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Child Item

When will men get liberated from gender roles?

mr_fegelien

60 years ago, any woman who would have worn trousers would have been laughed at like a man wearing skirts in modern times. Today, women wearing pants elicits no response.

Women also can take up STEM subjects, don't have to get married, can act masculine, are leaders of countries etc...

Yet men are still ridiculed for wearing feminine attire, choosing careers like nursing, etc..

Why is this? When will men "women up" and not be afraid of showing their feminine side?

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Silentcorner

ArchXStanton wrote: »

When men abandon them

One of the bonuses of feminism was liberating men from chains they didn't know they had

I had to laugh at that one...Feminism is fighting mother nature...nobody has ever won that battle.

They tried all this when the Jews established the Kibbutz over 100 years ago...removing gender roles and expectations...women were free to work the same jobs as men, nobody got married, kids were raised in separate dwellings so as not to contaminate them...

Guess what happened...it took a generation or two but women wanted to get married and live with their husbands and kids and work different jobs to men, today, men in the kibbutz do the majority of farm and tech work, women look after everything else....

Look around you, does anyone actually believe we are emotionally healthier than we were....what do people think is driving the epidemic of narcissism, anxiety, loneliness...we will start to see this reflected in marriage and birth rates...there will be a huge increase in the amount of women who will never experience motherhood at a time when we all get to live well into our 80s and 90s....that is a long long life to be on your own without family.

Maybe there was a reason societies built themselves on what gender roles best suited the genders....

Mad_maxx

Silentcorner wrote: »

I had to laugh at that one...Feminism is fighting mother nature...nobody has ever won that battle.

They tried all this when the Jews established the Kibbutz over 100 years ago...removing gender roles and expectations...women were free to work the same jobs as men, nobody got married, kids were raised in separate dwellings so as not to contaminate them...

Guess what happened...it took a generation or two but women wanted to get married and live with their husbands and kids and work different jobs to men, today, men in the kibbutz do the majority of farm and tech work, women look after everything else....

Look around you, does anyone actually believe we are emotionally healthier than we were....what do people think is driving the epidemic of narcissism, anxiety, loneliness...we will start to see this reflected in marriage and birth rates...there will be a huge increase in the amount of women who will never experience motherhood at a time when we all get to live well into our 80s and 90s....that is a long long life to be on your own without family.

Maybe there was a reason societies built themselves on what gender roles best suited the genders....

The notion - advanced argument that conforming to "traditional gender stereotypes" is what results in male suicide or general mental health problems is laughable at best and at worst designed to lead young men and boys astray

Fifty years ago men were far more likely to conform to traditional male characteristics yet there was nothing like the level of mental health issues compared to today

When will we stop paying attention to liberals, they are wrong about everything

Church on Tuesday

My brother is a male nurse and trust me it's not for the faint of heart by times.

Male nurses has been a thing for years now.

ArchXStanton

Silentcorner wrote: »

I had to laugh at that one...Feminism is fighting mother nature...nobody has ever won that battle.

They tried all this when the Jews established the Kibbutz over 100 years ago...removing gender roles and expectations...women were free to work the same jobs as men, nobody got married, kids were raised in separate dwellings so as not to contaminate them...

Guess what happened...it took a generation or two but women wanted to get married and live with their husbands and kids and work different jobs to men, today, men in the kibbutz do the majority of farm and tech work, women look after everything else....

Look around you, does anyone actually believe we are emotionally healthier than we were....what do people think is driving the epidemic of narcissism, anxiety, loneliness...we will start to see this reflected in marriage and birth rates...there will be a huge increase in the amount of women who will never experience motherhood at a time when we all get to live well into our 80s and 90s....that is a long long life to be on your own without family.

Maybe there was a reason societies built themselves on what gender roles best suited the genders....

I know

Austria!

ILoveYourVibes wrote: »

The only people keeping men oppressed in a way that has anything to do with gender is MEN.

The legal system oppresses men too.

El_Duderino 09

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Actually, quite a few men were there with them during those campaigns. My father marched with my mother for equal rights throughout the 60s/70s.

Yeah that’s the way these things work. A lot of the prominent feminists on these threads are supporters of men’s rights issues. Almost all the opposition to men’s tights issues comes from men though which is a shame.

Ultimately things change when proper make them change. Some things do change by accident as a consequence of other changes - which people pushed for. If men don’t campaign to change the things they want to see change, then nothing will happen.

There are some really clear and fairly uncontroversial issues which affect men and would be ripe for change. Boys falling behind in education, men’s mental and physical health, fathers’ treatment in family courts.

Alas, the push for change probably has to come from men and, at the moment, enough men are not actively pursuing those changes.

Fr_Dougal

ILoveYourVibes wrote: »

The only people keeping men oppressed in a way that has anything to do with gender is MEN.

Wow...victim blaming...

Silentcorner

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

Yeah that’s the way these things work. A lot of the prominent feminists on these threads are supporters of men’s rights issues. Almost all the opposition to men’s tights issues comes from men though which is a shame.

Ultimately things change when proper make them change. Some things do change by accident as a consequence of other changes - which people pushed for. If men don’t campaign to change the things they want to see change, then nothing will happen.

