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DART+ (DART Expansion)

murphaph

New propoganda here but it really whets the appetite.....who knows if we'll have the nerve to do it though....

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loyatemu

Zebra3 wrote: »

Is there space for more services between Heuston and Connolly at rush hour?

Possibly not.

L1011

Zebra3 wrote: »

Is there space for more services between Heuston and Connolly at rush hour?

If you're prepared to significantly choke off north-south bus traffic (and cars, but from a PT perspective) there are probably a few spare tramcars available...

Considering they were able to lend a few 3000/4000 series to the Green line before the extra 5000s arrived; but they may not have liked running the fleet that intensively.

Imagine what this would be like if the park tunnel hadn't opened and you had all those commuters landing at Heuston still looking to head in to the city!

LuckyLloyd

The LUAS was never a solution to structural mass transit needs in Dublin. It’s been a good service, but it’s a decade and a half in and inevitably approaching max capacity.

Metro and DART Underground should have been built decades ago, as per their original conceptions and feasibility studies.

p_haugh

loyatemu wrote: »

They expected this when the Luas was built and put in a terminus platform at Heuston for a shuttle service to Connolly. What happened to that?

That’s still a thing, however I don’t think it’s all the frequent

Sam Russell

The Luas needs much higher priority between Heuston and Connolly. Trams sit for several minutes at traffic lights which should never happen. Trams should not even slow down for lights as the lights should anticipate their arrival.

loyatemu

Sam Russell wrote: »

The Luas needs much higher priority between Heuston and Connolly. Trams sit for several minutes at traffic lights which should never happen. Trams should not even slow down for lights as the lights should anticipate their arrival.

as mentioned above, a number of the junctions it crosses are major bus routes (plus the Green line at OCS and Marlborough St.). The one that regularly annoys me is Gardiner St. - it often gets held there while cars go through the junction.

When I was in Cologne many years ago I remember them cut-and-covering sections of the tram network to improve capacity. I wonder if that could ever happen with the Red Line at OCS?

Sam Russell

loyatemu wrote: »

as mentioned above, a number of the junctions it crosses are major bus routes (plus the Green line at OCS and Marlborough St.). The one that regularly annoys me is Gardiner St. - it often gets held there while cars go through the junction.

When I was in Cologne many years ago I remember them cut-and-covering sections of the tram network to improve capacity. I wonder if that could ever happen with the Red Line at OCS?

I understand that, but it takes the same time (longer actually) for a tram to cross OCS if it does not gets priority than if it does.

When the signal goes green, only one tram can cross at a time but many buses can go at one time. This is the nature of trams, so priority does not affect capacity for buses.

Dart trains get priority at level crossings because that is essential for safety. Trams need priority so they travel faster and it will not affect other traffic. [Obviously it needs proper design].

loyatemu

Sam Russell wrote: »

I understand that, but it takes the same time (longer actually) for a tram to cross OCS if it does not gets priority than if it does.

presumably you want better priority so they can run at higher frequency, which would affect traffic on the other street. I'm not entirely disagreeing, it seems mad to build a system for hundreds of millions euros and then have it sit at traffic lights.

Sam Russell

loyatemu wrote: »

presumably you want better priority so they can run at higher frequency, which would affect traffic on the other street. I'm not entirely disagreeing, it seems mad to build a system for hundreds of millions euros and then have it sit at traffic lights.

Let us begin with faster service.

Obviously, a faster service would allow a more frequent service, which in non busy times would not cause problems. In busy times, there are other measures that could mitigate the extra trams, like removal of some cars from the city centre, and the removal of some on street parking.

More enforcement of traffic laws would be more effective for traffic flow as well.

Idbatterim

can they not put longer trams on? or is there an issue regarding increasing the luas platform lengths on that line?

p_haugh

Idbatterim wrote: »

can they not put longer trams on? or is there an issue regarding increasing the luas platform lengths on that line?

I believe there would be issues with longer trams around St. James’s Hospital and also outside Bus Aras due to how tight the bends are.

MrAbyss

p_haugh wrote: »

I believe there would be issues with longer trams around St. James’s Hospital and also outside Bus Aras due to how tight the bends are.

curves are not a problem for trams.

loyatemu

extending the platforms at Jervis could be an issue (this is really going off-topic, but I guess there's not much actually happening with the Dart Expansion).

Idbatterim

well given that nothing will happen with the DU tunnel , if ever! Surely they either have to lengthen the platforms and trams or improve the speed to increase capacity?

Large amount get out at jervis, turning back there or before it hits OCS isnt an option?

AngryLips

Isn't this kind of off-topic?

ncounties

Moral question - should improving existing DART infrastructure be prioritised over expanding the network (e.g. should the dualling of track from Bray to Greystones be carried out before expanding DART services to Dunshaughlin)?

LXFlyer

ncounties wrote: »

Moral question - should improving existing DART infrastructure be prioritised over expanding the network (e.g. should the dualling of track from Bray to Greystones be carried out before expanding DART services to Dunshaughlin)?

