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Ireland Team Talk XI: Team of nervoUS MOD warning Post 1

[Deleted User]

Continued from here
https://touch.boards.ie/thread/2057953711/251
All Ireland Senior XV related talk here.

MOD: Bear in mind this thread is starting during the World Cup window and the zero tolerance policy is in force. Trolling will be rewarded with an instant ban. For the duration of the tournament any mention of Zebo in this thread will not be permitted, it is just dragging current Ireland squad talk off topic.

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Paul Smeenus

clsmooth wrote: »

Bit harsh seeing as he was one of the few who put their hands up and actually left a mark in a well beaten pack. Quite easy to look even better when the other 7 forwards are getting the upper hand.

Very true. He was our best forward. But all three of those other lads were better.

stephen_n

AbusesToilets wrote: »

Well done, solid contribution

Just about as solid as yours, Furlong was absolutely excellent against Wales, he was also good against Scotland. So your post was pointless.

Clegg

I think Paul has notifications on for when someone praises Ryan.

AbusesToilets

stephen_n wrote: »

Just about as solid as yours, Furlong was absolutely excellent against Wales, he was also good against Scotland. So your post was pointless.

He's been far from excellent. Carrying game has been poor, he's had inconsistencies in the scrum. He isn't a patch on the player he was in Australia or the GS team

awec

Clegg wrote: »

I think Paul has notifications on for when someone praises Ryan.

In fairness it's a bit daft to be praising Ryan when he was a key component of a pack that got absolutely destroyed in every single facet of the game.

"Well done James, you were all absolutely hopeless, but you were a bit less hopeless because you enthusiastically melted a few rucks."

stephen_n

clsmooth wrote: »

Bit harsh seeing as he was one of the few who put their hands up and actually left a mark in a well beaten pack. Quite easy to look even better when the other 7 forwards are getting the upper hand.

Your missing the tribal element, any praise for Ryan reflects badly on his provincial boy toy. That’s just not acceptable.

stephen_n

AbusesToilets wrote: »

He's been far from excellent. Carrying game has been poor, he's had inconsistencies in the scrum. He isn't a patch on the player he was in Australia or the GS team

In your opinion, in the opinion of most and most analysts his form is right back where it was. Unless of course you’re a Welsh scrum coach.

AbusesToilets

stephen_n wrote: »

In your opinion, in the opinion of most and most analysts his form is right back where it was. Unless of course you’re a Welsh scrum coach.

Guess my eyes must be playing tricks on me so

stephen_n

AbusesToilets wrote: »

Guess my eyes must be playing tricks on me so

I would suggest opening them, it generally helps.

Clegg

awec wrote: »

In fairness it's a bit daft to be praising Ryan when he was a key component of a pack that got absolutely destroyed in every single facet of the game.

"Well done James, you were all absolutely hopeless, but you were a bit less hopeless because you enthusiastically melted a few rucks."

I don't know. You can absolutely acknowledge that as a pack we failed to match up to the opposition, bit also single out some players who performed well. There were admittedly very few.who actually did.

Paul Smeenus

Clegg wrote: »

I don't know. You can absolutely acknowledge that as a pack we failed to match up to the opposition, bit also single out some players who performed well.

You can, absolutely. But if you start with "how good was he... Can't wait to see him play for the Lions!", you can expect other posters to ask for a bit of sobriety and perspective.

Clegg

We should persist with Stockdale for the moment. Especially if the replacement is Earls. Someone who has also struggled for form in the last 12. The former has huge potential and has played well in general this season. It's not like dropping him will make.him magically better at defending. But there's serious work.that needs to be done at Ulster and Ireland. In 2018 his defensive lapses could be excused due to inexperience. But he's seasoned enough now that he should be better.

clsmooth

Paul Smeenus wrote: »

You can, absolutely. But if you start with "how good was he... Can't wait to see him play for the Lions!", you can expect other posters to ask for a bit of sobriety and perspective.

He was very impressive (IMO) in a team that was well beaten up front and one of the few that fronted up physically on a day when we’re dominated. He showed a bit of niggle/edge today which I feel is something that will add to his game. He’s been constantly impressive for the last two years. I don’t think it’s a stretch to say he will be competing for a place in the Lions second row next year and that him and Itoje would offer a very exciting partnership. Apologies for my perceived excitement at the prospect.

Paul Smeenus

You don't need to apologise. I just disagree that he was "very impressive" today. He was Ireland's best forward, which today was a bit of a "tallest dwarf" accolade. And when you disagree with a rave review with James Ryan, no-one is capable of just letting it go.

