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Donald Trump Presidency discussion Thread VII (threadbanned users listed in OP)

ancapailldorcha

This thread is a continuation of the megathreads for discussing the presidency of Donald Trump and any matters which relate to this.

Please keep discussion civil and constructive and bear the charter in mind before posting.

Update 16/5/20:

Threadbanned users:

Outlaw Pete
everlast75
mcmoustache
BonnieSituation

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aloyisious

Don might try to get publicity he sees as good by pushing back against democrats Mayor Bill de Blasio and Governor Andrew Cuomo in New York. Bill has declared a state of emergency to fight the virus outbreak, which will allow him use new powers as the number of confirmed cases in the city rose to 95. He hasn't issued new rules yet but said he supported an announcement by Andrew Cuomo earlier today banning meeting of more than 500 people in the state.

aloyisious

VinLieger wrote: »

Whats their cognitive dissonance reponse when global figures are brought up?

It might be the same response given to the school shootings: there were no deaths and the photos of dead children were photos of actors, its all faked.

Poldsgold

Dow Jones gains by president:

Clinton 93-97: 2,356 start -> 6,764 finish = 187.09% increase, an average of 3.89% increase per month (48 months per term)
Clinton 97-01: 6,764 start -> 10,686 finish = 57.98% increase, or 1.2% average increase per month
Clinton total: 2,356 start -> 10,686 finish = 353% increase, 3.67% increase per month

Bush 01-05: 10,686 start -> 10,626 finish = 0.56% decrease, or 0.01% decrease per month
Bush 05-09: 10,626 start -> 8,215 finish = 22.69% decrease, or 0.47% decrease per month
Bush total: 10,686 start -> 8,215 finish = 23% decrease, or 0.24% per month.

Obama 09-13: 8,215 start -> 13,596 finish = 65.5% increase, or 1.36% increase per month.
Obama 13-17: 13,596 start -> 19,882 finish = 45.79% increase, or 0.95% increase per month.
Obama total: 8,215 start -> 19,882 finish = 142% increase, or 1.48% increase per month

Trump 17-20: 19,882 start -> 21,200 current = 6.6% increase, or 0.17% per month (38 months, all others are 48 months).

He'll want to dramatically improve those numbers sharpish in an election year, because the economy was the one area Trump and his base have clung on to desperately as the rest of his presidency has unraveled.

In order to achieve what Clinton or Obama did in their first terms, he will need manage to get the Dow Jones back to either 33,000 (Obama) or 57,000 (Clinton) points before November. Otherwise, in terms of the economy, he can only be viewed as a failure compared to his superior predecessors.

The problem is, with how things are going he is in danger of doing worse than even Bush's first term, which would be the case if he drops below 19,700 prior to the election.

This man is failing, badly.

20Cent

VinLieger wrote: »

Whats their cognitive dissonance reponse when global figures are brought up?

Stuff like the below:

The numbers are tiny, (don't seem to understand how it spreads)
H1N1 killed 16.000 so the hysteria over Corona is fake.
The legislation the Dems want to pass to tackle it is cover to increase abortion.
"Liberal" media are exaggerating it to hurt the stock market and therefore trump.

briany

20Cent wrote: »

Looking at MAGA twitter they still think it's a hoax and the Dems are reacting hysterically just to bring the stock market and Trump down.

This is the nightmare scenario where the constant attack on the media and experts is going to result in a lot of unnecessary death.

I once thought that people might one day band together and fight climate change, adopting new lifestyles and energy sources. Now, I'm leaning more toward the idea that CC would end up with people aboard rafts arguing whose religion is correct.

Similarly, there will be no shortage of people will attempt to deny and distract when it comes to this outbreak. There will come no point where they get with the program. The best thing to do is just mentally bypass them because attention is what they feed on.

VinLieger

20Cent wrote: »

Looking at MAGA twitter they still think it's a hoax and the Dems are reacting hysterically just to bring the stock market and Trump down.

