The key elements include six high speed charging hubs on motorways capable of charging eight vehicles simultaneously; 16 high speed charging hubs capable of charging four vehicles simultaneously; additional high power chargers at 34 current 50 kW locations; upgrading over 50 22 kW chargers to 50 kW, and replacing up to 264 locations with 528 charge points at the pre-existing pilot grade of 22 kW to next generation high reliability models.
Mickeroo wrote: » You don't need a rapid charger if it's a residential parking space, it would essentially be a home charger.
Mickeroo wrote: » A rapid charging "hub" near residential areas like the ones in Dundee would be a good option for people who can't charge overnight though.
PickYourName wrote: » I honestly can’t see that working. At the moment, if you live in a high-density housing area, the only viable option for owning any sort of car is if you have somewhere to park it overnight: not just some nights, or most, but a guarantee every night. If you want these people to switch to EVs, if overnight charging is the model, you have to offer them the same guarantee. The only way to do that is to have a very high density of chargers. If you have a small number and you reserve them for EVs, you’d have to keep the number finely in balance with the demand, which would be next to impossible to achieve. Note: I don’t actually have a guarantee of any particular spot at the moment (I have a resident’s permit), but in reality I always manage to get a spot within (say) 100m of where I live. Unless I had a similar guarantee to find an EV charger, there’s zero chance I’d get an EV if I was dependent on overnight charging.
PickYourName wrote: » That sounds like exactly what's needed, encouraging the very people where the benefit is highest (i.e. car users in high density areas, where pollution is also a major problem) to move to EVs. Compare and contrast with the situation here where those people currenly have no solution, and some are even arguing they are put to the back of the queue.....
PickYourName wrote: » Although that would suit me just fine, I'd use some metric such as "within 2kms of all (high density) housing" rather than excluding as far out as the canals; there's a lot of housing within the canals (maybe that's effectively the same - I haven't checked?). The point is they simply don't exist at the moment.
PickYourName wrote: » Are they rapid chargers? If not, it's not a scalable solution, unless (nearly) every lamp-post has them, which doesn't strike me as very cost-effective.
MJohnston wrote: » Another thing I'll say - by the time demand for EVs picks up to a significant proportion, battery (and charging) technology will have advanced way beyond what we have now, potentially making the idea of regular charging completely obsolete. It's not hard to imagine a near-future where EVs have magnitudes greater range than even the highest capacity petrol cars.
Kramer wrote: » There's even talk of a new breakthrough technology from some small Japanese manufacturer..................what was it called again............. Oh yeah, "self charging". I think Toyota might be developing it .
Mickeroo wrote: » Shows what a council can achieve with a bit of competence and vision.
MJohnston wrote: » You're thinking with Petrol Brain here, I'm afraid! The EV model of "fueling" operates on a very different wavelength, and I think if anyone expects to be able to rapid charge at their home, they are very much in for a huge disappointment.
PickYourName wrote: » Nope, I understand completely. See my previous post https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=112660082&postcount=317 I was making the point that fitting the odd street light (slow) charging does nothing to solve the problem of not having home charging.
PickYourName wrote: » They’ve been talking about that for decades and still no sign of an order-of-magnitude breakthrough - it's mostly been incremental improvements.
MJohnston wrote: » Does nothing to solve that problem? Really? Hmm, we'll just have to very much disagree here. It seems to me like you're trying to invent an unsolvable problem that operates on a different baseline to ICE cars. Does everybody living inside the canals of Dublin have a petrol station outside their front door? No, they don't, so why expect that fast-charging infrastructure should operate to a higher standard than that?
MJohnston wrote: » Just to put these "incremental" improvements in context - the i3's range has increased by 200% in the last 5 years...and that's from a company that wasn't even really trying, by their own admission, with EVs. Can't wait for the next 5 years of incremental improvements!
PickYourName wrote: » Having a network of fast chargers analogous to petrol stations (indeed, many likely to be co-located) is exactly what I said would solve the problem for those without home charging. It's analogous, but not identical: you can use the much-reduced infrastructure required by chargers as opposed to petrol/diesel sales to get around the problem of it taking longer, by having them in places where cars are otherwise spending similar period of time (e.g. when supermarket shopping and the like).
MJohnston wrote: » So to go back to what the original disagreement was about - while the EV market is still growing, there has to be a compromise about where new charging infrastructure is placed. You seemed to disagree with the idea that they should be concentrated on main roadways, but I don't think you really disagree with that on closer inspection.
innrain wrote: » there is a new 50kW charger at ESB East Wall labelled RAPTION-0001 ESB ecars Test Lab, Model name Circontrol Raption 50 I hope they use 4 digits in labeling for good reason
PickYourName wrote: » No, indeed I don't. I've consistently said that both should be addressed, not prioritise one over the other as others have suggested. They've also suggested we don't even need any in Dublin: I completely disagree with this, as it means there's no solution for the bulk of people who have no access to home or workplace charging. Put the rapid chargers where they are needed: convenient to those with no possibility of home charging and adjacent to the main motorway and trunk road network for those on long jourmeys.
Black_Knight wrote: » I was saying, though perhaps not clearly, that priority should go to main roads, not Dublin city centre. Eventually the "no home chargers" drivers will need to be addressed.
PickYourName wrote: » Thanks - nice to be placed at the back of your particular queue......
MJohnston wrote: » ESB should fund route chargers first and foremost, I think that's a pretty smart priority to sway towards.
liamog wrote: » ...... We have a barebones interurban network today, we do not yet have a network for the place where the switch to EV will have the largest health effect (our major settlements).
irishgrover wrote: » It's difficult to get the balance right. It's difficult to cover all the use cases. However the reality (IMHO) is that the correct priority has to be inter-urban before urban. A lot of people are saying that investing in turning Dublin EV would have a greater dividend (I agree), from an emissions pov, air quality pov etc etc. A lot of people also say that Dublin EV drivers (or potential drivers) rarely leave Dublin (this is possibly true) People say we should concentrate filling Dublin with FCPs because most people live there, and most rarely leave, and many don't have home charging, or don't have time to use a destination charger before a business meeting, or whatever... However the reality is, even if Dublin has a FCP at the end of every street, that no more that 2% of those Dublin drivers, who rarely leave Dublin, would ever in a million years consider buying an EV if they could not goto Cork, Limerick, Galway, Donegal or wherever else.
PickYourName wrote: » Point taken, but my (different) opinion is that there is no need to prioritise one over the other; they are both currently inadaquate. The lack of urban charging making EV usage by those without home or workplace charging completely impractical. I wouldn't purchase an EV at the moment because of it; the question mark of availability of chargers to cover very occasional longer jourmeys I do wouldn't put me off.
irishgrover wrote: » Government (national or local) should be much more active in literally forcing introduction of charging infrastructure.