He will mostly likely deservedly be in the mix for the Lions, but he hasn't put in a performance like Itoje or Lawes when they banjaxed NZ. And they were better than him today.

[Deleted User]

mfceiling wrote: »

Doris, Kelleher, Cooney, L'Armour, Deegan, Conway.

Not enough?

No.

Dubinusa

Ryan was very good. He gave everything and was our standout.
Maybe Jones is onto some thing with the additional locks involved?
I wonder if a pack like this;
Healy
Herring
Furlong
Dillane
Ryan
Henderson
Vdf
Stander
Could negate England physical dominance.

BoardsMember

Clegg wrote: »

We should persist with Stockdale for the moment. Especially if the replacement is Earls. Someone who has also struggled for form in the last 12. The former has huge potential and has played well in general this season. It's not like dropping him will make.him magically better at defending. But there's serious work.that needs to be done at Ulster and Ireland. In 2018 his defensive lapses could be excused due to inexperience. But he's seasoned enough now that he should be better.

I dont agree with this at all. He's been a defensive liability for some time. He's poor in the air. He needs to do the basics perfectly or at least extremely well to play international rugby. He got away with a lot for quite a while because he was scoring tries. We cant afford him now those have largely dried up. He wont get within an asses roar of the team if this form continues, and certainly not when Lowe becomes qualified.

PhlegmyMoses

Paul Smeenus wrote: »

You don't need to apologise. I just disagree that he was "very impressive" today. He was Ireland's best forward, which today was a bit of a "tallest dwarf" accolade. And when you disagree with a rave review with James Ryan, no-one is capable of just letting it go.

He will mostly likely deservedly be in the mix for the Lions, but he hasn't put in a performance like Itoje or Lawes when they banjaxed NZ. And they were better than him today.

I think you have a wee bit of a chip on your shoulder about Ryan. It may have something to do with Henderson or something said about him the past, haven't worked it out yet.

ionadnapóca

England are powerful but lacking imagination and guile.
France are powerful and have imagination and guile.
Unfortunately I don’t see any changes to personnel that will prevent us loosing in Paris.
Unless there is a considerable change in attitude and big improvements in the halfbacks performance Ireland will get dismantled by France. +20

Unfortunately this team is in complete free fall and is a classic case of inner failure after achieving success.
They are still suffering from a lack of real competition for their places and capitulate when put under real pressure after 12 months of confidence destroying failure.

Bazzo

Clegg wrote: »

Back to where we started for some players after the World Cup exit. The players we had doubts over; PoM, Murray, Sexton etc all had stinkers.

On Poms struggles, we have options. We know he isn't an automatic first choice anymore as he was dropped at the start of the tournament. Doris deserves another run out. Cooney is the form scrum half in the country and can slot in no bother. Sexton is still our best 10 tho. He starts purely be default.

Sexton was absolutely awful today. If that performance doesn't deserve dropping then I don't know what does.

AbusesToilets wrote: »

Aki was not good today. He killed multiple moves by headlessly running into contact. He was completely contained by the English, never threatened a break or an offload.

Presumably Henderson will come back in for the French match, if nothing else. Furlong did nothing much, bar give away a scrum penalty at one point . He's our strongest player, and I can't say I noticed him once making a carry or dominat tackle.

If you looked at the match today and thought "Aki is the problem" then you need to re-evaluate. He was miles better than Henshaw who was basically anonymous for the majority of the match.

Conversely to a lot of what people seem to think I thought O'Mahony and Stander played reasonably well but Van Der Flier unfortunately didn't play very well.

Dubinusa

BoardsMember wrote: »

I dont agree with this at all. He's been a defensive liability for some time. He's poor in the air. He needs to do the basics perfectly or at least extremely well to play international rugby. He got away with a lot for quite a while because he was scoring tries. We cant afford him now those have largely dried up. He wont get within an asses roar of the team if this form continues, and certainly not when Lowe becomes qualified.

Lowe is also poor defensively. He falls off tackles and is not too good under high ball.

AbusesToilets

If Farrell wants to pursue an attacking style, then he should pick a team that supports that. Dynamic carriers, who can use the ball effectively. Have some shape to the attacking structure. The team we've fielded isn't seemingly designed to do anything well. We're not running over teams, and not passing well enough to get around.

lawrencesummers

Anyone else think henshaw was lucky today when he hit May late? If you think it was late or not, and many here probably won’t because of provincial bias it Looked like a clear no arms tackle.

Sexton was abysmal today, he’s not captain material and nobody is getting a run to put pressure on him.

Be nice to see Cooney and Byrne start against Italy with Murray and sexton on the bench.