This is the nightmare scenario where the constant attack on the media and experts is going to result in a lot of unnecessary death.

Whats their cognitive dissonance reponse when global figures are brought up?

20Cent

Looking at MAGA twitter they still think it's a hoax and the Dems are reacting hysterically just to bring the stock market and Trump down.

This is the nightmare scenario where the constant attack on the media and experts is going to result in a lot of unnecessary death.

EltonJohn69

Biden has a habit of verbally lashing out (cursing/loud voice) demanding a press up competition .... will sanders be on the end of some of this ? It wouldn’t be a good look.....

eire4

duploelabs wrote: »

Throwing a feint

Maybe but I doubt that. Not Sanders style. I suspect he may be making a play to try and push Biden and his fellow corporate Democrats to come at least some way towards where Sanders is at on some of his major policies. Just my opinion though.

duploelabs

eire4 wrote: »

Well it will be interesting to see what Biden's responses to Sanders questions are. Sanders took the very unusual step the other day at a press conference of basically saying exactly what he was going to ask Biden.

Throwing a feint

eire4

EltonJohn69 wrote: »

Anyone else think that after the Biden Sanders debate.... that democrats might have serious reservations about going with Biden... I feel he will really struggle if things get intense...

Well it will be interesting to see what Biden's responses to Sanders questions are. Sanders took the very unusual step the other day at a press conference of basically saying exactly what he was going to ask Biden.

EltonJohn69

Anyone else think that after the Biden Sanders debate.... that democrats might have serious reservations about going with Biden... I feel he will really struggle if things get intense...

sid waddell

sid waddell wrote: »

There's some bad news coming out of Ukraine for Biden. Zelensky has fired his cabinet, and the prosecutor general, a guy called Ruslan Ryaboshapka, who was widely regarded as good at his job and of high integrity.

It looks like there's a big changing of the guard to go in a much more pro-Russian and certainly pro-oligarch direction.

That means Ukraine is likely to co-operate in doing what the Russians and Trump want in terms of manufacturing fake "dirt" on Biden.

Flagged this a week ago.

Another thing to watch is how Trump uses the Coronavirus as cover for wider corruption/doing what Russia wants.

Is Ukraine About to Re-Open the Biden Investigation?

https://www.thedailybeast.com/is-ukraine-about-the-re-open-the-biden-investigation

looksee

Britain is excluded from the travel ban because it is "doing a good job in tackling the coronavirus"

Quote from Trump at a press conference apparently. Reported by CNN.

Poldsgold

Dow Jones at about 21,700 points... Trump is well off the pace Obama or Clinton set in their first terms and is failing badly on this front.

He wasn't even on the same pace prior to botching this crisis as badly as he has, but if this keeps up he may well even do worse than Bush's first term.

Trump will want a very quick turnaround, because as of now he is failing badly when it comes to the economy.

spacecoyote

Quin_Dub wrote: »

That's his "Gone by April when the weather improves" story line.

The fact that he continues to persist with this kind of stuff just indicates that he has likely been forced into some of the more significant actions against his own views.

Delusional

Article on 538 today talking about this, with experts basically saying...this might not be a seasonal issue, because no-one knows enough about it yet to say that with any degree of accuracy:

https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/flu-comes-back-every-year-will-coronavirus/

But, that's unlikely to make its way out of Trump's mouth any time soon.

Harry Palmr

I'll guess a bit of disaster capitalism will not hurt Trump and his circle one little bit

Sorry if this is already posted

Meanwhile the Donald may be ducked

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/03/12/world/coronavirus-news.html

Days after being near Trump and Pence, Brazilian official tests positive for the virus, reports say.

A senior Brazilian government official who visited Mar-a-Lago days ago, and was in close proximity to President Trump and Vice President Mike Pence, has tested positive for the new coronavirus, according to the several Brazilian news outlets.

Fábio Wajngarten, President Jair Bolsonaro’s communications chief, was at Mar-a-Lago, Mr. Trump’s oceanfront resort in Florida, as part of Brazilian government delegation. Members of that group dined with Mr. Trump on Saturday.

