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Ireland Team Talk XI: Team of nervoUS MOD warning Post 1

[Deleted User]

Continued from here
https://touch.boards.ie/thread/2057953711/251
All Ireland Senior XV related talk here.

MOD: Bear in mind this thread is starting during the World Cup window and the zero tolerance policy is in force. Trolling will be rewarded with an instant ban. For the duration of the tournament any mention of Zebo in this thread will not be permitted, it is just dragging current Ireland squad talk off topic.

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arsebiscuits1

AbusesToilets wrote: »

In a surprise to no-one , conservatism continues to reign. I'll be pleasantly shocked if our style of play shows much evolution from the WC. More likely case of doing the same thing, but harder. At least Scotland should be an easy lay up of a game to start out.

I have to ask.

What did you expect?

Since the RWC, the players and coaches have had barely 2 full weeks together as a squad - with no matches.

Do you think that they will completely change an approach with no time together and no games to actually try it?

Honestly some peoples expectations are baffling.

thebaz

it is a conservative selection - we are playing Scotland , who are in dissaray - we are supposedly starting a new era , and the player of the last few months - Cooney is on the bench - and worse still, POM is also on it.

yerrahbah

The Rape of Lucretia wrote: »

POM can only be dropped from the 23 with his agreement, and not just just a simple decision by the coaching team. He will leave on his own terms, at a time of his choosing, and with a banner of a height that he will specify. Farrel and co would have it in their contracts a prohibition them from dropping him without POM proposing it unless a sequence of very stringent criteria are met which go up to and including approval from the Council of State.

:eek:

arsebiscuits1

thebaz wrote: »

it is a conservative selection - we are playing Scotland , who are in dissaray - we are supposedly starting a new era , and the player of the last few months - Cooney is on the bench - and worse still, POM is also on it.

I fully agree.

Gonzaga just made history beating Blackrock and not a single player from that great side made the matchday 23 for Ireland.

Why did we hire Farrell if he isn't going to pick on (extremely recent) form?!

Sure he has access to data we don't have. And he fully understands how the players might gel as a squad.

And sure he might be unwilling to completely change the spine of the team which is a pretty important factor.

I WANT IMMEDIATE CHANGE DAMMIT

aloooof

AbusesToilets wrote: »

Players who are not in form, picked ahead of players who were. Contrast that to say France, where a load of experienced heads were dropped in favor of guys tearing it up this season. Plus ça change indeed

If "we should have done what France did" is your argument, it would have been a spectacularly weak argument over the last 10 years or so. How about we wait to see how France do before lauding them? And equally, wait to see how Ireland do before criticising Farrell?

But whatever way you slice it, 5 changes to the starting 15 is not conservative. (I honestly think some people wouldn't be happy even if Andy picked the exact 15 they had suggested...)

prawnsambo

aloooof wrote: »

If "we should have done what France did" is your argument, it would have been a spectacularly weak argument over the last 10 years or so. How about we wait to see how France do before lauding them? And equally, wait to see how Ireland do before criticising Farrell?

But whatever way you slice it, 5 changes to the starting 15 is not conservative. (I honestly think some people wouldn't be happy even if Andy picked the exact 15 they had suggested...)

That's exactly it. People have their favourites and go completely OTT if they don't get a starting position. It's so facile.

thebaz

arsebiscuits1 wrote: »

I WANT IMMEDIATE CHANGE DAMMIT

yeah, lets conveniantly forget another World cup failure - again - players should be picked on form.
Same stuff was spat out during WC , just trust coach and everthing would be alright - turned out well.

Shefwedfan

moritz1234 wrote: »

And the best performer against the AB, PoM dropped.

Nothing to be shouting about to be honest

Ireland got hammered that day and everyone was awful, POM included....maybe you think he was a little less awful than other players but he was still awful

aloooof

thebaz wrote: »

yeah, lets conveniantly forget another World cup failure - again - players should be picked on form.
Same stuff was spat during WC , just trust coach and everthing would be alright - turned out well.

