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Chapter 2 - Finding Nemo

Swashbuckler

2018 - Chapter One: The Day That Never Comes - Post 1 to 634

2019 - Chapter Two: Finding Nemo - Post 635 onwards

Original Post:
I've decided to set up one of these in the hope that every now and then someone will come along and in their good nature, answer one of my many questions about my training. I find I've been posting a lot of questions in the Random Running thread so maybe this is a better way of going about it.

Background
36 year old male. Been running for 7 years but only started properly focusing my training since January. Only learned what a tempo, LSR etc. were this year! Previous to that I just went out most days and ran 6 miles at as fast as I could manage. No direction or focus to my training. Had ran some half marathons and mixed in circuit training. But this year I really fell in love with running. Thanks to advice from people on here and chatting to some advanced runners I've met at many races this year I've manage to see significant improvements.

PB's;
5k - 18:22 - Parkrun (2017)
10k - 37:44 - Run Killarney (2017)
Half Marathon: 1:31:35 Charleville (2012). Most recent Half was in June - Half Thru the Heart which I did in 1:33. Extremely tough course and the distance was a little short.

Short to Medium term targets (over the next ~10 months);
5k - Sub 18
10k - Sub 37
Half Marathon - Sub 1:30

Long term targets/dreams;
5k - Sub 17
10k - Sub 35
Run my first Full Marathon (maybe by end of next year).
Run a really good Full Marathon.

Myself and my wife have a baby on the way so I'd say the training could be impacted for a while but I really hope I can keep it up to the same level.

I generally do two/three sessions a week (mix of intervals and tempo), one long run and the rest easy runs. Train 5-6 times a week with one day off.

I do all my Mon-Fri training within my one hour lunch break. LSR is either at the weekend or in the morning before work.

I know I should probably join a club. I would love to but we'll see how life changes once baby arrives. Even if I could do one session a week with a club I think it would be of benefit.

Last weeks training;
Mon: 7 miles steady/progressive starting at 7min/mile and finishing at 6:30min/mile. I'm thinking this run isn't of much benefit as it's in no mans land pacewise for me?
Tues: 5 x 1 mile intervals. Intervals at 5:50min/mile average with 3min recovery between.
Wednesday: 10k easy/recovery @ 7:30min/mile. Not sure if this should be slower but I read that it's bad to have easy and LSR paces the same i.e. too much running at the slow pace. The 7:30 pace felt easy.
Thursday: 15 mile LSR @ 8min/mile. Total time: 2 hours.
Friday: 4 mile recovery jog @ 8:50 min/mile.
Saturday: Parkrun 5k - 18:22.
Sunday: Rest

Probably overdid it a bit last week. Not sure to be honest but I feel good. I'm still learning. I'll be giving up the Parkruns in a couple of weeks for a while so I wanted to run a couple of them pretty hard to end up on a good note.

Any advice is greatly appreciated. I'm looking to improve and still relatively new to proper training so I'm willing to take any advice on board.

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Swashbuckler

skyblue46 wrote:

Delighted! You'd been moping about like a lovelorn teenager for far too long :-)

We were on a break!!!

skyblue46

Delighted! You'd been moping about like a lovelorn teenager for far too long :-)

Swashbuckler

Body decided for me anyway. Soon as the weekend hit I felt drained, scratchy throat. So Adare is off the cards.

On more positive news, much like Ross and Rachel, myself and Luke are no longer "on a break". I'm officially a coached athlete again....... I can feel the running mojo returning already

Murph_D

No easy solutions, obviously, but I second the comment above about winter running, and Feb is probably the worst of the depths. But who am I to question your feelings - if enthusiasm/mojo is lacking, that’s what you’re dealing with. Getting out there and ticking over while not enjoying it is one of the marks of a real runner, I guess, so maybe celebrate that, whether it’s four, five, six or seven days a week.

These things may pass.