Right now the main priority from a heavy rail investment perspective should be completing the city centre re-signalling project (the final phase is focussed on Connolly), electrifying the lines to Maynooth and Hazelhatch, and delivering real capacity enhancements on the northern line.

Then and only then should the rest follow.

prunudo

LXFlyer wrote: »

Right now the main priority from a heavy rail investment perspective should be completing the city centre re-signalling project (the final phase is focussed on Connolly), electrifying the lines to Maynooth and Hazelhatch, and delivering real capacity enhancements on the northern line.

Then and only then should the rest follow.

Exactly, while its welcome to hear they will possibly upgrade Bray to Greystones, there's no point doubling the capacity here to the detriment of the service further north.

Jamie2k9

LXFlyer wrote: »

Right now the main priority from a heavy rail investment perspective should be completing the city centre re-signalling project (the final phase is focussed on Connolly), electrifying the lines to Maynooth and Hazelhatch, and delivering real capacity enhancements on the northern line.

Then and only then should the rest follow.

Not sure how reliable this is but should be completed this year.

Zebra3

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news/dart-expansion-project-set-to-cost-over-600m-more-than-estimate-1.4164672

Costs overrun.

LeinsterDub

Zebra3 wrote: »

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news/dart-expansion-project-set-to-cost-over-600m-more-than-estimate-1.4164672

Costs overrun.

Not really cost overruns , added more things to their shopping list is a more accurate description

Thelonious Monk

Sorry if this has come up already I'm sure it has. I've been doing some lessons in Sandymount the past few weeks and cycling from city centre I get stuck at Sandymount dart station road crossing on the way there and back pretty much every time.
Can they not have some kind of a bridge or underpass in this day and age? Or at least something for pedestrians and bikes? Or is there a reason they want this so as to keep traffic off this road?

Qrt

Thelonious Monk wrote: »

Sorry if this has come up already I'm sure it has. I've been doing some lessons in Sandymount the past few weeks and cycling from city centre I get stuck at Sandymount dart station road crossing on the way there and back pretty much every time.
Can they not have some kind of a bridge or underpass in this day and age? Or at least something for pedestrians and bikes? Or is there a reason they want this so as to keep traffic off this road?

There’s a pedestrian underpass in the station, behind the gate line. Though I think the underpass could be divided with a separate entrance that brings you down avoiding the gate line but I’m not sure.

Thelonious Monk

Qrt wrote: »

There’s a pedestrian underpass in the station, behind the gate line. Though I think the underpass could be divided with a separate entrance that brings you down avoiding the gate line but I’m not sure.

Yeah you still need a ticket to get through though, so it's not much use to people passing by. Oh right I just understood what you meant. Yeah it's ridiculous.

Jamie2k9

LeinsterDub wrote: »

Not really cost overruns , added more things to their shopping list is a more accurate description

There is some cost overrun and it won't be the last...I would maybe add another 500 million by time its finished.

Idbatterim

dont built it when times are "bad" when it would be far cheaper to build and we could keep skilled people here, because we dont have the money. The good times come, dont build it, because its more expensive and we need a hundred public consulatations, before the **** all comes crashing back down again :rolleyes::mad:

loyatemu

Thelonious Monk wrote: »

Sorry if this has come up already I'm sure it has. I've been doing some lessons in Sandymount the past few weeks and cycling from city centre I get stuck at Sandymount dart station road crossing on the way there and back pretty much every time.
Can they not have some kind of a bridge or underpass in this day and age? Or at least something for pedestrians and bikes? Or is there a reason they want this so as to keep traffic off this road?

take a route that doesn't involve the level crossing? There are bridges under the line closer to the city centre. You can also cycle under it along the Dodder beside Lansdowne Rd.

Thelonious Monk

loyatemu wrote: »

take a route that doesn't involve the level crossing? There are bridges under the line closer to the city centre. You can also cycle under it along the Dodder beside Lansdowne Rd.

I'll look at a map now, my usual route is via ballsbridge then down sandymount ave

loyatemu

Thelonious Monk wrote: »

I'll look at a map now, my usual route is via ballsbridge then down sandymount ave

if you hang a left immediately after the bridge in Ballsbridge there's a path that will bring you out on Herbert Road. Just be careful going under the railway itself as it's a narrow passage, probably best to walk that bit.

https://goo.gl/maps/RBP45JsZUbCTwaUn7

Alternatively go down Bath avenue which might be quicker:

https://goo.gl/maps/ks1xw3KxLCrXXV436

MrAbyss

There are also risks that the cost could rise higher with concerns that relocating the existing Docklands rail station to Spencer Dock, which is under consideration by the National Transport Authority, could add at least €100 million to the final bill.

I am assuming they are talking about reopening North Wall station? I didn't realise this was being considered seriously. I certainly hope it is.