nav[aria-label="Primary Navigation"] { padding: 0; & ul { list-style: none; width: 100%; display: flex; flex-direction: row; justify-content: start; align-items: start; gap: 30px; padding: 0; & li { margin: 0; } & ul li { list-style: none; } } }

Child Item

Is anyone else starting to become a bit excited?

q85dw7osi4lebg

As per title, have we reached the bottom ?

Don't think we'll see the likes of $3200 ever again.

$5150 at time of posting.

Back in the mainstream media once more.

Find more posts tagged with

Quick Links

Comments

Arrival

Bob24 wrote: »

Recession is pretty much a given at this stage.

But how it will play out for BTC is very hard to predict.

Well we were hopeful people would transfer cash into BTC as a store of value to ride out any instability in the stock market but now, with the pandemic, so many people are selling to get emergency funds available as they'll need it now. There was no way anyone could've predicted this occuring at this time. I was so excited for May onwards but now it doesn't even really cross my mind as our day-to-day lives are ****ed

mcgucc22

Stewball wrote: »

Lads, sorry for hijacking the thread but I got a question and this seems the busiest thread.

I set up an account with Kraken. I've being trying to get verified for an intermediate account and there was an issue with my ID and I got an email from them saying this:

Is this the norm?
Sounds a bit strange to me.

It’s like that since at least 2018. I had to do it back then.

makeorbrake

Bob24 wrote: »

That’s the theory yes and I agree with it, but let’s say how it plays out in practice.

Agreed...acid test awaits.

Bob24 wrote: »

Gold only took fairly small hit in the last couple of days as traders had to sell the last strong asset they had to cover there massive losses. But it is minor and it will recover.

It still closed 9% down over the course of the week.

Bob24 wrote: »

Bitcoin however completely tanked. This kind of broke the safe heaven argument for now.

I'm not so sure it has if we are still treating gold as a safe haven. If there's a sell off of bitcoin, its logical to me that it will run down faster than a sell off on gold.

Bob24 wrote: »

Doesn’t mean I don’t think Bitcoin has a future, but this clearly showed that gold still is king in terms of hard money and Bitcoin still needs to prove itself.

Gold was just shy of 10% down. It dropped 30% at the outset of the 2008 financial crisis. To me, it seems they're acting in the same way - just to different levels of intensity.

As regards the use of the phrase 'hard money', that's another matter. It could be that you're right insofar as bitcoin isn't a safe haven against pandemic induced firesales but that it is a hedge against FIAT-based and QE-induced inflation.

We're only at the end of the beginning here. Watch this space.

Bob24

makeorbrake wrote: »

As the QE cranks up, it will represent a great opportunity for people to examine what hard money is. When gold goes up, bitcoin will also.

That’s the theory yes and I agree with it, but let’s say how it plays out in practice.

Gold only took fairly small hit in the last couple of days as traders had to sell the last strong asset they had to cover there massive losses. But it is minor and it will recover.

Bitcoin however completely tanked. This kind of broke the safe heaven argument for now.

Doesn’t mean I don’t think Bitcoin has a future, but this clearly showed that gold still is king in terms of hard money and Bitcoin still needs to prove itself.

grindle

unkel wrote: »

To put it in the most diplomatic way I can - you're not building up any credibility here. Take from that what you will.

Some sadlumps out there read his crap and think it has credibility because they read nothing else and aren't willing to. He and cohorts shítpost when prices drop, visitors go "oh, must be right". That's all he needs, it's his crypto-shítpost oxygen.

unkel

JohnnyFlash wrote: »

Bitcoin produces grotesque amounts of CO2 emissions.

It has been explained to you several times on this forum, JohnnyFlash, that this is not the case. Yet you keep coming out with that same mantra over and over again

To put it in the most diplomatic way I can - you're not building up any credibility here. Take from that what you will.

Vico1612

Stewball wrote: »

Lads, sorry for hijacking the thread but I got a question and this seems the busiest thread.

I set up an account with Kraken. I've being trying to get verified for an intermediate account and there was an issue with my ID and I got an email from them saying this:

Is this the norm?
Sounds a bit strange to me.