Mr. Wajngarten tested positive for the virus after returning home with flu-like symptoms. He is awaiting the results of a second test to confirm the diagnosis, according to the newspaper Estadão.

Quin_Dub

Water John wrote: »

Trump says it will be gone in 2 months, FFS. Not sure who he was quoting.

That's his "Gone by April when the weather improves" story line.

The fact that he continues to persist with this kind of stuff just indicates that he has likely been forced into some of the more significant actions against his own views.

Delusional

randomname2005

pixelburp wrote: »

And yet again, where is the journalistic unity to hound his attempts to wriggle out of a genuine question? He's literally shooting the messenger, dismissing his inadequate, flailing response to a potential national crisis. Ok, we don't see the follow-up to that short clip, but I've never got the sense the rest of the press corp ever bother backing up their slighted colleague...

They will have their press passes removed. At least being in there, making Trump say things and having them on record is better than just having his 'real news' journalists in there asking the easy questions.

Water John

Trump says it will be gone in 2 months, FFS. Not sure who he was quoting.

pixelburp

Leroy42 wrote: »

He has already got that covered.

Its all just fake news!

And yet again, where is the journalistic unity to hound his attempts to wriggle out of a genuine question? He's literally shooting the messenger, dismissing his inadequate, flailing response to a potential national crisis. Ok, we don't see the follow-up to that short clip, but I've never got the sense the rest of the press corp ever bother backing up their slighted colleague...

everlast75

Leroy42 wrote: »

He has already got that covered.

Its all just fake news!

https://twitter.com/yashar/status/1237842710674812928

His demeanour reminded me of Roger Stone in the video of his questioning.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k1G2hi6ODac

Leroy42

aloyisious wrote: »

As the MC, Don cant stick to the script in front of him, even when he's had it altered to his liking [the 1 hour delay in his self-announced start times] last night and he's reading the altered one from a teleprompter. He'll blame the fallout from his address on the speechwriters.

He has already got that covered.

Its all just fake news!

https://twitter.com/yashar/status/1237842710674812928

PropJoe10

Water John wrote: »

His address to the nation last night, finished him. Appalling by any basic standard.

BTW I am very familiar with Covid 19 not the 'foreign virus' as I've family on the front line.

The "foreign virus" line will work perfectly for him, seeing as he's been pushing the "foreigners are bad" concept since he started his campaign for 2016. Miller will be all over that, along with his sycophants on Fox. His speech last night was again nothing short of a national embarrassment. When the most powerful person on the planet can't even read effectively from a teleprompter, you know there's a serious problem.

aloyisious

Christy42 wrote: »

Did he have to announce he was stopping all trade with Europe? Certain measures are fair enough but it was a simple script to make it look like they were on top of things. He butchered it. The white house had to rush out a correction to contradict the big announcement to the nation.

Contrast to Leo. Leo has his flaws but he delivered the message he sought to. He said what they are actually doing and moved to reassure people. This is not to give Leo credit. This is the very basic stuff I expect from the head of a Nation. I used Leo purely because he is the only other address I heard. I am sure the vast, vast majority of world leaders managed the same basic steps.

That and the steps are not expected to do much given it is already assumed the US is sitting on a time bomb due to complete testing incompetence. He needed more tests. To stop Americans from spreading it to Americans as they already have it. There was nothing like that. Just blame someone else and hope the problem goes away as always

As the MC, Don cant stick to the script in front of him, even when he's had it altered to his liking [the 1 hour delay in his self-announced start times] last night and he's reading the altered one from a teleprompter. He'll blame the fallout from his address on the speechwriters.

Leroy42

We need to look at what the point of a public announcement such as what Trump did last night, or indeed Varadkar did this morning, is meant to do.

It is not, of course, meant to stop the crisis, or provide a solution. It is meant to get important information across to the nation, to correctly detail the severity of the issue and to try, in as much as possible in such a situation, to keep people calm.