Swashbuckler

Cheers for the comments everyone. Still undecided on Sunday. Will probably make up my mind tomorrow. Another option is pacing a buddy going for his first sub 40. I think I can manage 4min per km? Maybe? Haha

corks finest

Straight down the South Douglas road,,can't miss it

MY BAD

As distance runners we spend most our time running on our own unless you're lucky enough to have a good training group, even then with life it can be hard to meet up. This time of year when it's dark and wet it can be particularly hard going. I'm not sure if it's workable for you but try to run with others once a week. If club sessions don't suit your schedule maybe you could pace some of the slower guys and use it as a recovery run. I'm sure with all your knowledge and experience you would be a massive asset to the club. Giving something back can be very rewarding and a good way to keep the buzz alive.

skyblue46

Late getting to this as I have been very busy. The mojo thing is a tough one but as has been said it's about enjoying running for runnings sake not as something that has to be done to set new PBs. What kept me sane over the past 6 months was just being able to get out and jog. It was far better for me than moping that I wasn't getting 'quality' work done. The quality was in enjoying a run for itself, for the good weather, for being a tough bastid when the weather was rotten, for the music (yes I have succumbed), for the location etc. Running is for pleasure not just a means to an end, don't forget it.

A propos the lads suggestion re Adare. It's a great idea. I did something similar yesterday where I just targeted running at a certain HR. Having the (in many ways self imposed) pressures of a clock removed was liberating.

AuldManKing

Sorry to read that about the mojo etc - I can remember someone saying that if there's stress in your life, then running suffers - focus on reducing the stress 1st rather than ploughing on through and not addressing the stress.

Take a step back from things too I think - nothing wrong with a 5 day running week either

No point comparing with the past or with who's doing what these days - I know its difficult not too with Strava and then here - but there'll be people who will be looking at you in a few weeks/months time thinking, jeez, isn't PN running well these days.

BTW: I think racing Adare as SGMC says is a great idea. No watch, bad shoes - no chasing a time - just enjoyment of racing.

Swashbuckler

Laineyfrecks wrote:

Sorry to read you are feeling like this but also happy to see such great runners(B also) writing about this aspect of running. We love running & fit it in to our lives as best we can but with all the stresses of life & work it's not easy at all. It's all to easy to write about the amazing PB's we get, sure that's the fun part but writing about the not so fun parts is hard! I appreciate your honesty...

Cheers E. I'm always very open with that stuff. Helps me manage.

shotgunmcos wrote:

How about running Adare with no watch, not your best shoes, no goal and purposely leave something in the tank to blast out the last mile. The sheer joy of being on your toes to the line...

Yeah that thought had crossed my mind. I guess it's not just a mojo thing. The body isn't in great shape either. Part of me fears a hard effort could throw me over the edge. And I'm not sure I'm bothered to head out to Adare for an easy run.

Mellow Yellow 26.2 wrote:

Don't worry too much about your mojo. If you're simmering away in the background without trying to over cook it by chasing fitness and getting aggressive with training. I think you'll come good soon. I always find it a bit of a struggle this time of year. It will come good, don't give up and stay positive.

I dunno about simmering. Haha. I thought I was building smartly but the body is saying otherwise.

Cheers for the words of encouragement everyone.

MY BAD

Don't worry too much about your mojo. If you're simmering away in the background without trying to over cook it by chasing fitness and getting aggressive with training. I think you'll come good soon. I always find it a bit of a struggle this time of year. It will come good, don't give up and stay positive.

shotgunmcos

I was going to post here but meandered into B's log and posted there with you in mind too. Pretty much what Laineyfrecks said, I echo. The mojo will return.

How about running Adare with no watch, not your best shoes, no goal and purposely leave something in the tank to blast out the last mile. The sheer joy of being on your toes to the line...

Laineyfrecks

Sorry to read you are feeling like this but also happy to see such great runners(B also) writing about this aspect of running. We love running & fit it in to our lives as best we can but with all the stresses of life & work it's not easy at all. It's all to easy to write about the amazing PB's we get, sure that's the fun part but writing about the not so fun parts is hard! I appreciate your honesty...

I hope you find your mojo again soon enough, in the meantime look after yourself

Swashbuckler

OOnegative wrote:

Snap, youâ€™ll get there, your to good a runner not to P.

We're getting sympathy mojo loss.

OOnegative

Snap, you’ll get there, your to good a runner not to P.

Swashbuckler

Following in Barry's footsteps I said I'd better check in on my log and tell similar tales of woe in terms of mojo.

Been a weird few weeks. As has happened all too often in the last couple of years stress takes over. Had been feeling the effects of the recent training so last week (Feb 3rd to 9th) was a little bit of a step back. If I'm honest I didn't feel any better by the end of the week leading to the usual questioning of my training, work worry, life worry etc etc.
Body wasn't in great shape either and physio currently getting up and running in a new job so I have to wait a couple of weeks for an appointment.