There are some really clear and fairly uncontroversial issues which affect men and would be ripe for change. Boys falling behind in education, men’s mental and physical health, fathers’ treatment in family courts.

Alas, the push for change probably has to come from men and, at the moment, enough men are not actively pursuing those changes.

See...the problem with all that is...no one knows what feminism is anymore...how can any reasoned individual can (often proudly) identify themselves as a feminist is beyond me...the feminism we see in media is all unbalanced gibberish from mainly women who are completely ill informed when it comes to anything that doesn't involve themselves with a cult like loyalty to a rather infantile theory/ideology of "patriarchial oppression".

I have to say, maybe with one or two exceptions, on boards, feminists are even more ignorant of issues facing men than most men are and that is saying something.

What you have identified are real issues and certainly men and women need to educate themselves properly on how our society treats one another but what doesn't help is a clearly divisive movement that is well funded and afforded way more influence than it should receive, the movement itself abuses that power repeatedly...often to the detriment of women I might add...selling useless Gender Studies degrees to women is immoral but what do I know!!!

VayNiice

One eyed Jack wrote: »

Because men in women’s clothing look ridiculous, and people aren’t afraid to show their disdain for such nonsense. Men are ridiculed for taking low-paying ****e jobs because they’re expected to be capable of more. Men don’t have a “feminine side”, they’re men - masculine. Men are expected to behave like men and not behave like women. Why should men who want to behave like women expect people to accept that sort of behaviour?

I don’t think anyone is “afraid” to show their feminine side or their masculine side. I think they’re fully conscious that there are social standards expected of them and nobody in society can simply be who they want and expect other people should just accept that. Society has no time for selfish individuals.

Jaysus you sound like you're living in the 1950s. I bet you abuse lads for wearing fashionable clothes too?

spurious

Deleted User wrote: »

Instead, males should be pushing for egalitarianism. Equality of opportunity, and a society that stops placing so much emphasis on gender.

I agree. That is feminism, when you take away the cartoon version so many in AH are attached to.

the_pen_turner

spurious wrote: »

I agree. That is feminism, when you take away the cartoon version so many in AH are attached to.

historically femanism was about freeing women , getting the right to vote, not be raped or attacked in their own homes, right to get a job etc. all great causes

now its twisted into a big mess that is caused by all the crazies out there creating issues out of nothing and brainwashing people into believeing this crap.

[Deleted User]

the_pen_turner wrote: »

historically femanism was about freeing women , getting the right to vote, not be raped or attacked in their own homes, right to get a job etc.

That's all small fry.

Now it's on to the big stuff like men talking about football at their desks and mens razors being cheaper than womens.

pawdee

The first time I heard the term "gender fluid" was when the lad in RTE announced that he was going to be wearing a frock and wanted to be called Rachel two days a week. He had a handbag and everything. I haven't heard anything about him (her?) since. I wonder how he / she's getting on? I'd heard of brake fluid, transmission fluid, Jeye's Fluid etc but never gender fluid. Every day's a school day I suppose.

jimgoose

pawdee wrote: »

...transmission fluid...

It's "cismission" fluid nowadays. "Transmission" fluid is only used by weird German flappy-paddle DCT setups that are a little bit Bratwurst and a little bit Apfel Strudel.

mc25

About the gender roles in work, I agree it is unfair to always ask the men to do the literal heavy lifting. We should definitely change that!

But for other things, it can be that it's the women always getting asked to do stuff.

For example in my office we have a cake fund (everyone contributes about a tenner a year) and then we use it to get a cake for people on their birthday. In all my 4 years of working there, it has never been a man's job to look after the money, buy the cakes etc.

I've anecdotally (so probably nonsense) heard of women always being asked to take notes, get coffee and such for meetings, but I've never seen it myself

mc25

About the gender roles in work, I agree it is unfair to always ask the men to do the literal heavy lifting. We should definitely change that!

But for other things, it can be that it's the women always getting asked to do stuff.

For example in my office we have a cake fund (everyone contributes about a tenner a year) and then we use it to get a cake for people on their birthday. In 4 years of working there, it has never been a man's job to look after the money, buy the cakes etc.

I've anecdotally (so probably nonsense) heard of women always being asked to take notes, get coffee and such for meetings, but I've never seen it myself

El_Duderino 09

Silentcorner wrote: »

See...the problem with all that is...no one knows what feminism is anymore...how can any reasoned individual can (often proudly) identify themselves as a feminist is beyond me...the feminism we see in media is all unbalanced gibberish from mainly women who are completely ill informed when it comes to anything that doesn't involve themselves with a cult like loyalty to a rather infantile theory/ideology of "patriarchial oppression".

I have to say, maybe with one or two exceptions, on boards, feminists are even more ignorant of issues facing men than most men are and that is saying something.

What you have identified are real issues and certainly men and women need to educate themselves properly on how our society treats one another but what doesn't help is a clearly divisive movement that is well funded and afforded way more influence than it should receive, the movement itself abuses that power repeatedly...often to the detriment of women I might add...selling useless Gender Studies degrees to women is immoral but what do I know!!!

