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Galway traffic

ben.schlomo

Seemed light this evening, seeing as there doesn't seem to be a thread on traffic here I said I'd start this due to the importance of the issue.

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xckjoo

Wombatman wrote: »

A complete ban on cars is the best way to improve the throughput of cars? What are you on about?

Throughput of people.... That's what it's all about.

timmyntc

Wombatman wrote: »

A complete ban on cars is the best way to improve the throughput of cars? What are you on about?

It's about moving people from A to B.
Improving car throughput is the most inefficient way to do that - better to use road capacity for higher density transport like buses.
Improve throughput of buses by excluding cars from city centre, or by converting lanes to bus lanes - will ultimately give better throughput of people across the city. Which is the end goal, getting people from A to B.

Wombatman

xckjoo wrote: »

Throughput of people.... That's what it's all about.

I've already said that most people choose to use the car because they think it is the most efficient option for them. What can be done to speed up their commute in rush hour?

Let's not go into reasons why the choose the car. We just know that they do, even in the knowledge that they are going to be facing a horrible journey, in rush hour, by any reasonable standards.

xckjoo

Wombatman wrote: »

I've already said that most people choose to use the car because they think it is the most efficient option for them. What can be done to speed up their commute in rush hour?

Let's not go into reasons why the choose the car. We just know that they do, even in the knowledge that they are going to be facing a horrible journey, in rush hour, by any reasonable standards.

Nothing will have a substantial improvement on it. That's the whole point. We need to move people away from driving everywhere or we'll always be choked up with traffic and it'll just get worse if we implement ideas that make the alternatives less attractive.

what_traffic

xckjoo wrote: »

Throughput of people.... That's what it's all about.

Indeed it is! What is perceived as efficient and what actually is...... how are people to be informed /rewarded on this so that they make the best actual choices?

McTigs

Wombatman wrote: »

I've already said that most people choose to use the car because they think it is the most efficient option for them. What can be done to speed up their commute in rush hour?

Nothing. There is quite simply nothing that will improve these people's situation and it would be a costly exercise in futility to even try.

I agree that we need a bypass but anyone who thinks it's a silver bullet for our congestion problems is living in cloud cuckoo land. As long as people are automatically choosing the car they will be also be choosing to be stuck in traffic

zell12

Lights out at Uni Rd/Newcastle Rd
QB westbound reduced to one lane earlier

non-stop fun

Ashleigh1986

zell12 wrote: »

Lights out at Uni Rd/Newcastle Rd
QB westbound reduced to one lane earlier

non-stop fun

Here we go again .
At this rate it would be cheaper to put the Elmore ( company in Dublin that maintains galways traffic lights ) guy up in the g hotel , than have him drive down from Dublin .

[Deleted User]

xckjoo wrote: »

Throughput of cars is orders of magnitude less efficient than any of the alternatives so if that's your priority a complete ban on private car access is the obvious suggestion.
What city has pedestrian walkovers? I've only ever seen them over motor way sized roads.

It depends on your definition of efficiency. No from of public transport be close to as efficient time or effort wise for anyone doing any route that isn’t a straight forward A to B. An awful lot of people’s commute is not just a commute and has a lot c, d and e in it too particularly when living rurally.

xckjoo

what_traffic wrote: »

Indeed it is! What is perceived as efficient and what actually is...... how are people to be informed /rewarded on this so that they make the best actual choices?

Apparently congestion charges have a significant impact but I feel like time would be a better motivator. If it's going to take you (e.g.) 40 mins to drive or 20 mins by bus, you'll probably take the bus.

xckjoo

Jazmin Harsh Gold wrote: »

It depends on your definition of efficiency. No from of public transport be close to as efficient time or effort wise for anyone doing any route that isn’t a straight forward A to B. An awful lot of people’s commute is not just a commute and has a lot c, d and e in it too particularly when living rurally.

Um. That's just not true at all. There's a reason you see a lot of rich finance types taking the Tube to work in London every morning and rubbing elbows with the riff raff. Time is money and all that. Same thing in any city with half decent public transport infrastructure.
And we are talking about the city here, not the country. Ye will probably always have to drive some of the way since houses are so spread out.

[Deleted User]

xckjoo wrote: »

Um. That's just not true at all. There's a reason you see a lot of rich finance types taking the Tube to work in London every morning and rubbing elbows with the riff raff. Time is money and all that. Same thing in any city with half decent public transport infrastructure.
And we are talking about the city here, not the country. Ye will probably always have to drive some of the way since houses are so spread out.

