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Random EV thoughts.....

Old diesel

The main motors forum has the motors chat thread for the little things one would like to say but might not justify a thread.

Thought it might be an idea for here re hybrids and EV stuff.....

To kick off - i wonder if a new measurement for EVs might be assuming a start trip at 100 percent......

A how much range do you get with a 15 minute stop.

With a 350 kw charging a Porsche Tayman might do very well with getting on for 400 miles...

A Leaf 62 not so good.

Obviously where a car can do more then 50 kw charging we would need both a 50 kw and a whatever the cars top rate is figure*.

*IF chargers are available

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redcup342

kanuseeme wrote: »

you would have to do nearly 250 000 km to recover the cost difference between the kona ev and kona diesel @ 1.35 euro a liter doing 4.5/100km

Yeah ... but if you drove the Kona EV for a month and then went back to a Kona Diesel automatic with similar spec you wouldn't be happy.

You can save X amount of money loads of ways.

I pay extra to rent an EV because it's nicer to drive, even if it's the same price or more expensive to run than a petrol/diesel/LPG/CNG alternative.

kanuseeme

Thinking about this today, something should be worth noting is that at the end of life of most EV's, the battery would have value as a power bank.

I would agree on spec and being nicer to drive, but I can see why EV sales are still low

mp3guy

kanuseeme wrote: »

Thinking about this today, something should be worth noting is that at the end of life of most EV's, the battery would have value as a power bank.

Are there even any companies doing this? Taking old EV batteries and making them useful to someone?

kanuseeme

I saw a video on a car manufacturer using their new battery packs to reduce their peak power demand while testing/storing them cannot remember which, I have seen it mentioned here a few times about packs from crashed Tesla cars being reused for solar storage.

Nissan https://www.irishtimes.com/business/energy-and-resources/nissan-will-offer-home-battery-for-electric-storage-1.3965308

unkel

mp3guy wrote: »

Are there even any companies doing this? Taking old EV batteries and making them useful to someone?

No need. The modules from any scrapped EVs sell like hotcakes for very high prices on eBay. Going rate for a single 5kWh Tesla battery module is over USD1000 (the early cars have about 17 of these modules). That's more than it costs Tesla to produce one brand new. Shortage means high prices!!!

People have their own use for them. In mobile homes / campervans, as power walls in their normal homes, for off grid cabins / holiday homes, to power eletric scooters or even convert their own (classic) car.

[Deleted User]

It's not only the batteries, plenty of companies deICEing classic cars from crashed EVs.

timsey tiger

mp3guy wrote: »

Are there even any companies doing this? Taking old EV batteries and making them useful to someone?

Renault are doing it with the batteries that they lease out. There is a company called second life that features on fully charged doing it.

air

I've been using some Gen1 Leaf modules for a power system for over 5 years.
I've also disassembled 2 full PHEV packs.
OEM EV batteries in general are of higher quality than anything else readily available to consumers.
They're well packaged mechanically and it's generally trivial to assemble them into packs of whatever voltage suits the application.

I would suspect that the likes of a Leaf pack at low SOH may even retain a high percentage of it's original capacity when used at the low charge and discharge rates more typical of stationary applications.

Other than crash damaged modules or burned vechicles I suspect that 100% of ex EV packs find a second life in another application.
This further supports the sustainability argument for EVs of course.

NIMAN

Wouldn't it be great if an EV had 2 charging ports?

Means then you could drive into/reverse into charging spots.

Sabre Man

NIMAN wrote: »

Wouldn't it be great if an EV had 2 charging ports?

Means then you could drive into/reverse into charging spots.

The Taycan has charge ports on both sides.

unkel

NIMAN wrote: »

Wouldn't it be great if an EV had 2 charging ports?

Eh, no. After over 100 years of using cars, we already know what best practice is for the point of fueling cars. Somewhere behind the passenger door on either side of the car. We don't need 2 or 3 or 20 charging ports. Just the one is fine.

NIMAN

unkel wrote: »

Eh, no. After over 100 years of using cars, we already know what best practice is for the point of fueling cars. Somewhere behind the passenger door on either side of the car.

You're probably right but the Leaf forces you to park differently (unless you wanna carry around a 5metre cable minimum).

MJohnston

The lack of standardisation in charging port locations is a giant cluster**** just waiting to happen.

unkel

Not just charging port locations, but also charger locations. We all know this is the best system, we've used it for many, many decades.

And NOT this.

mp3guy

unkel wrote: »

Not just charging port locations, but also charger locations. We all know this is the best system, we've used it for many, many decades.
And NOT this.

Not sure you can extrapolate. ICE refueling takes a minute, current EVs take an order of magnitude longer. Very quick turn over at pumps, cars faced this way and that, weaving in and out of other cars there, with no one staying particularly long. EVs are closer to fully parked cars that should be out of the way.

redcup342

mp3guy wrote: »

Not sure you can extrapolate. ICE refueling takes a minute, current EVs take an order of magnitude longer. Very quick turn over at pumps, cars faced this way and that, weaving in and out of other cars there, with no one staying particularly long. EVs are closer to fully parked cars that should be out of the way.

