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What's the most convincing piece of data showing climate change is real?

Computer Science Student

I don't want any of the usual hyperbole diagrams or quoting statistics on emissions, greenhouse gases etc.

I just want to see that the climate's change in temperature can be shown to be changing in a statistically significant way.

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Silentcorner

The history of the planet?

Computer Science Student

Silentcorner wrote: »

The history of the planet?

What? The climate has always changed. So what I am asking for is to show that the current changes are significant.

HeidiHeidi

It being nearly 20 degrees Celsius in Antarctica this week?

Jonybgud

Computer Science Student wrote: »

I don't want any of the usual hyperbole diagrams or quoting statistics on emissions, greenhouse gases etc.

I just want to see that the climate's change in temperature can be shown to be changing in a statistically significant way.

It doesn't matter what we say Donald, we won't convince you.....

ROAAAR

I guess the significantly less amount of ice remaining in the north pole compared to 30 years ago.

Computer Science Student

ROAAAR wrote: »

I guess the significantly less amount of ice remaining in the north pole compared to 30 years ago.

But come on man 30 years relative to the age of the universe, that is definitely not a reasonable reason to say it is significant, right?

JoeFritzl

Actually I have nothing. Any statistic I can provide will not be in any way relevant to the history of the world. I could tell you the generic increase in storms, increasing temperatures and the latest readings from Antarctica but this is all completely out of context and can only be compared to the past few years.

I guess any significant change in temperature will always be stumped by historical readings - it's never been as cold as it was during the ice age, and we still don't know what caused that.

I would however say that I think there's a lot of merit to climate change discussions, we are seeing some increases, but it has happened in the past. Climate change has itself changed to encompass overfishing, increases in storms and a variety of other things no longer to do with just temperatures. Humans are responsible for a lot of it, but not all. And certainly a lot of these changes have nothing to do with green house emissions, we still need a lot more research.

JoeFritzl

ROAAAR wrote: »

I guess the significantly less amount of ice remaining in the north pole compared to 30 years ago.

I am actually a member of the Green Party and the reason we never use this as proof is because the ice age was more significant by a magnitude. Ice has been melting for a long time, it's what ice does. We know it's melting at alarming rates but we need to pinpoint what the true cause of this is. It could very well begin to get colder again in the near future. The actual graph we look at these days is the graph of the increase/decrease of ice over time. This is the derivative of ice melted per day over time. We don't have much historical data to compare this with, but it seems to be a sinusoidal and we expect the ice to begin freezing again.

Climate change is no longer about global warming and we sort of accept that. We are more about the environment now and trying to prevent litter/clean up our waters and prevent overfishing. It's also very important that we move to greener forms of energy as it's more cost effective long term.

Duke of Url

Carbon dioxide (CO2) is an important heat-trapping (greenhouse) gas.

The Industrial Age is pumping billions of tons of Co2 into the atmosphere.

Trees absorb Co2 and produce oxygen.

Fock it. We cut the trees down too.

Ice absorbs Co2 also but that sh1ts melting.

Rocks absorb Co2 but we’re smashing that crap up too.

Co2 has gone nuts in the past 50 years never measured at this quantity in history

Again to the first sentence
Carbon dioxide (CO2) is an important heat-trapping (greenhouse) gas

Fr_Dougal

Computer Science Student wrote: »

I don't want any of the usual hyperbole diagrams or quoting statistics on emissions, greenhouse gases etc.

I just want to see that the climate's change in temperature can be shown to be changing in a statistically significant way.

The end of the first ice age.

Computer Science Student

Duke of Url wrote: »

Carbon dioxide (CO2) is an important heat-trapping (greenhouse) gas.

The Industrial Age is pumping billions of tons of Co2 into the atmosphere.

Trees absorb Co2 and produce oxygen.

Fock it. We cut the trees down too.

Ice absorbs Co2 also but that sh1ts melting.

Rocks absorb Co2 but we’re smashing that crap up too.