Let’s say someone who works in parkmore, wants to pick up some shopping from tesco and then go for a swim in leisureland before heading home, this would never be doable in any comfort or time without a car (leaving wise the load of shopping, how will you carry it). I just picked a fairly random scenario but you will find 1000’s of different but similar ones. Another example is dropping off kids at at school, picking them up, bringing them to after school things in different corners of the city or suburbs etc etc

donvito99

Jazmin Harsh Gold wrote: »

Let’s say someone who works in parkmore, wants to pick up some shopping from tesco and then go for a swim in leisureland before heading home, this would never be doable in any comfort or time without a car (leaving wise the load of shopping, how will you carry it). I just picked a fairly random scenario but you will find 1000’s of different but similar ones. Another example is dropping off kids at at school, picking them up, bringing them to after school things in different corners of the city or suburbs etc etc

I'm not sure how Galway is supposed to survive as a city when it is seemingly necessary to have a car to go to the shops.

jjpep

Jazmin Harsh Gold wrote: »

Let’s say someone who works in parkmore, wants to pick up some shopping from tesco and then go for a swim in leisureland before heading home, this would never be doable in any comfort or time without a car (leaving wise the load of shopping, how will you carry it). I just picked a fairly random scenario but you will find 1000’s of different but similar ones. Another example is dropping off kids at at school, picking them up, bringing them to after school things in different corners of the city or suburbs etc etc

This used to be fairly routine for me when I lived in Galway (westside). Also dropped kid to school - all on (cue dramatic music) - a bike. Wet weather gear for wet days. Kid still likes to reminisce about our daily cycle to school but we live around the corner now from her current school so she just walks.

I'm not now or then some kind of super fit he man. Like most people, I'm time poor so couldn't afford the uncertainty of commuting by car around Galway so bike made perfect sense. The poor infrastructure made it a challenge but given a choice between stressing about being late to pick up kid from after school or what ever deadline I'd have and dealing with badly designed bike lanes or aggressive drivers, I opted for getting around on a bike.

Now live outside a city in Northern Sweden where more than 50% of people commute by bike or bus, despite the sub zero temperatures. Why? Probably as many reasons as there as people but having a superb infrastructure in place for cycling, buses and walking gives people a choice and it would seem that when people have a choice, the majority opt not to drive most of the time. Like most people here I own a car, and like most people here do, it tends to get left at home most days.

You can keep up your mantra that it doesn't you so it doesn't suit anyone. You can keep saying rural Ireland like its somewhere special that doesn't have mirror images in every country. That's fine. What empirical evidence (and my own anecdotal) tells us is that if you give real options outside of just using cars, people will grasp it.

John_Rambo

Jazmin Harsh Gold wrote: »

Let’s say someone who works in parkmore, wants to pick up some shopping from tesco and then go for a swim in leisureland before heading home, this would never be doable in any comfort or time without a car (leaving wise the load of shopping, how will you carry it). I just picked a fairly random scenario but you will find 1000’s of different but similar ones. Another example is dropping off kids at at school, picking them up, bringing them to after school things in different corners of the city or suburbs etc etc

Excellent points and a good argument for improved and frequent public transport, cross city tramlines, increased urban dwelling, excellent pedestrian & cycle infrastructure and park & ride facilities for the people destined, forced or who choose to live rural.

Tesco shop at the weekend, support indigenous greengrocers and butchers during the week for fresh produce using the age old backpack invention. Everyone wins.

xckjoo

Jazmin Harsh Gold wrote: »

Let’s say someone who works in parkmore, wants to pick up some shopping from tesco and then go for a swim in leisureland before heading home, this would never be doable in any comfort or time without a car (leaving wise the load of shopping, how will you carry it). I just picked a fairly random scenario but you will find 1000’s of different but similar ones. Another example is dropping off kids at at school, picking them up, bringing them to after school things in different corners of the city or suburbs etc etc

LOL. I live in the city and have kids and rarely use a car so don't need the hypotheticals. None of those are issues. Kids and school runs are actually a great example of the benefits of not being car dependent. Far nicer to walk or get the bus with them than to drive (I've done them all). And once they pass a certain age they can be let off to make their own way!

Ruhanna

JCX BXC wrote: »

You're talking about Galway here, a city of 80,000 people which is the most populated in this province?

Yeah, there's no countryside left.................................

Can I have what you're taking?

Where in County Galway, apart from the obvious bits such as huge tracts of mountain and bog, is unspoiled by one-off houses, commuter traffic etc?