Andy Farrell, "conveniently forgetting the World Cup failure " by.... making 5 changes to the starting 15. Hmmmm.

Seriously, no professional team in the world, in any sport, picks solely on form.

prawnsambo

thebaz wrote: »

yeah, lets conveniantly forget another World cup failure - again - players should be picked on form.
Same stuff was spat out during WC , just trust coach and everthing would be alright - turned out well.

Well unless you get the coaching gig, you're just another hurler on the ditch with just about the same kind of weight to your opinion. What people say here has absolutely no bearing on how the team play. And calling out the selections as if they're the wining or losing of games is about as facile as it gets.

thebaz

aloooof wrote: »

Seriously, no professional team in the world, in any sport, picks solely on form.

Seriously !!!

Shefwedfan

AbusesToilets wrote: »

Players who are not in form, picked ahead of players who were. Contrast that to say France, where a load of experienced heads were dropped in favor of guys tearing it up this season. Plus ça change indeed

France dropped a load of form players because of age....I wouldn’t be putting them up in lights

prawnsambo

Meanwhile in the real world, Mike Catt running a training session with an AFL ball for some reason.

prawnsambo

Shefwedfan wrote: »

France dropped a load of form players because of age....I wouldn’t be putting them up in lights

I'd have more fear of France being coached by Shaun Edwards than whatever number of young fellas that have been called up. Though being France, that may just end up being more confused.

prawnsambo

Opinions. Everyone has one.

Granny15

AbusesToilets wrote: »

In a surprise to no-one , conservatism continues to reign. I'll be pleasantly shocked if our style of play shows much evolution from the WC. More likely case of doing the same thing, but harder. At least Scotland should be an easy lay up of a game to start out.

One things for sure if Murray goes back into box kicking mode and giving away possession I hope Farrell hooks him. I’m sure there is a game plan but I think the players are given freedom to operate inside that plan and sometimes take decisions that may not be in the best interest of the teams attacking position.

bilston

prawnsambo wrote: »

I'd have more fear of France being coached by Shaun Edwards than whatever number of young fellas that have been called up. Though being France, that may just end up being more confused.

I fancy France for the title this year. But the key game is Le Crunch, if they win that they will have a great chance.

bilston

Granny15 wrote: »

One things for sure if Murray goes back into box kicking mode and giving away possession I hope Farrell hooks him. I’m sure there is a game plan but I think the players are given freedom to operate inside that plan and sometimes take decisions that may not be in the best interest of the teams attacking position.

There's nothing wrong with a good box kicking strategy. I am more concerned about how slow the ball is sometimes when he has been playing 9 for Munster this season. He needs to up the tempo a bit. When he does he remains our best 9.

Yeah_Right

moritz1234 wrote: »

And the best performer against the AB, PoM dropped.

You're using the tallest dwarf argument. It's not a good technique.

And for the record, I don't think he was the best performer against the ABs. What did he do that was so good?

Bridge93

Apart from cooney starting and maybe Pom dropping out totally, what else did people expect? Addison if not injured can feel aggrieved but big bad joe picked him too so that’s hardly anything new age

AbusesToilets

Yeah_Right wrote: »

You're using the tallest dwarf argument. It's not a good technique.

And for the record, I don't think he was the best performer against the ABs. What did he do that was so good?

Probably referring to the Croker match

budhabob

Granny15 wrote: »

One things for sure if Murray goes back into box kicking mode and giving away possession I hope Farrell hooks him. I’m sure there is a game plan but I think the players are given freedom to operate inside that plan and sometimes take decisions that may not be in the best interest of the teams attacking position.

Box kicks are a team strategy. Blame the coach not the player.

[Deleted User]

bilston wrote: »

I fancy France for the title this year. But the key game is Le Crunch, if they win that they will have a great chance.

They have the talent but you can't predict anything with France.

The ingredients seem to be coming together but it's not the first time. A squad breaking scandal is never far away.

prawnsambo

bilston wrote: »

There's nothing wrong with a good box kicking strategy. I am more concerned about how slow the ball is sometimes when he has been playing 9 for Munster this season. He needs to up the tempo a bit. When he does he remains our best 9.