Co2 has gone nuts in the past 50 years never measured at this quantity in history

Again to the first sentence
Carbon dioxide (CO2) is an important heat-trapping (greenhouse) gas

This is an intriguing argument. Would you mind supporting the diagram with a research paper or similar delving into the raw data. Visually it definitely is statistically significant, but I would like to see how the data was prepared to get there.

[Deleted User]

Duke of Url wrote: »

Carbon dioxide (CO2) is an important heat-trapping (greenhouse) gas.

The Industrial Age is pumping billions of tons of Co2 into the atmosphere.

Trees absorb Co2 and produce oxygen.

Fock it. We cut the trees down too.

Ice absorbs Co2 also but that sh1ts melting.

Rocks absorb Co2 but we’re smashing that crap up too.

Co2 has gone nuts in the past 50 years never measured at this quantity in history

Again to the first sentence
Carbon dioxide (CO2) is an important heat-trapping (greenhouse) gas

This. If you want to see a runaway greenhouse gas effect, check out venus.

[Deleted User]

Computer Science Student wrote: »

I don't want any of the usual hyperbole diagrams or quoting statistics on emissions, greenhouse gases etc.

So, no complicated facts or data, just a nice word picture for you, . Do you want us to sing you a lullaby about climate change ?

Ipso

Given that any measures to combat it have a positive impact on a non climate level, I’d almost say any evidence for it is irrelevant.

Duke of Url

Computer Science Student wrote: »

This is an intriguing argument. Would you mind supporting the diagram with a research paper or similar delving into the raw data. Visually it definitely is statistically significant, but I would like to see how the data was prepared to get there.

Info and raw data here

https://climate.nasa.gov/evidence/

Computer Science Student

https://www.johnenglander.net/wp/wp-content/uploads/2011/11/CO2%20550my%20Extinction%20Chart%20from%20Ward.jpg

jaxxx

Global population of trees has been more than halved since the dawn of humans. If you even have a tiny bit of knowledge as to the role that trees play on the planet, then that should be enough. Need more? Then you're an idiot [not directed at you OP, just in general].

Stevieluvsye

Fcuk off to the weather forum or that mad kip current affairs with this ****e. After hours has been poisoned with that flack thread already

Capt'n Midnight

Fr_Dougal wrote: »

The end of the first ice age.

The Ice Age ended on July 19th, 9724 BC , probably about 3 ish.

11,703 years before 2000 AD the climate flipped back into a warmer mode where it has remained ever since.

Or did it?

In a geological sense, we are still in an ice age as there is still ice in Antarctica and Greenland. The Antarctic ice sheet is roughly 35 million years old, and the Greenland one is roughly 1.5 million years old. Before 35 million years ago there were no ice sheets at all. We have to go back to the Permian period some 270 millions years back to find another period on Earth with significant ice volumes.

Quantum Erasure

Computer Science Student wrote: »

https://www.johnenglander.net/wp/wp-content/uploads/2011/11/CO2%20550my%20Extinction%20Chart%20from%20Ward.jpg

Would you mind supporting the diagram with a research paper or similar delving into the raw data. Visually it definitely is statistically significant, but I would like to see how the data was prepared to get there.

nthclare

There's as much evidence that the climate is changing as much as the weather changes.
As there is in a victorian winter postcard.

One massive volcanic eruption could change the climate for the foreseeable future, some idiots think a butterfly could cause a hurricane.

The climate is being measured only in the last 100 years or so.

30 years isn't enough to compile proper evidence.

Rufeo

I would say all the gas that's being produced by the "what's the etiquette here" thread

Larbre34

I was skeptical enough, but I did a bit of research myself and the correlation between the industrialisation of the planet and the rate of change in temperature and CO2 levels versus the historical rates of change evident in ice cores is undeniable.

The one piece of evidence I would point to is the change in temperature, oxygen levels and salination of the oceans, its too great to be denied or ignored.

moonage

Duke of Url wrote: »

CO2 levels got dangerously low in the past and life on Earth was nearly doomed. (At around 150ppm plants can't survive.)