No doubt it exists, but it would genuinely be nice to know where it is!

Jazmin Harsh Gold wrote: »

The country side is a place to be lived in and enjoyed not to be admired by people on a day trip out from the city from their tiny houses build on top of their neighbours tiny house.

You have an entire library of broken records, apparently.

Jazmin Harsh Gold wrote: »

my point was the country side is first and fore most a place for living, a community of people living in areas for generations and their families wanting to stay living in the areas.

Nonsense. Years ago there was increasing urbanisation in Ireland, with the children of rural dwellers moving to towns and cities, buying houses and raising families. Urbanisation is still happening, but there is also a relatively new phenomenon: middle class flight to the countryside. These are the people buying the proverbial half acre site to build their detached residence, bungalow or McMansion. Two, three or more cars on the driveway. Kids chauffeured everywhere. Driving into the city and back every day, complaining about all the traffic.

Family farms still exist of course, but let's not pretend that the hundreds of thousands of one-off houses built around County Galway and everywhere else are occupied by innocent shovel-wielding horny-handed sons of the native sod.

cooperguy wrote: »

I live in the centre and I work in Parkmore. I avoid leaving parkmore during peak traffic times.

At the moment myself and my girlfriend (who also works in Parkmore) just about get by with one car. If we dont finish at the same time I have regularly had to go back out to Parkmore to pick her up when there is no sign of a bus (an additional two way car journey).

We would both absolutely use public transport more if it was reliable.

I also dont see how the current system can be made better. Where do the bus corridors go? If there was a solution put out there that meant guaranteed buses every 10/15 mins then I would support it. At the moment bus eireann says it is not practical to put on extra routes or extra buses because there is nowhere for them to go. Open the ringroad then prioritise buses through out the city

Just to be clear: traffic congestion is bad at present, which makes driving a pain. This also means that bus services are unreliable. However, even in congested traffic, driving your own car is better than taking the bus. A ring road is needed to free up road space so that the buses and cars can move freely. Once the cars and the buses are moving freely you would leave your car and take the bus.

Is that a fair summary? Are you saying that you prefer to use your car in congested traffic but you'd prefer to take the bus in free-flowing traffic? If so, why?

cooperguy wrote: »

There is nowhere to put the extra buses, what lanes would you close for bus lanes? Does bus priority work if you cant get buses free flowing up to the traffic lights (genuine question?)

Where exactly is there "nowhere to put extra buses"? It was done on Seamus Quirke Road, for example. Why not elsewhere such as the Quincentennial Bridge and Bothar na dTreabh?

cooperguy wrote: »

There isnt and bus connects is planned for Galway as well. Due by 2027, probably finished before the road at this rate!

Where did you get 2027 from?

Jazmin Harsh Gold wrote: »

Personally I’m am praying no one votes for the greens.

No TD was ever elected by prayer.

Jazmin Harsh Gold wrote: »

Making any of those roads one lane would be absolute instantly, it would make the city a total no go area, a total standstill. Never going to happen thankfully either.

A no-go area for you sounds like a success for everybody else who doesn't want to selfishly drive there car wherever they want whenever they want at whatever speed they want, which appears to be your philosophy. The reason Galway is such a mess traffic and transport wise is that such attitudes have dictated policy for years. It's long past time to put an end to it.

Installing bi-directional bus lanes on a four-lane roadway such as Bothar na dTreabh, for example, is not making the road two lanes. It's still a four-lane public road, only now two of the lanes are being used far more efficiently.

timmyntc wrote: »

Can't do bus lanes on Tuam rd as it's too narrow, you'd have to change it to one way which just wouldn't work.

Where exactly is Tuam Road too narrow for bus lanes?

Ruhanna

Jazmin Harsh Gold wrote: »

I get from my door at home to park 1 metre from the door of work in 30 to 40 mins travelling 25km, usually home in 25 to 30 mins in the evening aside from an odd day here and there

'We desperately need a bypass costing several hundred million Euro to fix the absolutely intolerable constant gridlock. By the way, this is what my cushy commute looks like. I love my car and anyone who tries to foist public transport on me is a Communist or something.'

xckjoo wrote: »

But at least you're honest that your motivations are selfish. Most people will try and mask it.

It's pure unadorned Me Feinism.

ActionHank wrote: »

For a lot of folks working in Ballybrit/Parkmore right now getting a bus would pretty much double their travelling time.

Traffic is so bad that buses are useless and a bypass absolutely must be built. Traffic is not so bad that I would contemplate ever leaving my car. Both of these statements are true?