Binance used to do that so no real big surprise. It's to avoid scammers who manage to scan people's ID and use it to open fake accounts

FFVII

Stewball wrote: »

Lads, sorry for hijacking the thread but I got a question and this seems the busiest thread.

I set up an account with Kraken. I've being trying to get verified for an intermediate account and there was an issue with my ID and I got an email from them saying this:

Is this the norm?
Sounds a bit strange to me.

Must be new. Some dose in fairness.

Go to Bitstamp instead.

Stewball

Lads, sorry for hijacking the thread but I got a question and this seems the busiest thread.

I set up an account with Kraken. I've being trying to get verified for an intermediate account and there was an issue with my ID and I got an email from them saying this:

Thank you for clarifying your address and for forwarding the requested images.

However we've encountered an issue which is preventing the verification of your account.

For this reason, we must ask you to provide an ID Confirmation Photo. This is a picture of you holding the same ID that you've already uploaded, along with a handwritten note which shows your signature, the current date, and a message stating “Only for trading digital currency on www.kraken.com”;.

Please upload your ID Confirmation Photo by navigating to the Get Verified page of your Kraken account and selecting the Intermediate > Get Verified button. Once complete, please reply to this email and we will help expedite your verification.

Is this the norm?
Sounds a bit strange to me.

Dohnjoe

grindle wrote: »

Calculable to an extent, P/E ratios vary wildly and made no sense with Apple or Facebook for the first 5-ish years of the bullruns those companies had this century, just hopes and dreams promised for the future.

Most cryptos are abysmal shítcoins, others are oil-alikes except without a monarchy setting prices at a whim. Everybody beyond moonbois should actually want the prices to bottom out as low as they can possibly go because then we all have a good picture of what utility means to the price of [whichevercrypto]

Indeed, same with property, 5 different estate agents won't give you the exact same estimate, but they will be within a calculable window

Crypto is completely outside that sphere. One of the only "measures" we can go on is max supply, and that's super-flaky at best.

grindle

Dohnjoe wrote: »

Share value is calculable. If a company is calculated to be worth around X, then a 100th share of that is X/100. You can literally look at their balance sheet for this.

The values of most cryptos are not calculable. They are not the same types of instruments at all.

Calculable to an extent, P/E ratios vary wildly and made no sense with Apple or Facebook for the first 5-ish years of the bullruns those companies had this century, just hopes and dreams promised for the future.

Most cryptos are abysmal shítcoins, others are oil-alikes except without a monarchy setting prices at a whim. Everybody beyond moonbois should actually want the prices to bottom out as low as they can possibly go because then we all have a good picture of what utility means to the price of [whichevercrypto]

Dohnjoe

Buffet is sitting on 125 bn of cash - now people get why. The market is currently going to safe bonds and cash.

Dohnjoe

cnocbui wrote: »

Shares being a 'share' in the company is meaningless, as is the 'technical value'. You can not demand that someone purchase your share for it's fraction of the company's NAV or 'fair value' or any other metric.

Share value is calculable. If a company is calculated to be worth around X, then a 100th share of that is X/100. You can literally look at their balance sheet for this.

The values of most cryptos are not calculable. They are not the same types of instruments at all.

makeorbrake

Bob24 wrote: »

Recession is pretty much a given at this stage.

But how it will play out for BTC is very hard to predict.

As the QE cranks up, it will represent a great opportunity for people to examine what hard money is. When gold goes up, bitcoin will also.

makeorbrake

cnocbui wrote: »

There is a report that claims at least 70% of bitcoin mining is done using renewables and so does not result in CO2 production. You know about Iceland Geothermal and the Hydro power in China, for example?

It's a non argument. Miners can only use the most competitively produced power and more often than that, that's renewable. Stranded power exists in abundance. Crypto miners can make use of it when nobody else can. In remote oil fields in Canada, flared off gas is now been harnessed to mine crypto. Fossil fuel power stations around the world waste boundless energy daily - having to keep those systems ticking over during off-peak times. Crypto mining can make use of this. The very same with the peaks and troughs of solar/wind, etc.

cnocbui

FFVII wrote: »

Where have all those trillions gone this time?

