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Next % to be banned?

justdoit

I know it's been controversial and that there has been a lot of chat about whether Nike's Next % offers an unfair advantage to wearers, but The Times reporting that it is to be banned:

'The Nike shoe used by Brigid Kosgei to obliterate Paula Radcliffe’s women’s marathon world record last year is likely to be banned when World Athletics introduces new rules on running shoes.

However, the governing body may declare a moratorium that protects the Kenyan’s mark of 2hr 14min 04sec, set in Chicago last October, which is 81 seconds faster than the previous record, set by Radcliffe in 2003.'

I don't wear the shoes, and I definitely don't often trouble the podium, but would a ban like that trickle down to an amateur being precluded from winning a race, like a local half marathon for example?

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Murph_D

KSU wrote: »

She has also opted to not wear her own brands shoe which has seen success with Callum Hawkins as of late

Hasn’t ruled it out for the future though, if we’re talking about the same shoe:

https://www.the42.ie/fionnuala-mccormack-3-4992458-Feb2020/

Trampas

What next they’re wearing more wind resistant singlets and shorts.

Shoes available for everyone so it’s a level playing field.

Chivito550

With a sudden spike in the number of PBs down to harder training, I think it's clear now that those who ran 5-10 years ago were just soft. The current generation are just more hard working.

and still ricky villa

Chivito550 wrote: »

With a sudden spike in the number of PBs down to harder training, I think it's clear now that those who ran 5-10 years ago were just soft. The current generation are just more hard working.

INCOMING!!!!!!

sideswipe

Chivito550 wrote: »

With a sudden spike in the number of PBs down to harder training, I think it's clear now that those who ran 5-10 years ago were just soft. The current generation are just more hard working.

Slightly off topic but saw this yesterday and thought it was interesting:

https://twitter.com/higdonmarathon/status/1224721215170007040?s=20

Would be interesting to ask the same question to former greats like Steve Jones and see what their views are.

healy1835

https://www.outsideonline.com/2408971/nike-vaporfly-controversy#close

ultrapercy

Chivito550 wrote: »

With a sudden spike in the number of PBs down to harder training, I think it's clear now that those who ran 5-10 years ago were just soft. The current generation are just more hard working.

You'r probably being facetious but there is something to this. Distance running standards jad fallen to below what would be considered club standards in the noughties. All anyone talked about was recovery even though most people were not doing enough to recover from. Stretching, foam rolling, s+c, and cross trsining had replaced miles. At the sub elite level at least strava has had a massive impact on training. People can now see exactly what it takes to improve and it isnt easy it take enormous work to run fast times even at sub elite level. Road times are back to the standard of the 80s/90s now but why shouldnt they be? If people with talent are putting in the work results will follow. The shoes have had an impact too but Nike very clecerly caught a wave and exploited it to their own advantage.

Ceepo

Chivito550 wrote: »

Fair play Fionnuala.

https://www.irishtimes.com/sport/other-sports/fionnuala-mccormack-feels-let-down-by-weak-nike-vaporfly-decision-1.4161727

While her decision is admirable, do you think it is the right one for her to take.
The general consensus it that the runners (nike or equivalent) are faster than racing flats, Is she putting herself at a disadvantage

sideswipe

healy1835 wrote: »

https://www.outsideonline.com/2408971/nike-vaporfly-controversy#close

That is probably the best overview of the whole vaporgate debacle I've read, well worth a read.

opus

Next version is one the way!

https://twitter.com/seaningle/status/1225135524404514817

KSU

opus wrote: »

Next version is one the way!

https://twitter.com/seaningle/status/1225135524404514817

Spikes also included in this range and have been dubbed Viperflies. Set to replace the Victories

(Guessing these are the ones Jemma Rekkie and Laura Muir have been in recently)

sideswipe

KSU wrote: »

Spikes also included in this range and have been dubbed Viperflies. Set to replace the Victories

(Guessing these are the ones Jemma Rekkie and Laura Muir have been in recently)

Yep-

skyblue46

opus wrote: »

Next version is one the way!

https://twitter.com/seaningle/status/1225135524404514817

My name is all over these

sideswipe

skyblue46 wrote: »

My name is all over these

Funny, I thought about you as soon as I saw them:)

Swashbuckler

I wonder do they have them in sky blue?

skyblue46

sideswipe wrote: »

Funny, I thought about you as soon as I saw them:)

Swashbuckler wrote: »

I wonder do they have them in sky blue?

No need to worry about the colour. Once you throw away your principles and accept that running is no longer a pure sport, a sport where the fittest/ fastest wins then black is the perfect colour. The same as my soul will be....:(

Cona

Need to be available publicly 4 months before Olympics so really they should be available in February/March?

IvoryTower

I wonder what % the spikes give....

skyblue46

Cona wrote: »

Need to be available publicly 4 months before Olympics so really they should be available in February/March?

The 4 month rule only kicks in on the 30th of April so they don't have to be on sale everywhere until then. Apparently Nike Plus members will be able to try to get some on 29th of this month. Nike have still not mentioned a price.

It was interesting to see the press release mention their ongoing "dialogue" with WA regarding the rules. This sounds very much like the tail wagging the dog! It's pretty clear none of the other shoe companies are lucky enough to have the ear of WA or they wouldn't be hastily rearranging launch dates for their shoes.

Lazare

The cost of vaporflys/alphaflys will exclude most people from the advantages they give.

Until now. Surely Nike will be rattled by this.

4% edge? Pfft.

Nike will not be able to compete with this innovation once it spreads...

Get out and run more miles

mloc123

Whatever about racing in vaporflies... I picked up a pair of 4% in December at 50% off, since I don't run road races these days I wear them usually once a week for an easy 5-10km. They are great recover shoes, legs feel so much fresher after a few easy km in them.