Jazmin Harsh Gold wrote: »

Let’s say someone who works in parkmore, wants to pick up some shopping from tesco and then go for a swim in leisureland before heading home, this would never be doable in any comfort or time without a car (leaving wise the load of shopping, how will you carry it). I just picked a fairly random scenario but you will find 1000’s of different but similar ones. Another example is dropping off kids at at school, picking them up, bringing them to after school things in different corners of the city or suburbs etc etc

If you want to use your car ad lib, stop complaining about traffic. Every other car addict is trying to do the same, and they too have forfeited the right to complain about the traffic they are actually creating.

cooperguy

Ruhanna wrote: »

Just to be clear: traffic congestion is bad at present, which makes driving a pain. This also means that bus services are unreliable. However, even in congested traffic, driving your own car is better than taking the bus. A ring road is needed to free up road space so that the buses and cars can move freely. Once the cars and the buses are moving freely you would leave your car and take the bus.

Is that a fair summary? Are you saying that you prefer to use your car in congested traffic but you'd prefer to take the bus in free-flowing traffic? If so, why?

Driving a car is massively better than getting the bus. I can get in my car when I am ready to go. If I try to make a bus there is no guarantee it will turn up (and the next one mightn't either). Even in traffic it is way better to be in your car, firstly because you are sitting in a car as opposed to standing waiting for a bus which may never come. But more importantly, you can go the route that has less traffic. First thing I do when I sit in the car is check the traffic on my phone and go the quickest way. I went home a different way today compared to yesterday.

Add a reliable bus service and my family will absolutely use them more. I wont have to travel across town to pick up my partner for example. A second car is potentially on the cards in the next year or so. I can say categorically that would not happen if I could rely on the bus service.

Ruhanna wrote: »

Where exactly is there "nowhere to put extra buses"? It was done on Seamus Quirke Road, for example. Why not elsewhere such as the Quincentennial Bridge and Bothar na dTreabh?

Well in the case of the Quincentennial Bridge Bus Eireann have said its unworkable because of the traffic.

Where did you get 2027 from?

From here: https://www.gov.ie/en/publication/09343007-busconnects-galway/

galwayllm

This list that came out with the most congested cities in the world, I see Limerick is ranked worse than Galway.

I've lived in both places for almost an equal amount of time(10 years), and for me the two places can't even be compared.

Galway is a absolute nightmare and Limerick you can pretty much move when you want and tbh the traffic is never crazy like in Galway. Limerick just works better with the motorway here.

Me thinks there is some spoofing done on this list.

[Deleted User]

donvito99 wrote: »

I'm not sure how Galway is supposed to survive as a city when it is seemingly necessary to have a car to go to the shops.

Unless a person manages their shopping in that annoying way of going to the shop everyday then yes, it is 100% necessary to avoid large amounts of hardship. When I did live in a city suburb (not galway) for a while I could walk to the shop but I never did it once when shopping as why would I want to lug heavy bags home, if it was even feasible to carry all the stuff.

I generally go to the shop once or twice a week and on top of any groceries I would be getting 12 x 1.5litre bottles of water plus a varying number of bottles or cans of beer. Id rarely not need a trolly to get to the boot never mind be expected to carry the stuff onto a bus or walking home.

I also generally stop into two if not three different shops normally off in tangents from each other.

John_Rambo wrote: »

Tesco shop at the weekend, support indigenous greengrocers and butchers during the week for fresh produce using the age old backpack invention. Everyone wins.

I don't shop in tesco personally as I hate the place (mostly shop in supervalue (none in the city) and some stuff from Aldi) but I also don't do shopping at weekends usually as I've better things for doing. I get some stuff from a butcher but only once a week and greengrocers are few and far between with none handy for my usual routes around the city so I generally get all that stuff from the supermarket. Backpacks are for laptops not grown adults lugging around shopping, unless they can't afford a car that is.

xckjoo

Jazmin Harsh Gold wrote: »

Unless you are a person who does that annoying way of shopping of picking shopping everyday then yes, it is 100% necessary to avoid large amounts of hardship. When I did live in a city suburb (not galway) for a while I could walk to the shop but I never did it once when shopping as why would I want to lug heavy bags home, if it was even feasible to carry all the stuff.

How much do you eat??? We do a "big shop" once a week. We either carry it (x1 wheely bags and backpack for the other little bits) or get it delivered. Then we might top up with odds and ends once or twice during the week. It's a simple pop into the shop on the way home. I pass several.

