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General Election TV debates

Muahahaha

Deserving of its own thread I feel, especially with FF and FG being neck and neck.
Michael Martin and Leo Varadkar about to debate now on TV3, it will be interesting to see how this plays out.

Likely to be a score draw but if Varadkar wobbles at any point it could send the campaign south pretty quick. TV3 reporting that they have a genuine hatred for each other so they'll have to keep emotions in check.

RTE will also be holding a Martin-Varadkar debate as well as one for all the party leaders together.

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gormdubhgorm

Calhoun wrote: »

Watching the debate now, I cannot believe MLM did not answer the special criminal court again.

Yeah she looked flustered and amateurish. The Quinn question sent her in a spin as well. She really needs to be coached more on how to not answer a question while seeming like she answered it - a la Gerry in his pomp.
She also needs to learn her figures as well. Like the way Leo effortlessly throws them in.
Michael Martin only managed to come off looking good because Mary Lou did so badly. Leo did not even have to do anything special to look polished and confident.
I noticed Mary Lou also seemed to shoot herself in the foot, when she tried to goad MM with a mansplaining comment. I thought it was a deliberately sexist comment in order to play up to potential female voters.

Wanderer78

So it really will be FG and ff topping the votes next week!

[Deleted User]

shenanagans wrote: »

Well from post above......I take it FF/greens/labour/FG are not a 'change' in your opinion.

So where does the change you want come from. Where does the change so many people want come from.... Realistically???

I'm just saying in my opinion......I can't see a govt formed without either FF or FG involved.....just based on the maths.....key number being 81.

And im not disagreeing with this

Your right it will probably be a coalition with one of the top parties in charge. Fact is we wont get change and were never going to from the off. I'm not expecting any change.

To be honest, ive never been as disconsolate about the calibre of politician we have in the Dail as I am at the moment. The only policies i can actually get on board with at the moment is the nationalist parties and they are years off gaining any ground in the Dail. 2-5 seats for them would represent a huge achievement in this election

Calhoun

freshpopcorn wrote: »

I think her answer is basically they don't want it.

She had to have known it was going to come up, even if she doesn't like it she should have answered it. She basically let them level a charge of being soft on crime without coming back and taking a stance and what she would do.

gormdubhgorm wrote: »

Yeah she looked flustered and amateurish. The Quinn question sent her in a spin as well. She really needs to be coached more on how to not answer a question while seeming like she answered it - a la Gerry in his pomp.
She also needs to learn her figures as well. Like the way Leo effortlessly throws them in.
Michael Martin only managed to come off looking good because Mary Lou did so badly. Leo did not even have to do anything special to look polished and confident.
I noticed Mary Lou also seemed to shoot herself in the foot, when she tried to goad MM with a mansplaining comment. I thought it was a deliberately sexist comment in order to play up to potential female voters.

The mansplaining point is disgusting and essentially a low blow of someone who has not much else to say. It something they us in America to invalidate the opinion of men for being men. Its not like she didn't get a chance as I felt that MC moderated very well and kept them in line if they over stepped their bounds.

MM I would agree comes off well because of MLM but also because he had a good grasp of his figures as well.

Was funny when he dropped his papers lol.

gormdubhgorm

Calhoun wrote: »

She had to have known it was going to come up, even if she doesn't like it she should have answered it. She basically let them level a charge of being soft on crime without coming back and taking a stance and what she would do.

The mansplaining point is disgusting and essentially a low blow of someone who has not much else to say. It something they us in America to invalidate the opinion of men for being men. Its not like she didn't get a chance as I felt that MC moderated very well and kept them in line if they over stepped their bounds.

MM I would agree comes off well because of MLM but also because he had a good grasp of his figures as well.

Was funny when he dropped his papers lol.

Has anyone picked up on the mansplaining comment in the media?
Can you imagine if MM or Leo said 'good girl yourself' or 'that's women for ya' etc. There would be uproar.

You are right about the moderation they did a good job of keeping them in check - good flow.

Calhoun

gormdubhgorm wrote: »

Has anyone picked up on the mansplaining comment in the media?
Can you imagine if MM or Leo said 'good girl yourself' or 'that's women for ya' etc. There would be uproar.

You are right about the moderation they did a good job of keeping them in check - good flow.

The reason i call it out and where it might be a problem for SF is that they thrive in being the under dog, being counted out and not given a fair chance.

There was allot of that going on in this thread, people implying it would be 3 v 1 but it was fairly fair. Even the final questions before brexit was tailored to weak points in each of their parties/positions and she was the only one that seemed to fudge it and got caught up looking like she lied.

The questions asked on the special criminal court and on Quinn were asked before and she should have been able to answer them easily.

She also seemed to be the only one that resorted to the low blow tactics called out above.

I have allot of thinking to do before i vote.

derfderf

Calhoun wrote: »

The mansplaining point is disgusting and essentially a low blow of someone who has not much else to say. It something they us in America to invalidate the opinion of men for being men. Its not like she didn't get a chance as I felt that MC moderated very well and kept them in line if they over stepped their bounds.