Fastned-solar-powered-EV-charger-Netherlands-889x599.jpg

I think he means just having shelter over the vehicle.

He's 100% correct though, in Germany many of the chargers are in the dodgy rapey part of the motorway rest stop, down where all the truckers are parked up next to the bushes where they go for a pee in the middle of the night.

mp3guy

redcup342 wrote: »

I think he means just having shelter over the vehicle.

He's 100% correct though, in Germany many of the chargers are in the dodgy rapey part of the motorway rest stop, down where all the truckers are parked up next to the bushes where they go for a pee in the middle of the night.

This I do agree with. I'm lucky not to live in a bad area but I can imagine there's plenty of dodgy spots around Ireland I wouldn't feel too comfortable leaving my shiny new car tucked away in.

MJohnston

unkel wrote: »

Not just charging port locations, but also charger locations. We all know this is the best system, we've used it for many, many decades.

And NOT this.

I'm sure the port location mess is actually a big part of why chargers are positioned so badly (hence the cluster****).

Now, in fairness, the chargers could be positioned anywhere if ESB had equipped them with petrol pump style cables, but they haven't really thought much through.

The newer Ionity hubs look much more practical, with the cable exiting the charging point at the top (a good metre above most cars) and being retractable. Though I don't know the full length that is possible with those.

Stealthirl

Took a family friend to look at a Kona and e-Soul yesterday and the sales experience between the 2 couldn't have been more different.
Hyundai we were greeted with a smile and a friendly "can i help you" from a young salesman and then for the next 20 min or so had his full attention and shown round the car ect, sat down to work out a price and offered Tea/coffee.
Walked into Kia, left to look around the car with no one approaching us, ended up asking for a salesperson. Older man says it's basically what we have here and the price is €39k and basically gave off the vibe of not having any interest in making a sale.

Going out today she had more interested in the Soul but after the experience shes now going with a Kona

graememk

Stealthirl wrote: »

Took a family friend to look at a Kona and e-Soul yesterday and the sales experience between the 2 couldn't have been more different.
Hyundai we were greeted with a smile and a friendly "can i help you" from a young salesman and then for the next 20 min or so had his full attention and shown round the car ect, sat down to work out a price and offered Tea/coffee.
Walked into Kia, left to look around the car with no one approaching us, ended up asking for a salesperson. Older man says it's basically what we have here and the price is €39k and basically gave off the vibe of not having any interest in making a sale.

Going out today she had more interested in the Soul but after the experience shes now going with a Kona

Initial impressions are huge, a simple greeting and a little chat, goes a long way.

Even if you didnt have any questions the salesman can always say " I'm right over there if you have any questions" etc etc

When I was looking I had a drive in the phev niro, and also the new 62kwh leaf "to show me what a real electric car can do"

They had an e soul there too, but wasn't interested in it myself.

mike_2009

I did pop down to my local Kia deal last year to ask about the E-Niro but the sales rep was so fed up getting calls for something he didn't have / couldn't get stock for he ranted a bit at me. I asked how much the service was to complete the visit (from the service manager who was nicer!) and then left and haven't been back!! Not a place I ever want to set foot in again as a result. Still like the E-Niro design though!

Black_Knight

mike_2009 wrote: »

I did pop down to my local Kia deal last year to ask about the E-Niro but the sales rep was so fed up getting calls for something he didn't have / couldn't get stock for he ranted a bit at me. I asked how much the service was to complete the visit (from the service manager who was nicer!) and then left and haven't been back!! Not a place I ever want to set foot in again as a result. Still like the E-Niro design though!

Really? It's style is probably one of my least favourite of the EVs out there. Only interested in it because 1) plenty of range that i'd almost never have to public charge, 2) it's got boot space, 3) it's "affordable". Though second hand Model Ss seem to tick all the above boxes + style and more affordable.

KCross

Stealthirl wrote: »

Took a family friend to look at a Kona and e-Soul yesterday and the sales experience between the 2 couldn't have been more different.
Hyundai we were greeted with a smile and a friendly "can i help you" from a young salesman and then for the next 20 min or so had his full attention and shown round the car ect, sat down to work out a price and offered Tea/coffee.
Walked into Kia, left to look around the car with no one approaching us, ended up asking for a salesperson. Older man says it's basically what we have here and the price is €39k and basically gave off the vibe of not having any interest in making a sale.

Going out today she had more interested in the Soul but after the experience shes now going with a Kona

When it comes to EV's alot of salesmen dont have the knowledge or the incentive to sell it to you. For most of us early adoptors we know more than they do as we've researched it beforehand and got feedback from real users and shared amongst ourselves here. That sharing is worth a ton more than anything a salesman is going to give you as he is ultimately only looking out for himself.

I wouldnt change my mind on what EV I'm buying based on my interaction with one salesman. Surely you should buy the car that best fits your needs and gives you the biggest smile on your face.... just because one guy in a dealership didnt care wouldnt make me change my mind on that.... you wont even need to deal with him after the sale as it will be the service manager you will be dealing with or just go to another dealer for servicing.