Ceepo

A really good article from Ross Tucker.

Warning it's a long one.....

https://sportsscientists.com/2020/02/running-shoe-tech-the-emperors-clothes-and-the-issues-for-the-integrity-of-running/

ReeReeG

Ceepo wrote:

A really good article from Ross Tucker.

Really enjoyed this, thanks for sharing.

MY BAD

Adidas Adizero prototype. 50mm so not allowed
https://www.instagram.com/p/B8QRMXMH9PY/?igshid=78egqilxtbjs

sideswipe

Ceepo wrote: »

A really good article from Ross Tucker.

Warning it's a long one.....

https://sportsscientists.com/2020/02/running-shoe-tech-the-emperors-clothes-and-the-issues-for-the-integrity-of-running/

Probably worth noting Ross Tucker is a scientific advisor to Adidas.

ahnowbrowncow

Mellow Yellow 26.2 wrote: »

Adidas Adizero prototype. 50mm so not allowed
https://www.instagram.com/p/B8QRMXMH9PY/?igshid=78egqilxtbjs

They look ridiculous.

adrian522

sideswipe wrote: »

Probably worth noting Ross Tucker is a scientific advisor to Adidas.

He mentions the below.

Disclaimer/conflict of interest statement: Since 2009, adidas SA has sponsored a local road race called Two Oceans, and I wrote training programmes for the public for that event on their behalf. I also provided running training and physiology advice to clubs and at workshops sponsored by adidas SA. I had no involvement with the global parent company on shoe development or sales, and at my request, a contract clause that stipulated that I did not comment on or promote their shoes. If that leads you to dismiss the above arguments, that’s your prerogative, though I’d argue that the criticism here is not of Nike, who in fact are acknowledged for making an amazing shoe, but of the policy that allowed it. Your call on interpretation.

and still ricky villa

A wholly unscientific experiment
I'm at the end of a cold so haven't run much. Thought I'd give the Vaporfly's a whirl on the treadmill but wanted to see what they measured like against other shoes. First thing I noticed is they feel odd and were very loud on the belt. Next thing though was that I struggled to keep cadence to ~180 without resorting to tip toeing, if that makes sense. Anyway, results below. Make of them what you will

Treadmill set to 13kmh for all laps. That's slower than my marathon pace and treadmill speeds are fiction anyway. I like you people but not enough to set myself back by running at MP while still sick.
Laps are a standing start to 13kmh as quick as the treadmill gets up to that speed (clock started as soon as I hit Go) Pace is not a question. Only effort.
All laps were followed by a rest until my HR was under 100bpm. HR was wrist based. Argue among yourselves about that one

I'm kind of discounting the first lap. I should have taken a proper warm up first. The Hitogami's are properly knackered and probably dangerous

0-2 Miles - Mizuno Wave Hitogami 2's with over 400 miles on them. Since retired
Avg HR = 138bpm - Max HR = 147bpm

2-4 Miles - Mizuno Wave Rider 22's with over 600 miles n them. Since retired
Avg HR = 145bpm - Max HR = 153bpm

4-6 Miles - Mizuno Wave Rider 23's. Nearly new
Avg HR = 148bpm - Max HR = 154bpm

6-8 Miles - Nike Vaporfly Next%. Never used
Avg HR = 143bpm - Max HR = 147bpm

sideswipe

adrian522 wrote: »

He mentions the below.

Ooops, didn't read the small print. It's a great article, I just don't see any solutions in it, a lot shoulda, woulda, coulda.

I can't see WA going back and halving the permitted stack height as Tucker suggests. The horse has bolted a long time ago on this one, they dropped the ball by not intervening when Adidas, New Balance, Hoka and many more as well as Nike started trying to get 'Stuff' into the shoes and develop special foam etc.

Can anybody really see a fix for this situation?

Tucker suggested Nike had 'Broke Running'. I can't agree with that, Athletics in general has faced huge problems for many, many years. I remember watching Sonia getting beaten by obvious drug cheats and thinking if I had a kid that had obvious talent I'd be very reluctant to encourage them to chase a career in athletics and that was 20 years ago, so to suggest running has been 'Broken' by this is a bit of a stretch for me.

sideswipe

and still ricky villa wrote: »

A wholly unscientific experiment
I'm at the end of a cold so haven't run much. Thought I'd give the Vaporfly's a whirl on the treadmill but wanted to see what they measured like against other shoes. First thing I noticed is they feel odd and were very loud on the belt. Next thing though was that I struggled to keep cadence to ~180 without resorting to tip toeing, if that makes sense. Anyway, results below. Make of them what you will

Treadmill set to 13kmh for all laps. That's slower than my marathon pace and treadmill speeds are fiction anyway. I like you people but not enough to set myself back by running at MP while still sick.
Laps are a standing start to 13kmh as quick as the treadmill gets up to that speed (clock started as soon as I hit Go) Pace is not a question. Only effort.
All laps were followed by a rest until my HR was under 100bpm. HR was wrist based. Argue among yourselves about that one

I'm kind of discounting the first lap. I should have taken a proper warm up first. The Hitogami's are properly knackered and probably dangerous

0-2 Miles - Mizuno Wave Hitogami 2's with over 400 miles on them. Since retired
Avg HR = 138bpm - Max HR = 147bpm

2-4 Miles - Mizuno Wave Rider 22's with over 600 miles n them. Since retired
Avg HR = 145bpm - Max HR = 153bpm

4-6 Miles - Mizuno Wave Rider 23's. Nearly new
Avg HR = 148bpm - Max HR = 154bpm

6-8 Miles - Nike Vaporfly Next%. Never used
Avg HR = 143bpm - Max HR = 147bpm

I'll buy those Hitogami's off you for €275:pac: