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Random EV thoughts.....

Old diesel

The main motors forum has the motors chat thread for the little things one would like to say but might not justify a thread.

Thought it might be an idea for here re hybrids and EV stuff.....

To kick off - i wonder if a new measurement for EVs might be assuming a start trip at 100 percent......

A how much range do you get with a 15 minute stop.

With a 350 kw charging a Porsche Tayman might do very well with getting on for 400 miles...

A Leaf 62 not so good.

Obviously where a car can do more then 50 kw charging we would need both a 50 kw and a whatever the cars top rate is figure*.

*IF chargers are available

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imfml

tom_tarbucket wrote: »

How much did the corroded break discs cost?

Front break discs, pads and break fluid change cost 400 on top of the service with a Nissan dealer. Only noticed afterwards, they also charged 2 euro for washer fluid too. Surely they lose more business by putting that on the bill then the profit is worth.

Black_Knight

ELM327 wrote: »

40km each way with work charging and home charging is 25k km

If work charging is an options, and 40km each way commute probably isn't that big of a target market.

253 working days of the year is 20k km if you've a 40km each way commute. Even at that, saving about €1600 a year, it's over 6 years before you break even.

Casati

Black_Knight wrote: »

Hardly worth it so from a financial perspective. €10k gets you a lot of petrol vs the ~40km on a charge you get from the PHEV. 40km a day for 300 days of the year is only 12k km so guessing maybe saving €800 a year, max.

Not sure i've yet seen a good justification for a new PHEV from a financial perspective.

Passat GTE PHEV 218ps is actually 42500 after the 7500 grants

Passat Elegance 2.0 TSI 190ps DSG is 42000

Think it’s hard to argue with not buying the GTE unless your doing long distance big miles in which case the 2.0 TDI is still hard to beat

Black_Knight

Casati wrote: »

Passat GTE PHEV 218ps is actually 42500 after the 7500 grants

Passat Elegance 2.0 TSI 190ps DSG is 42000

Think it’s hard to argue with not buying the GTE unless your doing long distance big miles in which case the 2.0 TDI is still hard to beat

That's a whole different kettle of fish so. Is this the first PHEV to be similarly priced to its ICE equivalent?

Casati

Black_Knight wrote: »

That's a whole different kettle of fish so. Is this the first PHEV to be similarly priced to its ICE equivalent?

Loads of PHEVs are cheaper - due to the grants and lower co2 - almost all BMW’s, the Outlander.

Merc 560 is 155k in petrol and 40k cheaper as a PHEV!

[Deleted User]

unkel wrote: »

If I were a taxi driver in Dublin there's not a chance I would still be driving an ICE.

And yet....... Taxi drivers say the battery car is too expensive and inconvenient to charge. Most taxis are on the road 18+ hours per day, with different drivers, doing a shade more the 200km.

Universally taxi drivers are known for being miserable with money, so why then are they not all out of their deisels? Cost and practicality

Casati

[Deleted User] wrote: »

And yet....... Taxi drivers say the battery car is too expensive and inconvenient to charge. Most taxis are on the road 18+ hours per day, with different drivers, doing a shade more the 200km.

Universally taxi drivers are known for being miserable with money, so why then are they not all out of their deisels? Cost and

At 1.14 per km that’s only 228 euro assuming they are only clock for all km’s.

They must be driving a lot more than that to have any hope of a living wage

unkel

Casati wrote: »

At 1.14 per km

Eh?

It's about 20km to the airport from my home and it's over €40, plus tip and toll and cases. And that's easy very fast km off peak. Most km in a taxi in Dublin cost far more than that €2 / km again.

Lumen

UK are introducing BIK-free salary sacrifice for EVs.

We don't have this here, right? Is it just a loan? I'm confused.

https://www.thisismoney.co.uk/money/cars/article-7970367/The-electric-car-salary-sacrifice-tax-break-save-40.html

ELM327

Lumen wrote: »

UK are introducing BIK-free salary sacrifice for EVs.

We don't have this here, right? Is it just a loan? I'm confused.

https://www.thisismoney.co.uk/money/cars/article-7970367/The-electric-car-salary-sacrifice-tax-break-save-40.html

We have it here for the bike to work scheme, not for EVs

timsey tiger

Essentially, you get a loan to buy the car and the repayments come from your pretax income.

There are probably limits and such in the small print. But if tax is at the 40% mentioned in the article and you can sell on your car after 3 years for 60% of purchase price, you've had a car for free.

We don't have this here. Only zero bik on electric company cars.

Black_Knight

Is there no Zoe thread?

Came across this:

Zoe with 345,000km on clock still has near perfect battery … or does it?

Pretty impressive if taken at face value.

ELM327

Not accurate

Either 1) Renault have been slowly releasing hidden buffer capacity or 2) the methodology is wrong or 3) it came with 110% SOH from new.

You cannot use that amount of cycles in an LI-Ion battery with no deg

Black_Knight

ELM327 wrote: »

Not accurate

Either 1) Renault have been slowly releasing hidden buffer capacity or 2) the methodology is wrong or 3) it came with 110% SOH from new.