This week (Feb 10th to 16th) was literally about trying to keep the show on the road. I have no idea how I managed to get out on six days and also not sure if I should have. Stubborness I guess. I don't really see the point in getting into the specifics of training in the last couple of weeks. It's been fine, a slog at times. Probably enjoyed 2 of the 12 runs. We'll see what this week holds although I have a lot on at work. In two minds about skipping Adare next weekend.

In terms of work I just need to manage that whatever way I can. Unfortunately the running is suffering. I may need to rethink my approach. Perhaps what I was doing was a little too aggressive. I'm not sure. Need to get my mojo back anyway. On the plus side, I'm still getting out there. Keep going and hope for the love to return.

I'm telling you, strava is a tough place to be when you're struggling. Some monster training and racing going on and a 10k pb from two years ago seems like a distant memory.

Anyway, we'll keep trucking on. What's on the plan for this week? Will have to play it by ear.

Swashbuckler

Monday - 13M finishing steady
Tuesday - Easy 6M
Wednesday - Easy 7M plus strides
Thursday - 5x3min off 75s/3min Jog/4x1min On/Off. Target 6min pace for the 3mins. Target "hard" for the 1min.
Friday - Easy 8M ish
Saturday - off
Sunday - 3x1M off 2min/1M Easy/2x1k. Target 6.30 pace for the 1M and 6.10 pace for the 1k.

Another solid week although its time for a step back week this week. Feeling it a little after the last few weeks. Was horsing around with the little one yesterday and felt a little twinge in the right hip. Just a reminder that these little niggles or injuries don't completely disappear. I can't ramp things on a linear line. Has to be a few steps forward, one step back. It's so easy to fall into the trap of progressing every week but my body just won't allow that right now.

Mondays long run was super. Felt great and nice company with shotgun for the first couple of miles. After that I ventured off on my own. Felt great. Its been a long time since I've felt that good consecutively on long runs. Progressed it to steady for the last 10ish minutes.. Those Monday morning early starts are a challenge though! The whole week of work stress lays ahead, up early in the dark. Funny how the mentality changes after the run though. The easy runs on Tuesday and Wednesday followed suit with the strange feeling of being "fit".

Thursdays session seemed pretty straight forward on paper. What's the big deal. 800m reps at 10k effort. Easy right? Not quite. Found it tough. Just a nice reminder not to take anything for granted. Legs felt it by the end of the 1min reps. Made sure not to sacrafice form so I went as quick as I could while still keeping everything as it should be. Still the usual happy buzz after a session though. Everything felt good the following day. The Saturday off works pretty well for me at the mo as I'm usually feeling like I could do with a break by Saturday.

Sundays session was another from the archive. And another early start. These were the type of strength sessions I used to love. No signs this morning of yesterday's niggle but still conscious of it. My first venture into threshold again. This is a nice session. The 3x1M get the legs nice and tired and then into the threshold stuff. I can't say I felt a huge difference in effort level between the tempo and threshold. By the end the legs felt tired but not in a bad way.

I'll have to be careful with the hip. That's three 50 plus mile weeks in a row so time for a little step back this week. Not a big one but maybe a little reduction in intensity. I'll decide Thursday whether to change the planned session.

All in all a good week. In or around 53 miles for the week. We'll done to all the racers today. Between Trim, Milford and Dungarvan it seems like everyone on my Strava was racing today.

Swashbuckler

shotgunmcos wrote:

Yuck.. I'd run into a wet freezing headwind for 1hr40 before that! The risk of falling off the thing from dozing from sheer boredom would be too much..

I also have to play nicely with the missus. Heading out into a storm in the dark at 6am is a no no

Swashbuckler

Mellow Yellow 26.2 wrote:

1 hour 40 on a treadmill.

Dreadmill.

Damo 2k9 wrote:

I know you have Adare in a couple weeks, but whatâ€™s it looking like for the rest of the year? I know there was talk of a marathon, still going ahead?

That's a good question. I had notions of the marathon when I was on the road back, and then a setback in December got me rethinking. I think I fell into the pitfall of being one of those lads that gets injured, starts to feel better and then sets really lofty goals getting ahead of himself.
So I had a sit down with myself and asked myself
1. What do I want from 2020 and
2.what do I enjoy most about running.