He's certainly capable of it. Just seldom seems capable of maintaining that tempo for long periods.

reg114

bilston wrote: »

There's nothing wrong with a good box kicking strategy. I am more concerned about how slow the ball is sometimes when he has been playing 9 for Munster this season. He needs to up the tempo a bit. When he does he remains our best 9.

The weather forecast for the match is windy with a possibility of rain which isnt conducive to a box kicking kind of game. Id have preferred to have seen Cooney in for Murray, the latter has been getting by on reputation for over a year in the green jersey.

sydthebeat

reg114 wrote: »

The weather forecast for the match is windy with a possibility of rain which isnt conducive to a box kicking kind of game.

?????????

If anything, a forecast like that will lead to MORE box kicking

molloyjh

Loosehead:
No real debate to be had on the 3 lads selected, nor the guys in the 23 this weekend. Possible argument for Killer starting but nobody can have any real issue with Healy starting.

Hooker:
Niall Scannell dropped with Heffernan and Kelleher both coming in. Not exactly a conservative selection and with the youngest and most inexperienced on the bench this weekend despite an injury layoff I cant see any cause for complaint here either.

Tighthead:
Furlong and Porter are undisputed first and second choice. John Ryan dropped in favour of O'Toole. Again, not exactly conservative. No cause for complaints here.

Second Row:
Hard to see how squad selection could have been any different here. Dillane taking Kleyns place is a clear change from Joe's tenure. I can understand why some would want Dillane ahead of Toner on the bench but that's about it.

Back Row:
Doris, Deegan and O'Donoghue in with Ruddock and Jordi Murphy dropping out is certainly progressive. POM dropping to the bench is a big change based on history. Some might look to see Deegan on the bench ahead of POM, but I can understand selecting POM there.

Scrum Half:
Cooney jumping ahead of McGrath clearly shows Farrell is paying attention to form. Again some will complain about Murray being selected, but if Cooney has missed a few training sessions due to HIA that's probablynfair enough.

Out Half:
Little to be said here. Selection for the wider squad and match day were always straight forward.

Centres:
Ringrose and Farrell at outside centre were nailed on. Inside centre was always going to tight between Aki, Henshaw and McCloskey. Not much to really discuss there.

Back Three:
Rob Kearney gone and form guys like Larmour and Conway are starting. Other than the Henshaw selection at 23 theres not much to discuss here either. But bearing in mind Addison has apparently had a few injury concerns in camp and Earls has yet to train theres not a lot here in reality.

So the only areas for discussion would be Dillane over Toner on the bench, Deegan over POM on the bench, Cooney over Murray in the starting 9 jersey and Addison over Henshaw in the 23 jersey. 3 of thosen4 talking points are related to the bench. 2 of the 4 are explained by injuries and a lack of training time. I'm really not sure how this could possibly be considered overly conservative.

thebaz

molloyjh wrote: »

So the only areas for discussion would be Dillane over Toner on the bench, Deegan over POM on the bench, Cooney over Murray in the starting 9 jersey and Addison over Henshaw in the 23 jersey. 3 of thosen4 talking points are related to the bench. 2 of the 4 are explained by injuries and a lack of training time. I'm really not sure how this could possibly be considered overly conservative.

Selecting Murray over Cooney and POM over Deegan, are conservative selections

The Rape of Lucretia

thebaz wrote: »

Selecting Murray over Cooney and POM over Deegan, are conservative selections

Thus good and correct selections.

sydthebeat

thebaz wrote: »

Selecting Murray over Cooney and POM over Deegan, are conservative selections

There has to be a balance between radical and conservative.

There are seven changes between this starting fifteen and the one named against Scotland at this time last year.

Guys like Stockdale, Larmour and Conway are still relatively green at international level so they need experienced around them. In the forwards, that back row has me very, very excited and I can see them doing untold damage. Put onto that the hard carrying of Henderson, Ryan, church and furlong...with kelleher from the bench too.

In all its an enthusiastic and progressive selection for me, now let's see how they go and play.