MLM was the winner according to that UCD student. It was on American college campuses that that crap started in the first place, you'd be surprised/disappointed how well that will have went down with some people.

Calhoun

derfderf wrote: »

MLM was the winner according to that UCD student. It was on American college campuses that that crap started in the first place, you'd be surprised/disappointed how well that will have went down with some people.

UCD student ? Doesn't seem to be received well from what I can see online.

zerosugarbuzz

Calhoun wrote: »

The reason i call it out and where it might be a problem for SF is that they thrive in being the under dog, being counted out and not given a fair chance.

There was allot of that going on in this thread, people implying it would be 3 v 1 but it was fairly fair. Even the final questions before brexit was tailored to weak points in each of their parties/positions and she was the only one that seemed to fudge it and got caught up looking like she lied.

The questions asked on the special criminal court and on Quinn were asked before and she should have been able to answer them easily.

She also seemed to be the only one that resorted to the low blow tactics called out above.

I have allot of thinking to do before i vote.

You are seriously clutching at straws here. In the tv3 debate Matt cooper said to Mary loo, “you’ve been making eyes at theses two boys for a long time now and they are not interested”. Or something like this. No one called that out either. Small small stuff.

NIMAN

freshpopcorn wrote: »

I think her answer is basically they don't want it.

Well, its her bosses who don't want it.

[Deleted User]

Missed this? Who would I read for a balanced view on how it went? (Journo on Twitter I’m thinking).

markodaly

MLMD properly found out tonight.

SF rode the anti-establishment wave, hoping they wont be called out on their bull.
Tonight we had some comdey classics such as:

"Mansplaining"
"The demographs will look after themselves"
"I.SUPPORT.THE.COURTS"
"Massive investment"
"Socialists against property tax"
"No to carbon tax, but we are really Green!"

To top it off, caught lying about Paul Quinlan in her Dobbo interview.

Car crash stuff, especially her dithering about the SCC and Paul Quinlan.
As the saying goes, you cannot polish a turd.

facehugger99

Car crash for SF.

Hopefully that will wake up the electorate from what they are in danger of sleepwalking into.

Hard to know though, the stupidity of the electorate can never be underestimated.

Will be interesting to see the next poll when that 'performance' has sunk in.

ThunbergsAreGo

Missed the first 30 mins

Varadker - best performer, facts and figures a few good lines. But think it's too late as people have made up their mind. I like the facts and figures but they might annoy people as showing a lack of emotion

Martin - his best so far, but I think his performance has been so so below the previous election where he really impressed me. Maybe the pressure is gettin to him

McDonald - great at blaming the other two and as the voice of "the others" and my wife liked her hand movements. But no facts or figures with mostly anecdotes and bluster. Caught lying / omitting in two separate interviews, no explanation for buzzwords "massive" and the mansplain comment........ffs.

All in all people have their position from before and it's unlikely to change after this.

Billcarson

facehugger99 wrote: »

Hard to know though, the stupidity of the electorate can never be underestimated.

Indeed, sure they keep voting for either FG or ff. Sinn fein for me. Cant wait for Saturday to cast my vote.

McMurphy

Is there a leadership coup stirring within FG?

I see the Indo are running with a headline hinting at one.

Mantis Toboggan

facehugger99 wrote: »

Car crash for SF.

Hopefully that will wake up the electorate from what they are in danger of sleepwalking into.

Hard to know though, the stupidity of the electorate can never be underestimated.

Will be interesting to see the next poll when that 'performance' has sunk in.

Stupidly of the electorate?

Ah yes let's bring back the same parties that created massive homelessness, a third world health system, most expensive hospital in the world with private practice, NBP a joke, spent millions on a printer FFS, yes stupid indeed.

FrancieBrady

facehugger99 wrote: »

Car crash for SF.

Hopefully that will wake up the electorate from what they are in danger of sleepwalking into.

Hard to know though, the stupidity of the electorate can never be underestimated.

Will be interesting to see the next poll when that 'performance' has sunk in.

Typical arrogance there FH, if they don't vote the way i want, they are stupid,

You and Charlie Flanagan should get along like a house on fire.

Edgware

ThunbergsAreGo wrote: »

Missed the first 30 mins

Varadker - best performer, facts and figures a few good lines. But think it's too late as people have made up their mind. I like the facts and figures but they might annoy people as showing a lack of emotion

Martin - his best so far, but I think his performance has been so so below the previous election where he really impressed me. Maybe the pressure is gettin to him

McDonald - great at blaming the other two and as the voice of "the others" and my wife liked her hand movements. But no facts or figures with mostly anecdotes and bluster. Caught lying / omitting in two separate interviews, no explanation for buzzwords "massive" and the mansplain comment........ffs.

All in all people have their position from before and it's unlikely to change after this.