CO2 is the gas of life and it's great to see levels so high, resulting in a greening of the planet.

[Deleted User]

I presume climate change is happening, but only because of people like Professor John Sweeney who seem to have studied it a lot and come to that conclusion.
It is awful that people who haven’t a clue about it no more than myself start lecturing others about it on the basis of a book they read or something they saw on TV.
The country is losing its way over the environment. Men in court for cutting turf today, but virtue signallers like Eamon Ryan lecture everyone despite taking unnecessary flights and driving 2.5 litre vehicles. Mad, Ted.
https://amp.independent.ie/irish-news/election-2020/ill-put-my-hands-up-i-went-to-climate-summit-in-spain-by-plane-green-party-leader-eamon-ryan-38874076.html

gozunda

[Deleted User] wrote: »

This. If you want to see a runaway greenhouse gas effect, check out venus.

Re The whole 'runaway' thing much beloved of some

This is what they say about 'runaway' greenhouse gas effect

"a 'runaway greenhouse effect'—analogous to [that of] Venus—appears to have virtually no chance of being induced by anthropogenic activities."

Source: IPCC Fifth Assessment Report

And ...

Venus-like conditions on the Earth require a large long-term forcing that is unlikely to occur until the sun brightens by a few tens of percents, which will take a few billion years

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3785813/

JoeFritzl

Deleted User wrote: »

So, no complicated facts or data, just a nice word picture for you, . Do you want us to sing you a lullaby about climate change ?

This attitude definitely doesn't help anyone.

mickdw

Serious question looking for a serious answer and I realise this might look like a silly question but how do we know what the 'correct climate condition for the planet is?
We had the ice age. We came out of the ice age with a massive ice melt. Was the planet healthier when in the iced state. What caused that major change - is it a better healthier planet after the ice age? Should we try to go back to ice age?
When were we at the greenest?
Maybe we have not yet reached peak green state for the planet - a couple of degrees temp rise might not literally be the end of the world, maybe we would lose a percentage of land mass to the sea but we can certainly Engineer our way out of sea level rises by adjusting the built environment faster than they would happen.
Maybe this is all needless panic and man is only yet steering the planet to it's most favourable condition.
Maybe man has nothing whatsoever to do with climate change and dispite what is seen as our worst efforts, a natural cycle of the sun could bring about much more change than man ever could.

JoeFritzl

As previously stated, it can be summarized to a sinusoidal graph. It has its peaks and its lows. Its nodes and anti-nodes. Its crests and troughs.

This is how temperature has been changing over time, and it's natural. We can't necessarily say that it's as a result of carbon emissions or as a result of our distance to the sun. We are in constant orbit and the earth's positions to the sun is never a constant, and it is always changing. Some centuries we will move significantly closer, other centuries significantly farther away.

The real thing we should accept is that renewable electricity and caring for the environment is important. Whether climate change is really happening or not is irrelevant to this point; it's for the scientists to argue and they still continue to argue over this. We still haven't convinced all of the top scientists that this is true. Part of science is to question and I welcome OP's curiosity and his willingness to question even the most solidified of opinions in society. And he's right, it is no longer the truth that we once thought it to be. Recent research in recent years has indicated a plethora of alternative reasons for the warming of our oceans and we are still investigating this. Only time will tell, but until then we will make the basic changes needed, such as moving to electric cars, which is a productive and progressive decision which will actually benefit us financially, and could potentially help the environment if fossil fuels really are causing so much damage.

For an interesting scientific read, and the source of the above image, check out: https://www.geocraft.com/WVFossils/last_400k_yrs.html

"Interestingly, CO2 lags an average of about 800 years behind the temperature changes-- confirming that CO2 is not the cause of the temperature increases. One thing is certain-- earth's climate has been warming and cooling on it's own for at least the last 400,000 years, as the data below show. At year 18,000 and counting in our current interglacial vacation from the Ice Age, we may be due-- some say overdue-- for return to another icehouse climate!"

Church on Tuesday

Look outside your window.