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Brexit discussion thread XII (Please read OP before posting)

ancapailldorcha

This is the twelfth incarnation of our Brexit discussion thread.

I appreciate that the end of Brexit is or may be in sight (insofar as one can be certain) but please bear the following in mind before posting:

Insults directed at popular figures are not acceptable in this forum
Please do not post memes, videos or comedy links here
Please do not be uncivil to other posters
Please use the report function to alert the mods when necessary
Discussion of Sinn Féin's longstanding policy of abstention from Westminster is not suitable for this thread. Posts on this subject may be deleted

Previous thread is here:

https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2058016732

United Ireland thread:

https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2058014553

Scottish Independence thread:

https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2058023269

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Hurrache

Andrew may be waking up with a sore head today.
[url]

https://twitter.com/afneil/status/1223402712576020482?s=19[/url]

[url]

https://twitter.com/afneil/status/1223415507929518084?s=19[/url]

listermint

Hurrache wrote: »

Andrew may be waking up with a sore head today.
[url]
https://twitter.com/afneil/status/1223402712576020482?s=19[/url]

[url]
https://twitter.com/afneil/status/1223415507929518084?s=19[/url]

Never once seen him take any interest in Irish affairs.

Must of really got up his nose. Gas stuff altogether.

We used to be the wee country to be ignored. Lol

SantaCruz

MrMusician18 wrote: »

A couple of people have posted similar over the different threads we've had over the years but none have ever named companies that are doing this.

I understand the reluctance to name the companies doing this if you're working for them, but you'd expect people to be able to name the former companies they were working for at it even with just natural churn.

Let me join in. The company I work for (a tech 'unicorn') set up its EMEA headquarters immediately after Brexit. There are over 100 of us there now, dwarfing the London office (former HQ) by 4 to 1.

timetogo1

SantaCruz wrote: »

Let me join in. The company I work for (a tech 'unicorn') set up its EMEA headquarters immediately after Brexit. There are over 100 of us there now, dwarfing the London office (former HQ) by 4 to 1.

If you're not willing to name names then they don't believe you. The many news articles of companies that have gone public with their reorgs and moved jobs around isn't enough for them.
Most companies don't go public about this kind of stuff. They don't want to alienate current or future customers with negative news if they're staying in the market.

SantaCruz

Hurrache wrote: »

Andrew may be waking up with a sore head today.
[url]
https://twitter.com/afneil/status/1223402712576020482?s=19[/url]

[url]
https://twitter.com/afneil/status/1223415507929518084?s=19[/url]

Epic Britsplaining here from Mr. Neil. I'm not sure what his expertise is, but it's pretty clear what it is not.

sondagefaux

SantaCruz wrote: »

Epic Britslpaining here from Mr. Neil. I'm not sure what his expertise is, but it's pretty clear what it is not.

His 'expertise' is aggressive bluster. It's considered a positive trait in elite circles in Britain.

pixelburp

I'm guessing then for the next year we're going to get the Dead Cat Bounce effect, with commentators and bad actors wondering what all the fuss is about, while the grace period of continued alignment ticks down and they fail to draw the dots? Things will likely trend downward but those drunk of Hyper Anglophilia won't see the pattern. I hope I'm wrong really, a lot of already moribund towns in England may be staring down the barrel of utter collapse.

Enzokk

CruelCoin wrote: »

I do believe that Bercow should have been jailed for that stunt where he facilitated the ramming of all 3 "readings" of an opposition bill through in 3 hours.
Blatant abuse of the system, and not even trying to hide his bias towards the end of his tenure.

What charge and which law did he break? I mean I want people who irritate me to be jailed for no reason but...you know life doesn't work like that.

MrMusician18

SantaCruz wrote: »

Let me join in. The company I work for (a tech 'unicorn') set up its EMEA headquarters immediately after Brexit. There are over 100 of us there now, dwarfing the London office (former HQ) by 4 to 1.

Again. Unnamed.

ancapailldorcha

timetogo1 wrote: »

If you're not willing to name names then they don't believe you. The many news articles of companies that have gone public with their reorgs and moved jobs around isn't enough for them.
Most companies don't go public about this kind of stuff. They don't want to alienate current or future customers with negative news if they're staying in the market.

MrMusician18 wrote: »

Again. Unnamed.

Mod: Enough of this please. You can take a poster at their word or not but asking them to name their employer is not on.

Christy42

Bit cynical wrote: »

Well, I think trying to sabotage a referendum result is something different to simply "having a different political opinion". However, that they should be jailed is over the top. And, of course, it is only a tiny minority using this kind of language.

Small amounts of people can cause a lot of damage. See the increase in racism reported

Should this include Boris for sabotaging it when he voted against May's deal? Do you expect every single anti abortion campaigner to have pro abortion views here? Will we see Renua doing stunts where they open up abortion clinics? No of course not. They will fight for their point of view as they are entitled. They couldn't fight the result because a referendum in Ireland has legal status but in the UK it is a glorified opinion poll.