No that " nobody knows what feminism is any more" is not the problem.with what I said. You're entire post referred to feminism. What men's issues needs is a push to address men's issues. If the solution to men's issues was to whinge, piss and moan about feminism. then men's issues would have been solved in no time.

But the way to actually solve men issues is to campaign to change those men's issues.

suicide_circus

A Paleo Diet or Caveman Diet is lauded for promoting health by confining your diet to food available to hunter gatherers - meat, berries, nuts etc and no dairy, processed foods, refined sugars etc.

How about Paleo gender roles?

One eyed Jack

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

Almost all the opposition to men’s tights issues comes from men though which is a shame.

They’re not designed for men though, of course men are going to have issues wearing them

milehip

[Deleted User] wrote: »

I don't mind carrying items for an old woman or if something is particularly heavy. Often its old files and they are light enough but there can be lots off them. Its sweaty work in a warm office.

Strip down to revel a mankini, doubt you'll be asked again.

Obvious Desperate Breakfasts

I do ponder the lack of acceptance for men wearing skirts and other feminine items. It should be more accepted. And at the extreme end, little boys who decide they want to wear a skirt shouldn’t be thought of as wanting to change their gender. No, maybe they just want to wear a skirt. A lot of the current gender identity thinking actually reinforces old-fashioned notions of gender roles.

One eyed Jack

VayNiice wrote: »

Jaysus you sound like you're living in the 1950s. I bet you abuse lads for wearing fashionable clothes too?

You obviously don’t get out of your echo chamber much if you imagine my views were only predominant in the 1950s. I personally don’t abuse anyone for any reason, I simply choose not to entertain them. If one chooses to dress or behave like a clown, they’re inviting people to laugh at them. I wouldn’t though.

El_Duderino 09

Obvious Desperate Breakfasts wrote: »

I do ponder the lack of acceptance for men wearing skirts and other feminine items. It should be more accepted. And at the extreme end, little boys who decide they want to wear a skirt shouldn’t be thought of as wanting to change their gender. No, maybe they just want to wear a skirt. A lot of the current gender identity thinking actually reinforces old-fashioned notions of gender roles.

The style and type of clothes people wear is the least important part of gender roles in my opinion. But some people will see clothes as a massive step too far.

For me, the clothes other people wear comes under “other people’s business” and is absolutely nothing for me to worry about.

El_Duderino 09

Naggin Merchant wrote: »

Why does it have to be accepted? Every culture has it's norms, break them at your peril.

I'm sure if I lived in an African tribal society and began acting in a freakish and outlandish way I'd soon be ostracized.

Why oppose other people doing something that causes you and nobody else any harm? You don’t have to support anything. But why oppose it?

One eyed Jack

Obvious Desperate Breakfasts wrote: »

I do ponder the lack of acceptance for men wearing skirts and other feminine items. It should be more accepted. And at the extreme end, little boys who decide they want to wear a skirt shouldn’t be thought of as wanting to change their gender. No, maybe they just want to wear a skirt. A lot of the current gender identity thinking actually reinforces old-fashioned notions of gender roles.

It’s not taken seriously because men look ridiculous in skirts. They know it too, but that doesn’t stop them from campaigning to be taken seriously. But that’s why there’s a lack of acceptance for men who choose to wear women’s clothing. It’s not something that one can change as easily as they can choose their wardrobe, as much as designers in the fashion industry have tried to make it a thing for years now.

mr_fegelien

Naggin Merchant wrote: »

Because it disgusts me. If you want to dress as a women then fine but you are not owed my tolerance.

Why does it disgust you more than a woman wearing masculine clothing?

mr_fegelien

One eyed Jack wrote: »

It’s not taken seriously because men look ridiculous in skirts. They know it too, but that doesn’t stop them from campaigning to be taken seriously. But that’s why there’s a lack of acceptance for men who choose to wear women’s clothing. It’s not something that one can change as easily as they can choose their wardrobe, as much as designers in the fashion industry have tried to make it a thing for years now.

Do you think he looks ridiculous?

It's all cultural brainwashing. High heels and skirts were originally worn by men.

jimgoose

Naggin Merchant wrote: »

To answer your question first I'll need you to define what you consider masculine clothing.

I assume your problem is a man in a skirt. Is that because you can see his legs? If so, how do you cope at the pool, matches, fellas out training/jogging, etc?

One eyed Jack

mr_fegelien wrote: »

Why does it disgust you more than a woman wearing masculine clothing?

Women don’t generally wear masculine clothing though. That’s the mistake you’re making. Women’s trousers even, are designed for women. There are a small minority of women who wear men’s clothing, but they’re usually wearing it for performance purposes, and then they can take off the clothes and put on their normal clothes, the very same as David Williams performing in Little Britain - men wearing women’s clothing is done for comedic effect or performance, no different than any performance which is open to interpretation and subjective opinions of it’s merits.

jimgoose

Naggin Merchant wrote: »

The site of mens' legs does not bother me at all. The site of a man in tights, high heels and a skirt would fill me with disgust.

That would be rather odd and certainly a different thing from a woman wearing trousers designed and cut for a woman.