By any measure, Trump's 'performance' yesterday missed on every level. From the many speaking mistakes he personally made, the air of uncomfortableness he exuded; the numerous misinformations he spouted meaning that his own staff, and he himself, had to rush out to try and correct it shortly afterwards. So rather than people coming away worrying but at least all worrying about the same things, afterwards people are left scratching their heads wondering if he meant this or that?; to the politicalisation by his repeated attempts to portray how great he has been.

Is there anyone that actually thinks that Trump did a good job last night?

pixelburp

I do wonder what the feeling on the ground is; while it's easy for us to see the lack of leadership in Trumps flailing, cavalier style, it does beg the question is this filtering down into the populous to any degree. Looking at the polling aggregation, his disapproval rate is ticking upwards again, but nothing so far that suggests a major swing towards dissatisfaction - nor one that could be extrapolated as relevant to Corona. Of course that can change, and it can take a while sometimes for stats to reflect current affairs. But then you look at those Fox News mouthpieces, desperately trying to make it the Democrat's fault, in all its farcical, melodramatic glory.

The helicopter view though is just ... well, it's somewhere between mayhem and farce really. The US President drives policy and agenda much more than other heads of state, not to mention the ability to steer the cultural mood or zeitgeist. In all those aspects, Trumps behaviour has been exposed as that of the flailing spoofer we've long suspected, finally showing how out of his depth he is in the hotsteat. Perhaps to those holding out for fairness' sake, he is showing just what happens when a man singularly incapable of delegation or planning is in charge of a genuine, quantifiable threat to ordinary life. It's easy to talk big about ISIS as the intangible foreign threat, one suitable for big gestures or bombing, it's another thing to be the eye of the storm of a threat to the functional stability of a nation. Tossing paper towels at the masses just ain't gonna cut it.

Often those least suited for normal leadership excel in crisis situations; Winston Churchill being the standout example there, exactly the leader the UK needed in ww2, but unceremoniously bumped out in peacetime. I had figured the state could survive the empty swagger of Donald Trump in peace time, but faced with a genuine - potential - crisis, Trump is no Churchill. More like... I dunno, Paul Reynaud.

Christy42

greenfield21 wrote: »

Are you for real, haven't you heard of the virus yet? Look at the measures other countries are taking and for good reason.

Did he have to announce he was stopping all trade with Europe? Certain measures are fair enough but it was a simple script to make it look like they were on top of things. He butchered it. The white house had to rush out a correction to contradict the big announcement to the nation.

Contrast to Leo. Leo has his flaws but he delivered the message he sought to. He said what they are actually doing and moved to reassure people. This is not to give Leo credit. This is the very basic stuff I expect from the head of a Nation. I used Leo purely because he is the only other address I heard. I am sure the vast, vast majority of world leaders managed the same basic steps.

That and the steps are not expected to do much given it is already assumed the US is sitting on a time bomb due to complete testing incompetence. He needed more tests. To stop Americans from spreading it to Americans as they already have it. There was nothing like that. Just blame someone else and hope the problem goes away as always

Nody

greenfield21 wrote: »

Are you for real, haven't you heard of the virus yet? Look at the measures other countries are taking and for good reason.

Yes; but unlike the USA the other markets have leaders to take decisive action to make a difference; Trump is floundering around and refusing to actually take measures that would make a difference. For example many states offer now to pay social payments to stay at home if affected, Trump does not. A lot of countries do massive testing of everyone to catch people early before it spreads. Trump has managed 6000 tests to date which is what Netherlands does in a day, South Korea bless their socks are at over 10000 tests a day. Did you see any announcement from Trump of more testing? Paying people to stay at home if sick to avoid it spreading? No? Well that's Trump floundering and scaring the stock markets due to shown incompetence and lack of action to deal with the virus.

Water John

His address to the nation last night, finished him. Appalling by any basic standard.

BTW I am very familiar with Covid 19 not the 'foreign virus' as I've family on the front line.