Jazmin Harsh Gold wrote: »

I generally go to the shop once or twice a week and on top of any groceries I would be getting 12 x 1.5litre bottles of water plus a varying number of bottles or cans of beer. Id rarely not need a trolly to get to the boot never mind be expected to carry the stuff onto a bus or walking home.

I also generally stop into two if not three different shops normally off in tangents from each other.

Oh.... That explains it. You realise not everyone is buying boot loads of booze every week don't you? Specially those of us with families. And as my mother used to say "there's plenty water in the tap". Galway city spent a lot of money on a state-of-the-art filtration system a few years ago so no crypto fears any more.

You're looking for issues that aren't there dude (and possibly ignoring your own personal one but that's your business). You're more than welcome to spend your life in you car but a lot of us have no interest in doing that. I've had more free time since I got rid of the car, not less. I'm certainly less stressed. But as I said before, I'm lucky enough to live within walking distance of most things and near a busy bus route. Most people don't have that "luxury" but they deserve it.

xckjoo

Jazmin Harsh Gold wrote: »

I don't shop in tesco personally as I hate the place (mostly shop in supervalue (none in the city) and some stuff from Aldi) but I also don't do shopping at weekends usually as I've better things for doing. I get some stuff from a butcher but only once a week and greengrocers are few and far between with none handy for my usual routes around the city so I generally get all that stuff from the supermarket. Backpacks are for laptops not grown adults lugging around shopping, unless they can't afford a car that is.

:D:D

[Deleted User]

xckjoo wrote: »

How much do you eat??? We do a "big shop" once a week. We either carry it (x1 wheely bags and backpack for the other little bits) or get it delivered. Then we might top up with odds and ends once or twice during the week. It's a simple pop into the shop on the way home. I pass several.

Oh.... That explains it. You realise not everyone is buying boot loads of booze every week don't you? Specially those of us with families. And as my mother used to say "there's plenty water in the tap". Galway city spent a lot of money on a state-of-the-art filtration system a few years ago so no crypto fears any more.

Its hardship, lugging around shopping possibly in the pouring rain. Two bags of shooing can be a fair weight leaving out other things that can add significant weight.

Tap water tastes bad and it’s not sparkling, I only really drink sparkling water. As for beer, the amounts aren’t as big as you are thinking. Even say 12 glass bottles of beer are a fair weight to be carrying on top of water and shopping. Not really relevant but I hate this nonsense of ”those with families” , plenty of beer is as prominent in the fridge of people I know with kids or without them, if anything more so as they might only get out to the pub once a week or once every two weeks.

xckjoo wrote: »

You're looking for issues that aren't there dude (and possibly ignoring your own personal one but that's your business). You're more than welcome to spend your life in you car but a lot of us have no interest in doing that. I've had more free time since I got rid of the car, not less. I'm certainly less stressed. But as I said before, I'm lucky enough to live within walking distance of most things and near a busy bus route. Most people don't have that "luxury" but they deserve it.

Walking to the shop will never be an option for me though, the nearest shop is 5km walk one way along narrow country roads. But I am not using this point in my debate as it’s not applicable to those living in the city. I would see someone living in any suburb as vitally needing a car just as much. The only people I would say who shopping makes more sense without a car would be city centre apartment dwellers or those in the older houses in the city centre.

xckjoo

Jazmin Harsh Gold wrote: »

I would see someone living in any suburb as vitally needing a car just as much. The only people I would say who shopping makes more sense without a car would be city centre apartment dwellers or those in the older houses in the city centre.

I live in a house in the suburbs.

grbear

Imagine having a go at someone for having a backpack and implying that grown adults wouldn't use one before going on to cry about how tap water tastes bad and that carrying bags of shopping is real hardship.

donvito99

Build the bypass because tap water is eww.

Ludikrus

Galway tap water tastes disgusting. A workmate moved to Galway and his dogs wouldn’t drink it until they were desperate.

Back on topic: Build the bypass!

John_Rambo

Jazmin Harsh Gold wrote: »

Backpacks are for laptops not grown adults lugging around shopping, unless they can't afford a car that is.

Who tells you this stuff??? The Tube in London, the Subway in New York, the Luas/Dart in Dublin, the Metro in Paris is full of people with backpacks, often with the daily fresh food shopping popping out of their bags, flowers, bread rolls etc...

Wombatman

Some really sensible and practical initiatives here. The first three are aimed at improving the flow of “cars” would you believe.

https://www.smartertransport.uk/smarter-cambridge-transport-urban-congestion-enquiry/