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DART+ (DART Expansion)

murphaph

New propoganda here but it really whets the appetite.....who knows if we'll have the nerve to do it though....

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Grandeeod

Idbatterim wrote: »

dont built it when times are "bad" when it would be far cheaper to build and we could keep skilled people here, because we dont have the money. The good times come, dont build it, because its more expensive and we need a hundred public consulatations, before the **** all comes crashing back down again :rolleyes::mad:

I'm working in London now. While it has its problems, its a fooking joy on PT compared to Dublin. If Dublin had a minute fraction of what London has (and that's all it needs.) it could be a joy too.

I haven't got a seat on a bus or tube, but so what. It works.

Shedite27

MrAbyss wrote: »

I am assuming they are talking about reopening North Wall station? I didn't realise this was being considered seriously. I certainly hope it is.

I had it in my head that this was part of the Salesforce plans going in there (ie that Salesforce were footing the bill so that their new HQ would have a dart station), but I can;t find anything about it online. Did I dream that up?

https://www.dublinlive.ie/news/property/first-look-dublins-newest-urban-15697223

CatInABox

Shedite27 wrote: »

I had it in my head that this was part of the Salesforce plans going in there (ie that Salesforce were footing the bill so that their new HQ would have a dart station), but I can;t find anything about it online. Did I dream that up?

https://www.dublinlive.ie/news/property/first-look-dublins-newest-urban-15697223

No, that's a different old building. The station would be the one at the corner of North Wall Quay and Park Lane. The platforms would extend north, where the Europcar place is now, all the way past the Spencer Dock Luas stop.

EDIT: I actually misread your post, sorry.

CatInABox

Further reporting on the increase in the costs here. Makes the argument that the initial estimate was just that, and as the design goes on, the cost will probably increase, but be more accurate.

No one has made the argument yet that regardless of the cost, this pretty much has to be done anyway.

spacetweek

CatInABox wrote: »

No one has made the argument yet that regardless of the cost, this pretty much has to be done anyway.

That's the one I'd make. We have to build this regardless of what it costs, the cost of not building it is so much greater.

Nowhere would you be able to cost accurately a project of this scale. Too many unknowns and contingency required. It's a rebuild/expansion of an existing system while keeping the lights on and no downtime. Total nightmare to plan and carry out.

And it still doesn't include Dart Underground!

Tomrota

I wonder if anyone can answer my questions.

Are these projects definitely going ahead? Have they gone into design stage? Could the next government cancel these plans? How likely is that? Also, could the next government actually expand the plans, like include DART underground and extend the network even further for example?

Dats me

Tomrota wrote: »

I wonder if anyone can answer my questions.

Are these projects definitely going ahead? Have they gone into design stage? Could the next government cancel these plans? How likely is that? Also, could the next government actually expand the plans, like include DART underground and extend the network even further for example?

MetroLink, BusConnects and DART Maynooth have all awarded contracts to bring them up to a planning decision. That could be €100m in contracts to cancel if the next govt wants to just up and start again.

DART expansion certainly should be safe from that anyway ai think there's full agreement on what needs to be done

Sam Russell

How much of the Dart expansion could go ahead without a railway order?

Could the southbound loop at Clongriffin go ahead?

Could IR put up the electric gantries and cables for Dart out to Maynooth or Hazlehatch?

Could they double track any lines they wish?

How tied are they?

(Ignoring the finance of course).

Last Stop

Very little could be done without an RO.

The act obviously allows for essentially maintenance works but not much more

http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/eli/2001/act/55/section/37/enacted/en/html#sec37

38.—Each of the following shall be exempted development for the purposes of the Act of 2000—

(a) development consisting of the carrying out of railway works, including the use of the railway works or any part thereof for the purposes of the operation of a railway, authorised by the Minister and specified in a railway order or of any incidental or temporary works connected with such development;

(b) development consisting of the carrying out of railway works for the maintenance, improvement or repair of a railway that has been built pursuant to a railway order.

Zebra3

So a new station on existing track needs a railway order?

(Thinking of the Glasnevin/Crossguns "link" station).

Last Stop

But that will be under Metrolink’s RO

Zebra3

Last Stop wrote: »

But that will be under Metrolink’s RO

I would've thought it would be covered by the DART expansion.

CatInABox

Zebra3 wrote: »

I would've thought it would be covered by the DART expansion.

It's essentially pointless without the Dart expansion, plus it can't even be built until the Metrolink station has been built under it, so therefore it's part of the Metrolink order.