They doubled the debt to cover 2007...so they double it again to cover the next one....then what happens?

You're looking at it - or the start of 'it', anyways. The trillions, or part thereof, have gone into the pockets of the flash traders and whales who sold their shares before the crash. The rest was illusory value evaporating.

FFVII

cnocbui wrote: »

Er, current world debt is at 350% of global GDP. It's currently about US$58.28 Trillion. The 2007 GFC happened because the debt bubble burst, and that was when global debt was 'only' US$24.46 Trillion.

The size and scale of the current debt bubble, thanks to endless quantitative easing and 'cheap' finance, is more than twice the size.

There will shortly be mass layoffs and company bankruptcies on a terrifying scale. I doubt there is a medium to large airline on the planet that won't be insolvent inside a month. I have already withdrawn cash from the bank and will do so again until I only have an operating expenses float. It wouldn't surprise me if the Cyprus crew-cut becomes a new fashion statement. Someones got to pay for all the virus consequences, and I think I know who will be put in the frame for that.

Where have all those trillions gone this time?

They doubled the debt to cover 2007...so they double it again to cover the next one....then what happens?

I don't have much, it's a rich mans worry. Unless now is when society breaks down.....then you'll just hear me saying I told ye so....while I'm down in New Zealand burning down that billionaire town they've built down there.

JJJJNR

How much C02 does apple produce building and shipping and don't give me they're recent green credentials either when you consider they have been net producer's since the 70s.

cnocbui

JohnnyFlash wrote: »

Apple produced goods and services that people wanted to buy.

Bitcoin produces nothing only lols and grotesque amounts of CO2 emissions.

Stupid comparison.

There is a report that claims at least 70% of bitcoin mining is done using renewables and so does not result in CO2 production. You know about Iceland Geothermal and the Hydro power in China, for example?

But leaving that non-issue aside, Do tell me what the Euro notes in my wallet or bank account 'produce'? What does a gold ingot 'produce'?

How was Cheltenham, you little virus spreader, or was that Pintman Paddy..?

JohnnyFlash

Apple produced goods and services that people wanted to buy.

Bitcoin produces nothing only lols and grotesque amounts of CO2 emissions. It’s a terrible store of value, useless as digital currency, and offers no anonymity at all.

Stupid comparison.

cnocbui

FFVII wrote: »

What signs?

Er, current world debt is at 350% of global GDP. It's currently about US$58.28 Trillion. The 2007 GFC happened because the debt bubble burst, and that was when global debt was 'only' US$24.46 Trillion.

The size and scale of the current debt bubble, thanks to endless quantitative easing and 'cheap' finance, is more than twice the size.

There will shortly be mass layoffs and company bankruptcies on a terrifying scale. I doubt there is a medium to large airline on the planet that won't be insolvent inside a month. I have already withdrawn cash from the bank and will do so again until I only have an operating expenses float. It wouldn't surprise me if the Cyprus crew-cut becomes a new fashion statement. Someones got to pay for all the virus consequences, and I think I know who will be put in the frame for that.

cnocbui

Dohnjoe wrote: »

Shares are literally a "share" of a company, if the company performs well, the share value technically rises (they often produce dividends). Land is a scarce resource that, with the odd crisis aside, generally goes up in value over time and produces rent. Bonds is debt that produces interest payments, e.g. your high interest South American debt is higher yield but much more of a risk than your US treasuries.

These are tangible things where underlying value can be calculated.

Most cryptos are a different beast altogether.

Shares being a 'share' in the company is meaningless, as is the 'technical value'. You can not demand that someone purchase your share for it's fraction of the company's NAV or 'fair value' or any other metric. Warren Buffet is famously one of the richest men on Earth precisely because he purchased shares where the share market value was below the supposed technical value, which rather highlights what my point is - the value isn't intrinsic, it's only what someone is willing to pay you.

Under Steve Jobs, Apple shares didn't pay any dividend, even when they were minted. Holders were entirely reliant on Ponzi scheme market value - finding someone to buy them from you. Many, if not most companies are like this.