Dubinusa

Just watched it for the 3rd time. It gets worse with each viewing! I think on the rewatch several things jump out.
1. Our line speed was poor. I think we missed Ringrose here. England were able to move the ball with little pressure.
2. We didn't compete at line outside. Bizarre not to try spoil their throw ins.
3. On the kick through, I thought that we didn't know our roles. I think Sexton interfered with Larmour for the 1st. Stockdale expected the ball to go out over the end line, I think.
4. Fitness. It is jarring to see how slow we were to get to the breakdown. England were so much quicker.
5. As always, inability to improvise or change up! Like last year's match, we were like deer in the headlights. Not once did we try to grubber that England pack into moving back and applying pressure. England didn't have to turn around and chase a ball!
That's what jumped out for me.
A very poor performance indeed, with individual performances really below the level required.
In August, after being annihilated, Ross Byrne was shat on for his performance. I would say that Sexton was worse. Last February after England hosed us, and after August and then thrice, we failed to apply any sense of a game winning plan.
Farrell was involved in all 3!
So where to from here? Do any of the lads that missed out make a difference?
Beirne? Could be the answer at 6. I don't think he's good enough to be an international lock.
Nordi? Couldn't have made a difference today, imo.
Conan? Yes, I think he could certainly make a difference. A big fast skillful 8.
Leavy? If healthy definitely!
Ruddock? I think he would have done very well today!
Time has run out for Murray, imo. He's not at the required level. I just don't know how much time they can give him? He's awful.
Sexton is on the downward path. He's not world class anymore! Who succeeds him? We won't know if their ass is glued to the bench!
Stockdale should be benched. I can see Baloucoune coming in for him this summer.
Aki is good! But McCloskey offers more grunt and physicality.
Ringrose is the best 13 we have. Easily
Larmour was ok. He is worth waiting on. He can turn a game on it's head.
Farrell has tough choices to make. Especially v France. Today's effort was woeful and it's becoming a viral type effect. Too many crap performances over a span of a year!

kilns

Dubinusa wrote: »

Ryan was very good. He gave everything and was our standout.
Maybe Jones is onto some thing with the additional locks involved?
I wonder if a pack like this;
Healy
Herring
Furlong
Dillane
Ryan
Henderson
Vdf
Stander
Could negate England physical dominance.

If you wanted one man to help negate English physical dominance, Farrell left him out of the entire squad and that was Ruddock. If its horses for courses and you need to match England then there is no place for POM and VDF as they dont match up physically.

lawrencesummers

After watching the game again sexton should (but won’t) be dropped and isn’t suited to the captaincy. He’s fine on front foot but not the man for a dirty day in the trenches. He will put in a big performance now against Italy and it will cover up the obvious flaws in his game and temperament.

It’s time his Replacement was given a chance, at some stage before RWC 2023 we need to decide on who the next first choice OH is and Byrne has had very little game time for Ireland and his performances over the last 2 years deserve more.

All of the bench players from the England game should be starting against Italy.

Podge_irl

lawrencesummers wrote: »

It’s time his Replacement was given a chance, at some stage before RWC 2023 we need to decide on who the next first choice OH is and Byrne has had very little game time for Ireland and his performances over the last 2 years deserve more.

The outhalf in RWC 2023 is very, very unlikely to be Burns or Byrne who are our only other options right now.

whatawaster

Alan Quinlan made some good points on Newstalk this morning. We didn't kick enough yesterday and often persisted with trying to overplay with slow ball.

So much for having two of the most experienced half-backs in world rugby, if they consistently make poor decisions.

Murray is the easiest call - he should be dropped immediately. Both Cooney and McGrath are playing much better rugby than him and deserve a chance.

I agree that, based on his Leinster form, Sexton is still the best OH we have, but he simply is not performing for Ireland. At some point, Ross Byrne needs to be given a chance. Arguments about his long-term potential go out the window right now. Sexton has not played well for Ireland for a long time. Needs a kick up the backside.

For Italy:

----Kilcoyne

Kelleher----Porter----

Ryan----Dillane

---Deegan----Doris

Van Der Flier--

Cooney----Byrne

Aki

Henshaw

---Conway

Larmour

Earls-

kilns

Podge_irl wrote: »

The outhalf in RWC 2023 is very, very unlikely to be Burns or Byrne who are our only other options right now.

Who would it be? Carberry is very injury prone

Former Former

kilns wrote: »

Who would it be? Carberry is very injury prone

Someone who's not first or even second choice at their province yet. The current crop of out halves aren't of the required quality.

Same at scrum half.