If Fine Gael don't act on the latest opinion poll does that make them traitors? Or if they argue against it?

It is dangerous language that will get people killed. It may be a minority but I would expect the leaders to stand up to that talk and shout it down to try some reconciliation instead of encouraging this outright hostility.

Capt'n Midnight

Tacitus Kilgore wrote: »

Just read this article, - what will change after brexit

https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-51194363

It's not particularly truthful is it?

Technically they have shirked their responsibility as a public service broadcaster by answering a different question.

It's like when you cancel a phone or broadband subscription.
You still get service until the termination date but that tells you nothing about what happens afterwards.

As Tony Connelly succinctly puts it
Brexit is done: Now for the hard part

prawnsambo

MrMusician18 wrote: »

Again. Unnamed.

My niece works for a company based in London who are letting a lot of people go. Not her thankfully, but they sell cosmetics into the EU. And no, I don't know the name of the company concerned.

PokeHerKing

MrMusician18 wrote: »

Again. Unnamed.

What happens a Premier league team when they get demoted to the championship? They lose their Premier league class players to clubs still in the Premier league.

That's what's happening with Brexit, the UK are leaving the top tier, they're going to lose business that wants to be still in the top tier. Its really not hard to understand and it's not some weird conspiracy.

There may be opportunities from it for a lot of businesses, much like demotion for a club will give plenty of players who remain at the club opportunity to step up and perform.

If you're not into football try and think of a logical comparison relative to your own interests.

devnull

People won't necessarily name the company they work for because of the fact there are some people who are mad as a hatter out there who will use that information to try and target them. I do not think that anyone should be forced to name their employer on boards, because some anonymous person they don;t know from Adam asks for it.

I have a friend who works for a UK community interest company that gets grants from a certain European fund and they do not know what is going to happen after 2022 when the funding runs out. The reason they went to the EU in the first place for funding was because local government didn't see the need to fund such things properly directly.

The funding was to support some of the most vulnerable and disadvantaged people in society who have all been abandoned by Tory governments who sees them as nothing but a liability and local authorities have wanted to help but the Tories have gutted their funding too so you have areas of the UK who are dependent on EU funding because of the massive funding cuts have hit the poorest in society the most.

Funds like the EU Social Fund have been vital to assisting those who need support the most in an environment of massive Tory cuts to public services and the idea that leaving the EU isn't going to effect people is the typical kind of view of someone who has no idea about the daily struggles of the all but abandoned in society.

Professor Moriarty

A year ago, a friend of mine had to close the English base of a multinational employing 50 people. He told the people there, and it was widely reported in the local media via the company's press releases, that the closure was due to consolidation across Europe. In reality, it was 100% as a result of Brexit instability.

Bit cynical

Christy42 wrote: »

Should this include Boris for sabotaging it when he voted against May's deal? Do you expect every single anti abortion campaigner to have pro abortion views here? Will we see Renua doing stunts where they open up abortion clinics? No of course not. They will fight for their point of view as they are entitled. They couldn't fight the result because a referendum in Ireland has legal status but in the UK it is a glorified opinion poll.

Regarding the referendum as a glorified opinion poll was probably the biggest mistake of the remainers. Legally, of course, it does not carry any weight; that is true, but that is to miss the point of it.

Johnson did vote against the May's deal (although he finally voted for it) so he could be regarded as having betrayed his party or his cabinet but the intent was never to overturn the referendum result. What I think the electorate saw in the activities of the Labour party and some others among the Tories was an attempt to invalidate the Leave vote and this is why they punished those MPs and not Johnson. Even the admittedly dodgy prorogation was not punished in the subsequent election.

But as I have said earlier, I don't think anyone should be jailed. Rejection in the election is the appropriate and sufficient response.

CelticRambler

Sam Russell wrote: »

What is happening about Gibraltar? I thought the transition did not apply to them?

Here ya go: Brexit trade talks: EU to back Spain over Gibraltar claims

The EU will back Spain over its territorial claims to Gibraltar in the next phase of Brexit negotiations by giving Madrid the power to exclude the British overseas territory from any trade deal struck with Brussels.
...
As an EU member state, the UK had been able to resist Spanish claims over the territory but Madrid will now have the full support of the other 26 countries in the bloc.

It'd be funny if Gibraltar of all places was the first to declare independence and seek admission to the EU, or at least the EEA, so as not to be trapped in a protracted battle between the motherland and the continent!

Strazdas

Bit cynical wrote: »

Regarding the referendum as a glorified opinion poll was probably the biggest mistake of the remainers. Legally, of course, it does not carry any weight; that is true, but that is to miss the point of it.