I guess the conclusion I came to was I still see myself as a 5k/10k guy. I just love the training for it and I like the idea of racing and recovering within a day and back to training again. Also like the idea of not placing everything on one huge race.
It also made me realise I needed to stop trying to reinvent the wheel and to get back to what worked before with Luke.

So with that I'm just going to see how I am come summer time. Right now I'm running Adare, maybe Ennis 10k in March. Probably HM in Limerick in May and 10k in Tralee Summer solistice in June. Tralee 10k is probably what I'll gear up towards in terms of specifics but that could change depending on how Feb and March go. I also like the thoughts of throwing in some 5k stuff at some point. Maybe that'll come after June but we'll see.

As for Dublin, who knows. The main thing for me is to exit the year in better shape i came into it and head I to 2021 with momentum.

In the middle of all of this is balancing work and family, hence the lack of a clear cut plan. I've learned from my mistakes. My plans for 2020 are in pencil and subject to change. I'm lucky in a way that I learned so much from Luke that I can kinda structure my own year.

shotgunmcos

Mellow Yellow 26.2 wrote: »

1 hour 40 on a treadmill. :eek:

Yuck.. I'd run into a wet freezing headwind for 1hr40 before that! The risk of falling off the thing from dozing from sheer boredom would be too much..

Solid week P. Particularly feeling strong at the end of it

Damo 2k9

Some solid weeks in there pal, looks like your settling back into it very nicely.

I know you have Adare in a couple weeks, but what’s it looking like for the rest of the year? I know there was talk of a marathon, still going ahead?

MY BAD

1 hour 40 on a treadmill. :eek:

Swashbuckler

Jan 13th to 19th
Monday - 1hr40min on treadmill
Tuesday - easy 7M
Wednesday - easy 7M with strides
Thursday - 6x3min off 75s. Target 6:00 pace.
Friday - easy 7M
Saturday - Steady 5M at 7:00min per mile
Sunday - Off

Treadmill needed on the Monday thanks to storm Brendan. Got some texts and messages on my Strava asking how I didn't quit on it. Don't worry folks, I'm not some superhero. It was as boring as it looked on paper and didn't enjoy it atall but needs must. I hate being forced onto a treadmill for a long run especially. I don't know how I spent so many years running on one.

Thursdays session was another "getting comfortable running at 10k" session. Went really well. I had programmed the option of a seventh rep in the watch but thought better. The session was executed well and form was solid throughout. All reps were more or less bang on 6min pace. Finished feeling refreshed and buzzy. Like the old days!

The latter part of the week was a bit tricky to manage. Christening on Sunday which was a great day but meant my usual Sunday session was not happening. That meant deciding on Saturday how the legs felt and see from there. I don't like have sessions that close together. I adjusted the session accordingly to something still strength based but less aggressive than what I would've run. Nothing of note really from Saturdays session other than I felt good and really enjoy running in that pace range. Why wouldn't it be enjoyable I guess, its meant to be running reasonably comfortably.
All in all a really good week and strongest I've felt in a while which is a good sign.
Total for the week was roughly 51 miles.

Jan 20th to 26th
Monday - 13M progression to steady
Tuesday - easy 7M
Wednesday - easy 8M with strides
Thursday - 16x300m off 60s.
Friday - Recovery 6M
Saturday - off
Sunday - 18/12/10min at 6.30 off 2min

Monday was as good as I've felt on a run in a long while so I just went with it. Progressed it to steady in the last couple of miles. Felt great.

Thursdays session was an absolute lung and leg buster. I wanted to get some proper turnover at much faster than 10k effort and work the lungs and legs a bit. I remember this was always a session I suffered on with Luke and this was no different. That being said I'm really really happy with how it went. Was nice to do some anaerobic stuff. Nice to be getting back to what I know has worked in the past. Legs felt it after this and felt it for a few days! I love how much I hate this session.

Today's session was solid. At the moment my sessions are pretty much set up for some "faster stuff" and some "strength stuff". This week I'll be introducing a little threshold stuff depending on how I feel. Felt rock solid today and had that lovely sense of runners buzz at the end. For anyone that's interested for the last four weeks my Sunday session has been geared to be slower than threshold so working on the aerobic side of things. I'm basically building myself up to be able to get cracking on the harder threshold stuff over the next period. So essentially this is training to train.
Total for the week was roughly 52.5 miles. Last three weeks have been 50,51 and 52.5 miles. Somehow managed to get all my sessions and long runs in. Very very happy. Adare in a few weeks but that will be whatever it is. Building nicely.

Baby75

Well done on the race, that is a great result

and that is great on the quad well done

Swashbuckler

Monday - Easy 12M
Tuesday - Easy 7M
Wednesday - Easy 7M with strides
Thursday - 12x90s off 60s @6.00/mile pace
Friday - Recovery 6.5M
Saturday - Off
Sunday - 3x10min off 2min @6.35/mile pace
Total of 48.5 miles for the week

First week back at work..............

Quickly remembered just how difficult it is to balance work/life/running.

This was a solid week. Long run Monday was enjoyable early in the morning before the world woke. The doom of work hanging over me but as always, it takes a few days to adjust and then it's like you were never gone.

Easy runs all week were slow (roughly 8.15 to 8.30 as the body gets used to adapting to three hard runs and 45-50 mile weeks).

Thursdays session was great. These style sessions are purely to get me comfortable running 10k effort again. I'll build on these over the next while. It went well. Very controlled and all focus on effort and form. I'm retraining myself mentally again on how to feel these out so it took a few to be able to hit the right effort and paces without the watch. Some were a little quick. Target was 6min/mile pace. Range for the 12 was 5.43-6.12 but most hit close to 6.00. Body was perfect after.

Sundays session was all about building up that strength and aerobic base targeting 6.35ish. Solid throughout again. I can feel it coming back to me.

Physio was on Thursday. She's delighted. She has a test for checking what range we're getting in the quad. Gone from 40% in July to 85ish% now. Had a rub out. All good. The patience is paying off. I'll keep these visits up every 6 weeks for now.

Lazare

Swashbuckler wrote: »

Limerick Country Club 5M Race Report.

Only reading now. Cracking stuff P, delighted for you.

Swashbuckler

Mellow Yellow 26.2 wrote:

The Sunday session used to mean something different to me in the early 00's

Haha yep I thought about calling it Sunday session on Strava. Good old days....

MY BAD

The Sunday session used to mean something different to me in the early 00's :eek:

Swashbuckler

Monday - Off
Tuesday - Easy 7M
Wednesday - Limerick Country Club 5M
Thursday - Recovery 7M
Friday - Easy 7M
Saturday - Off
Sunday - 4x5min at 6.30ish off 90s/3min Jog/1x 20/30/40s Hard off 60s

Total miles this week:38

Gonna do my best to keep this log up to date. In fairness I get so much out of peoples logs on here it's only fair I make an effort to share my own training. Apologies though, at times updates may be short and lazy. I won't talk about any easy runs unless something of note happened. Most of my easy or recovery runs are between 8 to 8.30min/mile.

For now the weeks should look like;
Monday long
Tuesday easy
Wednesday easy
Thursday session
Friday easy
Saturday off
Sunday session

We'll see how manageable that is.

This week I couldn't get the Monday long run in. Tuesday was standard and Wednesday see above.
Thursdays recovery run was good. Glutes sore and legs a little dead but nothing major. Really improved as the week went on.
Good session today. These types of sessions will feature a bit for a while. Over the next six weeks I plan to have one session a week where I hover around 10k pace and every now and then throw in a faster 300m session maybe. The second session of the week I plan to have a strength based session. Hovering around paces from 6.10 to 7.00. Basically high end aerobic and threshold. I'll build these as time goes on. Today's session was a nice conservative dip of the toes back into some strength sessions. It went very well. Kept effort where it should be. Kept an eye on heart rate. Wanted to stay between 155 - 160. Didn't want to move into lactate threshold yet. Some nice turnover at the end of the session too. Running fast on tired legs.

I have a rough outline of the next 6 weeks. After that I'll hopefully start adding some mixes to the sessions. Nothing race specific for a lonnnnnggg while yet.

Well done to all the awards winners. Good to see AMK's log get the recognition it deserves.

Swashbuckler

Mellow Yellow 26.2 wrote:

Delighted to see you back racing again. Great race and a nice confidence booster. That was a fairly big hill looking at the elevation gain too. Nice and steady as she's goes in a few months you'll be back to where you were before the bad spell, you know the craic yourself.

Cheers man and cheers for being so consistent with your log. Seeing what you've done since a major setback has kept me going.