Conchir

Sam Russell wrote: »

Could the southbound loop at Clongriffin go ahead?

Is there a plan for this available to view?

LXFlyer

Conchir wrote: »

Is there a plan for this available to view?

No.

But it would involve laying a track along the east side of the southbound platform, which could facilitate Northern line trains or Enterprise services overtaking DART services.

Conchir

LXFlyer wrote: »

No.

But it would involve laying a track along the east side of the southbound platform, which could facilitate Northern line trains or Enterprise services overtaking DART services.

Yeah I imagined that would be it. So in that case, the stairs/lift on the Baldoyle side would have to come down. Is that part of the development plan for the new houses going in on that side anyway, with a ramp similar to the northbound side?

LXFlyer

Conchir wrote: »

Yeah I imagined that would be it. So in that case, the stairs/lift on the Baldoyle side would have to come down. Is that part of the development plan for the new houses going in on that side anyway, with a ramp similar to the northbound side?

I have no idea. The only thing I do know is that from an operational perspective a southbound passing loop will have to go in there.

Looking on google maps it looks as if there should be sufficient room to fit the trackwork in but don't quote me on that.

marno21

IE have filed a Railway Order pre-application consultation with An Bord Pleanala for the Maynooth line/City Centre elements of DART Expansion

http://www.pleanala.ie/casenum/306587.htm

cgcsb

A pre-application for this and a micro-consultation on the location of an emergency exit. Honestly you'd swear there was a fortune to be made on not building infrastructure.

Idbatterim

cgcsb wrote: »

A pre-application for this and a micro-consultation on the location of an emergency exit. Honestly you'd swear there was a fortune to be made on not building infrastructure.

if they have no intention on building anything, wouldnt they do us all a favour and cancel everything that isnt road building now?! :mad:

do they have a public consultation on what colour the emergency exit corridors should be painted?

Last Stop

cgcsb wrote: »

A pre-application for this

A pre-application is a standard part of the Railway Order process. There will be a series of meeting with An BoRd Pleanala with the intention of making the actual application run smoother by addressing their concerns/queries at this stage. If anything this is positive that the project is advanced enough to commence this

cgcsb

Last Stop wrote: »

A pre-application is a standard part of the Railway Order process. There will be a series of meeting with An BoRd Pleanala with the intention of making the actual application run smoother by addressing their concerns/queries at this stage. If anything this is positive that the project is advanced enough to commence this

Im aware it's part of the process. The process is a wasteful load of tripe though. Money that could be going to actually building infrastructure rather than writing reports about it. The level of bureaucracy is just pathetic. In Italy they keep getting you to fill in forms for domestic scale planning permission until you bribe them. But they still don't even have this level of ridiculous for large scale projects. They love an oul report and consultation in Sweden also but Ireland really takes the biscuit with the back and forth nonsense.

Pete_Cavan

cgcsb wrote: »

Im aware it's part of the process. The process is a wasteful load of tripe though. Money that could be going to actually building infrastructure rather than writing reports about it. The level of bureaucracy is just pathetic. In Italy they keep getting you to fill in forms for domestic scale planning permission until you bribe them. But they still don't even have this level of ridiculous for large scale projects. They love an oul report and consultation in Sweden also but Ireland really takes the biscuit with the back and forth nonsense.

What reports? The pre-application consultation just reviews the drafts of the documents they intend submitting. There is no additional information needed. If anything it reduces the bureaucracy as it ensures that what is submitted is closer to what ABP expect to receive and reduces the risk of it being rejected.

antimatterx

Conchir wrote: »

Yeah I imagined that would be it. So in that case, the stairs/lift on the Baldoyle side would have to come down. Is that part of the development plan for the new houses going in on that side anyway, with a ramp similar to the northbound side?

Where will the access go for Baldoyle residents.

Phil.x

11 years of talking and still nothing.

specialbyte

Enabling works for full construction is stating on the new Pelletstown train station on the Maynooth line: https://twitter.com/RCPCA1/status/1229514141599137792

MJohnston

When was the last time a new train station opened in Dublin?

TheChrisD

MJohnston wrote: »

When was the last time a new train station opened in Dublin?

Hansfield in 2013, methinks?

p_haugh

TheChrisD wrote: »

Hansfield in 2013, methinks?

Yep, 28th June 2013 to be exact.

dahljihnm

I don’t want to read the whole thread so I have three simple questions:

1. Will DART Underground ever happen?
2. If so, will it be the same route as envisaged in the plans a decade ago?
3. What other DART expansions are being proposed/suggested?