Shares that do pay a dividend are an entirely different beast and do have a value beyond the whim of the market, so I will concede you that one. But that is a potentially ephemeral value as a company can decide to stop paying dividends, as some do.

Property is a scarce resource, but it has no value beyond what someone else is prepared to pay you for it. I expect the 'value' of any property you and I own in this country is about to slide, shortly. This will be the second such event in a decade. So much for your generally goes up theory. Trust me, I wish it did. I was rather hoping to be in a position to sell my house later this year, now I doubt that will be possible without making a loss.

Value is not intrinsic, it's a figment of peoples imagination. It's illusory, as proven by the recent share market crash, and the others over the last century.

Bob24

JJJJNR wrote: »

Signs of a recession, 40% decline in stocks, corona virus, uncertainty.

Recession is pretty much a given at this stage.

But how it will play out for BTC is very hard to predict.

JJJJNR

Signs of a recession, 40% decline in stocks, corona virus, uncertainty.

FFVII

JJJJNR wrote: »

It's not over till the fat lady sings.

Even if the price of bitcoin and other cryptocurrencies are tanking it's under the holders control if they as weak hands want to sell. We are at the early stage of this corona virus and it's still to early to predict if there will be a run on the banks so belittle people all you want look at the signs they are there, mocking is catching as my mother used to say... the banking and social system is being held together with chewing gum at the moment.

What signs?

JJJJNR

It's not over till the fat lady sings.

Even if the price of bitcoin and other cryptocurrencies are tanking it's under the holders control if they as weak hands want to sell. We are at the early stage of this corona virus and it's still to early to predict if there will be a run on the banks so belittle people all you want look at the signs they are there, mocking is catching as my mother used to say... the banking and social system is being held together with chewing gum at the moment.

Dohnjoe

cnocbui wrote: »

All forms of 'investment' are ponzi schemes, predicated on someone willing to pay you more in the future than you paid for your house, land, gold bar, shares in Ryanair, Bitcoin or limited edition Royal Jubilee tea cup. People used to even consider postage stamps as sound investments, until email came along and spoiled the fun.

Shares are literally a "share" of a company, if the company performs well, the share value technically rises (they often produce dividends). Land is a scarce resource that, with the odd crisis aside, generally goes up in value over time and produces rent. Bonds is debt that produces interest payments, e.g. your high interest South American debt is higher yield but much more of a risk than your US treasuries.

These are tangible things where underlying value can be calculated.

Most cryptos are a different beast altogether.

cnocbui

JohnnyFlash wrote: »

I presume that is aimed at me. I've had to say it many times before, but I'll say it again for clarity - I don't take any particular pleasure in people losing money on this odious ponzi scheme. Not the rubes anyway. I do love the idea of sociopaths like Wright, Justin Sun, Pomp etc losing their bollocks.

What I don't like is how the rubes try to rope new blood into the crypto ponzi. This takes many forms - FOMO, the halving, fundamentals, 200 (or other random figure) DMA, distributed finance, store of value etc etc. They make this attempt to confuse new blood by using technical mumbo-jumbo that they don't understand themselves.

I've toned down significantly in my use of language to show how contemptuous I find all this.

Many people heavily invested in equities have lost their shirts and even pensions - far more serious consequences than people taking a punt with cryptos.

All forms of 'investment' are ponzi schemes, predicated on someone willing to pay you more in the future than you paid for your house, land, gold bar, shares in Ryanair, Bitcoin or limited edition Royal Jubilee tea cup. People used to even consider postage stamps as sound investments, until email came along and spoiled the fun.

grindle

Thargor wrote: »

I dont see any noobs getting fleeced around here though so no idea why the dregs spend so much time educating us with their monumental wisdom, this board is pretty much all traders and pretty cynical ones at that. The way they disappear during times of gains and slink back in during a big fall is pathetic tbh.

^^^

Dear noobs, if you're not prepared to lose it all, put nothing in.

Signed,

The rubes.

Thargor

I dont see any noobs getting fleeced around here though so no idea why the dregs spend so much time educating us with their monumental wisdom, this board is pretty much all traders and pretty cynical ones at that. The way they disappear during times of gains and slink back in during a big fall is pathetic tbh.