The undecided wouldn't rush to S F on this performance. They all are shown signs of stress after four weeks of pressure.
If I hear another politician say "We need" the telly is going out the window

Jinglejangle69

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Typical arrogance there FH, if they don't vote the way i want, they are stupid,

You and Charlie Flanagan should get along like a house on fire.

Sure isn't that was Mary Lou says when she calls MM and LV tweedle Dee and Dum.

Basically saying if you vote for them you're stupid.

That's pretty much politics ffs.

FrancieBrady

When journalists go along with the lie...when they cannot, with the resources they have, fact check properly, then your systems are in trouble.

Leo threw this into the debate yesterday knowing full well what he was doing. And probably knowing there would be those in the media who would back him up long enough for it not to matter if it was true or not.

https://twitter.com/harrymcgee/status/1224839823590072321

Jinglejangle69

FrancieBrady wrote: »

When journalists go along with the lie...when they cannot, with the resources they have, fact check properly, then your systems are in trouble.

Leo threw this into the debate yesterday knowing full well what he was doing. And probably knowing there would be those in the media who would back him up long enough for it not to matter if it was true or not.

https://twitter.com/harrymcgee/status/1224839823590072321

Same goes when parties say FG aren't building social housing.

Lies and they are happy to blatantly say it live on air.

smurgen

FrancieBrady wrote: »

When journalists go along with the lie...when they cannot, with the resources they have, fact check properly, then your systems are in trouble.

Leo threw this into the debate yesterday knowing full well what he was doing. And probably knowing there would be those in the media who would back him up long enough for it not to matter if it was true or not.

https://twitter.com/harrymcgee/status/1224839823590072321

The journal debunked it. But sure Leo has gone to trump levels of lying as of late.

NIMAN

For those who think MLMD performance last night has really hurt SF, id say it won't have much.

SF voters will still vote sf.
Many of their new converts still want a change from the old guard, and won't be swayed, especially if they are in the echo chambers online which are saying Mary Lou did great and won the debate.

For those who are questioning intelligence levels of electorate, I remind you not to forget Trump and BREXIT, which everyone said couldn't happen

ThunbergsAreGo

smurgen wrote: »

The journal debunked it. But sure Leo has gone to trump levels of lying as of late.

Some debunk it, others back it up. There is no global definition of homelessness.

Journal debunks, Belfast telegraph says it is
https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/northern-ireland/20000-northern-ireland-households-are-now-homeless-37719853.html

Hannibal_Smith

Wow, I was clearly watching something else. I thought Mary Lou came off well. With the exception of the mansplaining comment. I winced at that.

No, she didnt go into detail. SF never really do.

But it was the same from the other two, you did nothing for 9 years - we were cleaning up after you back and forth.

At the end of the day FG and FF have made a mess of things. And the only thing they united on last night was bashing Mary Lou.

Bringing up the dissolving of power sharing was a low blow from MM and Varadkar bringing up the health and homelessness in the north. For all the time he spent negotiating Brexit, he still doesnt seem familiar with politics in the North :pac:

LV pulling out the debating big guns, but its just throwing figures down a rabbit hole. Where is the money coming from.

The laughable thing is hearing MM and Leo relaying stories they've heard on the campaign trail. Have they had earplugs in the last 10 years? Why are these stories only resonating with them now?

The scarey thing is the way the LPT question was put to Mary Lou by Miriam. Its like we've accepted LPT is here to stay. My understanding was it was only going to be in temporarily until we paid back the EU?

Same as the USC. But looks like thats just going to be fiddled with and not removed?

I cant vote FF and I cant vote FG. Im left wondering, like a lot of people, should I vote SF? Maybe thats why Mary Lou didnt deter me last night. Im holding on to the straw that maybe they might be ok and could they do any worse than the other two?

facehugger99

Mantis Toboggan wrote: »

Stupidly of the electorate?

Ah yes let's bring back the same parties that created massive homelessness, a third world health system, most expensive hospital in the world with private practice, NBP a joke, spent millions on a printer FFS, yes stupid indeed.

Should we bring back the parties that brought us from a €19bn deficit 7 years ago to a budget surplus or a bunch of populist morons with links to terrorists.

Give me a minute to think about that one.

Jinglejangle69

smurgen wrote: »

The journal debunked it. But sure Leo has gone to trump levels of lying as of late.

He said 20,000 people.

The households on the waiting list is 20,000.

People are mixing these up.

smurgen

ThunbergsAreGo wrote: »

Some debunk it, others back it up. There is no global definition of homelessness.

Journal debunks, Belfast telegraph says it is
https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/northern-ireland/20000-northern-ireland-households-are-now-homeless-37719853.html

And if we used the NI definition of homelessness apparently our figure would be 45k.

smurgen

Jinglejangle69 wrote: »

He said 20,000 people.

The households on the waiting list is 20,000.

People are mixing these up.

They're not homeless. Our figure would be 45k if that was the metric.