You cannot use that amount of cycles in an LI-Ion battery with no deg

It does mention it has degradation:

the 2017 Renault Zoe shows the 96% state of health, and an 82.1% usable state of charge giving 41kWh usable capacity from the vehicle’s original 52kWh.

unkel

The vehicle's original 52kWh? I don't think so. It's hard to believe any of those figures when at least one of them can easily be proven to be completely wrong :rolleyes:

ELM327

unkel wrote: »

The vehicle's original 52kWh? I don't think so. It's hard to believe any of those figures when at least one of them can easily be proven to be completely wrong :rolleyes:

Zoe ZE40 originally did not have 52kWh, I think that article smells of bullcrap, I agree!

rivegauche

Ignoring what badge may be on the boot there is a label when you open the driver door telling you how many KW the Zoe has.

Dia_Dhuit

zg3409

Dia_Dhuit wrote: »

<banned rereg>

It all depends on your speed. What speed were you going? It was also very windy which can help or hinder depending on wind direction. Cold and rain also hinder range. Most people these days use kWh/km. Typically the Ioniq fairs best for high speed efficiency, followed by Kona and Niro. Tesla next, with leaf being quite bad along with European cars.. They say the leaf was designed for lower cruising speed as in the motor and gear set up was not designed for 120km/h as the speed limits in Japan are lower. Best efficiency is to have zero regeneration and coast and power without cruise. Regeneration refills the battery but it is not 100% efficient. If you can just reduce power to slow, this is better than regen braking, but only realistic on quiet motorways

unkel

Dia_Dhuit wrote: »

My average was 3.4 miles/KWH
On motorway the instant read out dipped to 2miles/KWH

Welcome to boards.ie

We usually compare the consumption of EVs in kWh / 100km, so your figures are:

average: 18kWh / 100km. This is pretty normal for a L24 in winter

motorway: 31kWh / 100km. L24 / L30 have very poor efficiency at motorway speeds. I guess you were driving at about 130km/h indicated (about 120km/h real speed) when you recorded this? If so, that's pretty normal for the L24 in winter at those speeds.

ELM327

Dia_Dhuit wrote: »

<banned rereg>

Forty rods to the hogs head

NIMAN

Is it still free to VRT a UK electric car as long as the vrt is <5k?

unkel

NIMAN wrote: »

Is it still free to VRT a UK electric car as long as the vrt is <5k?

Yep. At least until the end of this year. Most EVs over there are terrible value for money though. What are you thinking of bringing in?

NIMAN

unkel wrote: »

Yep. At least until the end of this year. Most EVs over there are terrible value for money though. What are you thinking of bringing in?

Just thinking at present Unkel.

richardsheil

unkel wrote: »

Yep. At least until the end of this year. Most EVs over there are terrible value for money though. What are you thinking of bringing in?

Any value in 2015 Tesla?

KCross

Merc have cut their EQC production in half
https://finance.yahoo.com/news/mercedes-halves-ev-production-target-123802281.html

Jaguar are supposedly pausing production of iPace this month due to battery shortages
https://www.businessinsider.com/jaguar-halting-i-pace-production-due-to-battery-shortage-2020-2

eTron production has been curtailed and they were also reported to be hit with a price increase
https://www.lecho.be/entreprises/auto/audi-brussels-revoit-sa-prevision-de-production-de-20-a-la-baisse/10117432

The common denominator seems to be LG Chem!

The ramp up for EV mass adoption is going to be slow if they cant even manage to deliver enough at the premium end.

It will be interesting to see how solid the VW battery contracts for ID.3 are!

JohnC.

Is this just a battery thing or a Chinese supply issue, with the virus? Lots of ICE being cut too due to that.

unkel

richardsheil wrote: »

Any value in 2015 Tesla?

Very hard to say what's happening with the values of the Model S over the next year or two. I reckon they have a fair bit to drop, but that might be (partial) wishful thinking as I fancy buying one myself.

As a short term (flipping) exercise, that might work. The cheaper older non autopilot Model S go from about GBP26k now. That's a bit over €31k, with cheap flight and ferry and a few hundred quid VRT that's €32k landed on Irish plates (VRT bill is €280 if the car has an Irish OMSP of €37k)

A boardsie recently had not much trouble selling his Irish reg one for €35k (which suprised me), so you'd have a margin of €3k

richardsheil

unkel wrote: »

Very hard to say what's happening with the values of the Model S over the next year or two. I reckon they have a fair bit to drop, but that might be (partial) wishful thinking as I fancy buying one myself.

As a short term (flipping) exercise, that might work. The cheaper older non autopilot Model S go from about GBP26k now. That's a bit over €31k, with cheap flight and ferry and a few hundred quid VRT that's €32k landed on Irish plates (VRT bill is €280 if the car has an Irish OMSP of €37k)

A boardsie recently had not much trouble selling his Irish reg one for €35k (which suprised me), so you'd have a margin of €3k

Can't see any for £26k , care to point me in right direction.
Lots on auto trader with huge miles

unkel

richardsheil wrote: »

Can't see any for £26k , care to point me in right direction.

1

2

Wouldn't worry about mileage. Electric drivetrain and battery can stand a lot more miles than ICE cars. First Tesla Model S just went through 1 million km, iirc about 500k km on its current battery and 700k km on its current motor.