Johnson did vote against the May's deal (although he finally voted for it) so he could be regarded as having betrayed his party or his cabinet but the intent was never to overturn the referendum result. What I think the electorate saw in the activities of the Labour party and some others among the Tories was an attempt to invalidate the Leave vote and this is why they punished those MPs and not Johnson. Even the admittedly dodgy prorogation was not punished in the subsequent election.

But as I have said earlier, I don't think anyone should be jailed. Rejection in the election is the appropriate and sufficient response.

The very holding of the referendum was a catastrophic mistake but yes, once the blasted thing had been held, the UK was in an awful political mess with no easy way out.

It would be like holding an advisory and ill defined referendum on breaking up the UK and abolishing the monarchy i.e. it could only be followed by total chaos if voted for.

breatheme

CelticRambler wrote: »

Here ya go: Brexit trade talks: EU to back Spain over Gibraltar claims

It'd be funny if Gibraltar of all places was the first to declare independence and seek admission to the EU, or at least the EEA, so as not to be trapped in a protracted battle between the motherland and the continent!

It can't. The treaty that gave Gibraltar to the UK states that if they ever become independent, they go back to Spain.

J Mysterio

Happy Brexit Day everyone.

12 threads in and another whole year to look forward to.

SantaCruz

MrMusician18 wrote: »

Again. Unnamed.

Do you really expect me to put easily idenitfiable information here which can be traced back to me? A tiny bit of googling should solve the mystery for you if you actually care.

briany

Saddest thing for Remainers is that the UK can now never again be in the EU with the same deal they had.

The jeopardy for the UK is now much higher. There is still every possibility of no-deal and I'm not sure if parliament can stop it as they had done before. I think the combination of public fatigue and thinking that 'Brexit is done' may well lead to an apathy that the likes of Mark Francois will positively relish, and what seemed like a reasonable withdrawal agreement will in effect be little more than an 11 month deferment of his preferred outcome.

[Deleted User]

According to a couple of posts I've seen on facebook, the supermarkets are using B-Day as an excuse to raise prices.
Petrol prices are also rising, but that's more likely due to world events working through.

Thargor

Good article:

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2020/feb/01/brexit-pointless-masochistic-ambition-history-done

In the early days of the referendum campaign we learned that “on the doorstep” it was all about migration; but we also learned that it was the UK’s decision, not the EU’s, to allow unlimited migration from the accession countries before the permitted seven years were up; it was the UK’s choice to allow EU migrants to stay more than six months without a job; it was the UK that successfully campaigned to enlarge the EU eastwards; it is the UK, not the EU, that lets non-EU migration continue (and why not?) as EU migration declines. We also learned that the UK, not the EU, opted for our maroon rather than patriotic blue passports. Though, as I look, my old passports seem almost black.

Thats the bit Ill never understand, they always had total control of immigration, it was governments on both sides that always allowed it and business that demanded it but a huge chunk of the population was always allowed to think it was the EU forcing this on the UK, you never really saw any anger directed at Blair and Cameron for it, it would come up sometimes but nothing compared to the blame the EU got anyway. Total public disinformation over decades in a first world Western democracy.

[Deleted User]

Thargor wrote: »

Good article:

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2020/feb/01/brexit-pointless-masochistic-ambition-history-done

Thats the bit Ill never understand, they always had total control of immigration, it was governments on both sides that always allowed it and business that demanded it but a huge chunk of the population was always allowed to think it was the EU forcing this on the UK, you never really saw any anger directed at Blair and Cameron for it, it would come up sometimes but nothing compared to the blame the EU got anyway. Total public disinformation over decades in a first world Western democracy.

Proof positive that a vested interest (foreign traders, outside the EU) can influance the elecorate into believing that the EU was the main cause of all their woes and they are better off on the outside, in reality it will be seen as a way of increasing the wedge in their back pockets.
A small number of US multinationals will benefit greatly from a weakened EU.

I would have much preferred the UK remaining and the EU rolling back to the EEC type of a union.

Thargor

Probably just more noise but you would have thought this would have been a bigger story

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2020/feb/01/johnson-to-impose-full-customs-checks-on-goods-from-eu-report

SantaCruz

Thargor wrote: »

Probably just more noise but you would have thought this would have been a bigger story

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2020/feb/01/johnson-to-impose-full-customs-checks-on-goods-from-eu-report

I think if we've learned anything, it's that you can safely ignore anything coming our of the Orwellian Ministry of Truth that is the UK government these days.

Judge by their actions, not their words.

Professor Moriarty

Thargor wrote: »

Probably just more noise but you would have thought this would have been a bigger story

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2020/feb/01/johnson-to-impose-full-customs-checks-on-goods-from-eu-report

I think that's just sabre-rattling. No country could be that foolish...

GM228

Professor Moriarty wrote: »

I think that's just sabre-rattling. No country could be that foolish...

No doubt many have said the same about the UK leaving the EU and some choices it has made.....

You really just don't know what they are willing to do.