Just my take on it.

mp3guy

KCross wrote: »

When it comes to EV's alot of salesmen dont have the knowledge or the incentive to sell it to you. For most of us early adoptors we know more than they do as we've researched it beforehand and got feedback from real users and shared amongst ourselves here. That sharing is worth a ton more than anything a salesman is going to give you as he is ultimately only looking out for himself.

I wouldnt change my mind on what EV I'm buying based on my interaction with one salesman. Surely you should buy the car that best fits your needs and gives you the biggest smile on your face.... just because one guy in a dealership didnt care wouldnt make me change my mind on that.... you wont even need to deal with him after the sale as it will be the service manager you will be dealing with or just go to another dealer for servicing.

Just my take on it.

I'd probably do the same, or at least go to a different dealer for the same car. Why give them a sale if they're failing to provide a high level of customer service? Cars ain't cheap at the end of the day, as expensive as the best of the best in ultimate 1st class air fare tickets, why expect a lower standard of face to face customer interaction?

AndyBoBandy

When I went out to the Tesla showroom back in January I was approached by a sales rep immediately, and he stayed with us for about 30 minutes or so, answering every question we had, and explaining the car to us. Made us feel like the most important people in the showroom at that moment.

If I'm in looking at a €50k car, I want to feel important, and I did.

Ordered one a week later.

Old diesel

KCross wrote: »

When it comes to EV's alot of salesmen dont have the knowledge or the incentive to sell it to you. For most of us early adoptors we know more than they do as we've researched it beforehand and got feedback from real users and shared amongst ourselves here. That sharing is worth a ton more than anything a salesman is going to give you as he is ultimately only looking out for himself.

I wouldnt change my mind on what EV I'm buying based on my interaction with one salesman. Surely you should buy the car that best fits your needs and gives you the biggest smile on your face.... just because one guy in a dealership didnt care wouldnt make me change my mind on that.... you wont even need to deal with him after the sale as it will be the service manager you will be dealing with or just go to another dealer for servicing.

Just my take on it.

She's spending 40 k - you expect the salesman to at least pretend to care.

At that moment when he's not bothered - the customers view of Kia is influenced by the Salesman. Hes representing the brand at that moment and he's dropping the ball.

I can see why the customers enthusiasm for a Kia fell flat as a pancake when the rep didn't engage.

I just can't motivate myself to try pursuade a reluctant salesman to the table.

Remember too that to Stealth IRLs friend - she possibly just wants an EV that meets her needs. She may have liked the look of the Soul but she can work happily with an alternative.

Remember she was still into the Kona enough to go into to the Hyundai dealer. Non enthusiasts are easier turned off by dealer disinterest.

KCross

Old diesel wrote: »

She's spending 40 k - you expect the salesman to at least pretend to care.

At that moment when he's not bothered - the customers view of Kia is influenced by the Salesman. Hes representing the brand at that moment and he's dropping the ball.

I can see why the customers enthusiasm for a Kia fell flat as a pancake when the rep didn't engage.

I just can't motivate myself to try pursuade a reluctant salesman to the table.

Remember too that to Stealth IRLs friend - she possibly just wants an EV that meets her needs. She may have liked the look of the Soul but she can work happily with an alternative.

Remember she was still into the Kona enough to go into to the Hyundai dealer. Non enthusiasts are easier turned off by dealer disinterest.

Dont get me wrong, I'm not excusing the salesmans lack of interest at all. Shame on him (and his employer and Kia Ireland) and it will ultimately hurt his pay packet so he's a fool to boot.

All Im saying is that I would buy the car that best suits me, I dont really care what the salesman does or says... i dont really see him as a salesman at all but just the guy that fills in the paperwork to order it once I've researched and decided for myself.

Buying a car partly because you got a smile and a free coffee isnt the way to go, imo... but thats just my view... each to their own... if somone wants the red carpet rolled out and that influences the decision to buy one car over another than have at it.

ELM327

I much prefer the Tesla method of click and collect, I don't need to fund commission for someone to tell us what we want

redcup342

Interesting Concept at E-World, would be interesting for Markets/Shopping Centers that don't want to sink a load of money to install rapid chargers:

https://www.fleeteurope.com/en/new-energies/europe/features/power-banks-make-fast-charging-accessible-fleets

Topping up the Drive Booster can be done with a regular industrial 3-phase power connection with 16 to 63 ampere (between 11kW and 43kW) and that’s its main advantage. Owners of such a power-bank will therefore pay a lot less to their utility. Also, the power supplied is 100% green, Eon assures.

That's a good point I think, being able to use existing industrial 3 phase would be a good selling point for companies with fleets.

Stealthirl

Well the sales man would have zero impact on me as if i was buying tomorrow id get a Soul over the Kona still. But as said above some people can be put off a brand by the salesperson.

I could easily see her being persuaded out of an EV only for she's been talking with me and experienced with my Leaf 24. Up untill then she was going to get a Jeep renegade :rolleyes: