump dissolved a Pandemic office, which turns out was an erroneous statement by the media : https://twitchy.com/brettt-3136/2020/03/16/washington-post-flip-flop-no-the-trump-white-house-did-not-dissolve-the-pandemic-response-office/

mcmoustache

Manach wrote: »

It is interesting to watch the Democrats exploiting the crisis by seeding false information so as to blame Trump. Case in point, the false narrative of Trump dissolved a Pandemic office, which turns out was an erroneous statement by the media : https://twitchy.com/brettt-3136/2020/03/16/washington-post-flip-flop-no-the-trump-white-house-did-not-dissolve-the-pandemic-response-office/

Fair play, Manach. You're a brave man.

I'm going to guess that your argument is some kind of technicality. We have video of Trump's statements that this epidemic was a hoax and we also have the records of Trump trying to defund the CDC.

Tell me. Do you think Trump is handling this well? Or would you rather just drive by and scuttle away when challenged?

Manic Moran

mcmoustache wrote: »

Fair play, Manach. You're a brave man.

I'm going to guess that your argument is some kind of technicality.

If you click the links, the argument is that the separate specific positions were eliminated and the functions folded into a consolidated organisation.

Interesting article from 2017. Partially prescient.
https://www.vox.com/2017/3/4/14803596/trump-pandemic-response-global-health-cdc

Though I do find it interesting the scorn the article has for the concept of closing borders, given how many countries have done it.

Nody

Manic Moran wrote: »

Though I do find it interesting the scorn the article has for the concept of closing borders, given how many countries have done it.

Closing borders would have worked in November/December when the first cases showed up with border testing; now it's purely a public stunt because the virus is already spreading through the local population (and yes that includes the EU) in most countries anyway. The only time it will be relevant again is once it's practically under full control again to avoid it starting spreading again assuming there are a set of countries were it's running rampant still (i.e. if Iceland has one case only in their case it would make sense to say no travel allowed to not get it in with effective and strong quarantine at the border for example while a country like UK or France it makes no difference because the the local spread is in full swing).

Igotadose

Manach wrote: »

It is interesting to watch the Democrats exploiting the crisis by seeding false information so as to blame Trump. Case in point, the false narrative of Trump dissolved a Pandemic office, which turns out was an erroneous statement by the media : https://twitchy.com/brettt-3136/2020/03/16/washington-post-flip-flop-no-the-trump-white-house-did-not-dissolve-the-pandemic-response-office/

No wapo access, but it seems like the function got moved. What matters also is, whether the people got moved. As I recall, the physician in charge left, so who is performing that function now at wherever it's landing, and has the new group been involved? It seems like pandemic response got lumped under 'bioterrorism' which might make sense in a 'resources' way, but bioterrorism sounds like 'deliberate actions by bad guys' versus a natural occurrence like Covid-19. Would the new organization be as focused on such a thing?

If the office is gone, it was dissolved (this is true.) If the function was moved and is performing correctly (as well as the old office did wrt to H1N1 and Ebola), no problem. It seems obvious that the function isn't running as well.

So, my view is there's an opinion piece in the WaPo that says "we're still doing the same job elsewhere." Fine. However, the WH office was and remains dissolved (by Trump), at least 1 prominent member of that office is gone, and given the bungled response so far by the US Government, it seems like the new function hasn't worked that well.

Nothing wrong in the reporting to date. Trump dissolved the office in 2018, and it's replacement seems to have been invisible/ineffective. If anything, this makes his administration look worse.

everlast75

I don't understand why people come on here and lie through their teeth.

Trump's handling of this has been incredibly poor and people will die.

Frankly, I find lying about it despicable.

listermint

When will the US descend into gun toting chaos . Irish embassy today telling any Irish citizens that wish to leave to do so ASAP.

greenfield21

Nody wrote: »

Closing borders would have worked in November/December when the first cases showed up with border testing; now it's purely a public stunt because the virus is already spreading through the local population (and yes that includes the EU) in most countries anyway. The only time it will be relevant again is once it's practically under full control again to avoid it starting spreading again assuming there are a set of countries were it's running rampant still (i.e. if Iceland has one case only in their case it would make sense to say no travel allowed to not get it in with effective and strong quarantine at the border for example while a country like UK or France it makes no difference because the the local spread is in full swing).

Reducing the spread will flatten the curve ensuring the healthcare system will be better positioned to deal with the cases. There is also alot of areas in the US where there is no community transmission yet. Restrictions on the movement of people including airports is surely a key measure in all of this. I also find it hard to believe Europe has done it purely as a publicity stunt.

beggars_bush

Queues yesterday to buy guns in some states

Only in America

listermint

beggars_bush wrote: »

Queues yesterday to buy guns in some states

Only in America

It's what happens when the society is based on fear, where social nets are non existent and fear of your neighbors harming you to get your possessions is propagated with a military like law enforcement.

I can't imagine few worse places to be in a pandemic scenario.

Midlife

Manach wrote: »

It is interesting to watch the Democrats exploiting the crisis by seeding false information so as to blame Trump. Case in point, the false narrative of Trump dissolved a Pandemic office, which turns out was an erroneous statement by the media : https://twitchy.com/brettt-3136/2020/03/16/washington-post-flip-flop-no-the-trump-white-house-did-not-dissolve-the-pandemic-response-office/

So the office wasn't dissolved and is still there?

duploelabs

“I’m a business person, I don’t like having thousands of people around when you don’t need them,” he added.

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/us-politics/coronavirus-video-trump-pandemic-team-cut-2018-a9405191.html

As the sign of his predecessor's desk said 'The buck stops here'

hotmail.com

listermint wrote: »

It's what happens when the society is based on fear, where social nets are non existent and fear of your neighbors harming you to get your possessions is propagated with a military like law enforcement.

I can't imagine few worse places to be in a pandemic scenario.

This is the country so many in Ireland idolise.

[Deleted User]

listermint wrote: »

It's what happens when the society is based on fear, where social nets are non existent and fear of your neighbors harming you to get your possessions is propagated with a military like law enforcement.

I can't imagine few worse places to be in a pandemic scenario.

I lived in America for many years.

It's nothing like that.

Cut out the hyperbole.

Leroy42

Fr Tod Umptious wrote: »

I lived in America for many years.

It's nothing like that.

Cut out the hyperbole.

That is very true, but hardly surprising that it is the view of America from the outside when Trump has ridden in on the back of such fears.

Stoking up racial tensions, enemy at the border, Dems out to take your guns, socialism wants to kill your babies, Mexican drug gangs killing and raping everyone they meet.

Hande hoche!

pixelburp wrote: »

Ain't that the truth, looks like the German Vaccine story has grown some legs; guess he reckoned that grabbing these virologists would be a case of throwing money at the issue and they'd pack bags for the glorious USA.

As said already, it'll be denied by the True Believers, or Trump himself, but the mask certainly slipped with this news. Not just dangerously incompetent, stunningly naive, but a genuinely abhorrent human being whose isolationist "America First" viewpoint would see the world burn if it wasn't willing to pay the price for a Vaccine. His credentials as an empathic creature are now completely shot.

Just as a follow up, the German company has denied it has happened. Although it feels an age ago.

https://eu.usatoday.com/story/news/2020/03/16/german-company-curevac-says-no-offer-trump-coronavirus-vaccine/5062072002/

aloyisious

Nody wrote: »

Closing borders would have worked in November/December when the first cases showed up with border testing; now it's purely a public stunt because the virus is already spreading through the local population (and yes that includes the EU) in most countries anyway. The only time it will be relevant again is once it's practically under full control again to avoid it starting spreading again assuming there are a set of countries were it's running rampant still (i.e. if Iceland has one case only in their case it would make sense to say no travel allowed to not get it in with effective and strong quarantine at the border for example while a country like UK or France it makes no difference because the the local spread is in full swing).

I'm wondering if the Admin might try isolating areas which have larger numbers of virus victims than others hit by the outbreak - as practiced at Wuhan in China. Don seemed to indicate that it could be on the control-options list with his reference to possibly stopping US internal flights in the future, the flights have start and stop points.

beggars_bush

Fr Tod Umptious wrote: »

I lived in America for many years.

It's nothing like that.

Cut out the hyperbole.

It depends where you live though

Majority of country is full of decent people

aloyisious

Hande hoche! wrote: »

Just as a follow up, the German company has denied it has happened. Although it feels an age ago.

https://eu.usatoday.com/story/news/2020/03/16/german-company-curevac-says-no-offer-trump-coronavirus-vaccine/5062072002/

Daniel's history with CureVac seems to have started as CEO of the Boston [USA] branch of CureVac in 2017 before going on to the CEO position of CureVac in Germany. According to the info in the link below dated today he was replaced by the founder of the Co some days ago after his sudden departure from CureVac more than a week ago and is on medical leave unrelated to Covid-19. No public indicators are visible yet as to why this occurred, its possible the visit by Daniel to the White House event after his departure was merely coincidental. Speculation is liable to be rife due to the fears caused by the virus outbreak.

https://www.fiercebiotech.com/biotech/new-old-curevac-ceo-non-covid-19-medical-leave-as-plot-thickens

mcmoustache

beggars_bush wrote: »

Queues yesterday to buy guns in some states

Only in America

You're not thinking this all the way through. When you have a gun, you have the means to acquire toilet paper without having to get into an aussie fist-fight.

mcmoustache

Manic Moran wrote: »

If you click the links, the argument is that the separate specific positions were eliminated and the functions folded into a consolidated organisation.

Whenever you eliminate a dedicated body with responsibility for something, its responsibilities are usually folded into a larger organisation. That's what happens in both the public and private sector.

Manic Moran

listermint wrote: »

When will the US descend into gun toting chaos . Irish embassy today telling any Irish citizens that wish to leave to do so ASAP.

It'll take a while. A very long while, at which point I suspect boardsies will have more problems close to home than to worry about the state of lawlessness in the US.

Various parts of the US in the past have suffered dramatic breakdowns in the normal functioning of society in the past.

After the hurricanes like Katrina for example, gun-toting Americans either (a) went on armed rampages, shooting each other over toilet paper (Or some other non-soggy commodity) or (b) formed ad-hoc community defense groupings and didn't shoot anyone.

What's the Irish equivalent to the Cajun Navy? How many of them do you think own guns? Americans traditionally take self and community reliance rather seriously. There is this bizarre idea that Americans do not believe in "Help thy neighbour". My Nexdoor feed has plenty of neighbourly commentary varying from offering to do shopping runs for at-risk people to shop inventory reports. What Americans tend not to trust is the idea "The government will take care of everything, you need just relax"

Frank Bullitt

https://twitter.com/SkyNews/status/1239941344283496448

He always throws in these sweeping statements of how things will be amazing etc at the end.

Jesus wept.

mcmoustache

Gintonious wrote: »

He always throws in these sweeping statements of how things will be amazing etc at the end.

Jesus wept.

Trump is at his best when he shuts his damned gob.

GM228

https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/1239906156463652868?s=19

Just love how Gretchen put him in his place outlining the 13 things she has done thus far:-

https://twitter.com/GovWhitmer/status/1239919587266826241?s=19

spacecoyote

now he's floating the idea of giving cash direct to people.

Maybe its from a purely generous perspective, maybe it's trying to buy votes after the sh1tshow so far

https://www.ft.com/content/1b0d27a0-6857-11ea-800d-da70cff6e4d3?shareType=nongift

FT so link probably won't work for non subscribers

Manic Moran

On the good news front, at least they are, if belatedly, getting advice from the right people now. Two articles today on the woman who is the White House's coronavirus response co-ordinator indicate, that at least in this case, pure competence is winning over family ties or party loyalty.

https://www.oprahmag.com/entertainment/a31680328/who-is-deborah-birx/

https://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2020/mar/16/deborah-birx-brings-decades-of-hivaids-experience-/

In naming her to the administration’s coronavirus task force last month, Vice President Mike Pence described her as a “world-renowned global health official and physician,” and that’s no exaggeration, according to others in the field.

Dr. Birx, 63, is “absolutely the right person” to lead the Trump administration’s COVID-19 response, said Dr. Carlos del Rio, professor of infections diseases at the Emory University School of Medicine, who called PEPFAR “the most successful global health program ever.”

“I would give money to see a meeting between her and [President] Trump,” said Dr. del Rio. “She won’t stay quiet when she has something to say. She’s a tough lady. If anyone can talk truth to power, it’s her.”

SteelyDanJalapeno

spacecoyote wrote: »

now he's floating the idea of giving cash direct to people.

Maybe its from a purely generous perspective, maybe it's trying to buy votes after the sh1tshow so far

https://www.ft.com/content/1b0d27a0-6857-11ea-800d-da70cff6e4d3?shareType=nongift

FT so link probably won't work for non subscribers

Is that helicopter money?
That's been discussed in a number of places to save the economy, it can work if done correctly

Igotadose

mcmoustache wrote: »

Trump is at his best when he shuts his damned gob.

There's no proof of that, either. Trump doesn't have a best, he has a 'careen from failure to failure trying to pass the buck at every turn.'

Computer Science Student

Have to say, Trump is playing a blinder re: Covid-19. The media set him up for a fall with some of their fake news agendas at the beginning of the outbreak, but he has consistently made the correct decisions on this since, and has not been afraid to escalate the situation beyond what was initially thought necessary as the situation has evolved.