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Ireland Team Talk XI: Team of nervoUS MOD warning Post 1

[Deleted User]

Continued from here
https://touch.boards.ie/thread/2057953711/251
All Ireland Senior XV related talk here.

MOD: Bear in mind this thread is starting during the World Cup window and the zero tolerance policy is in force. Trolling will be rewarded with an instant ban. For the duration of the tournament any mention of Zebo in this thread will not be permitted, it is just dragging current Ireland squad talk off topic.

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ionadnapóca

Vinnie222 wrote: »

Earls is injured

Hmm.... I thought it was because of his performances.
In all seriousness If Earls appears during this 6Ns I would be proper concerned about Farrell as a selector.

Zzippy

thomond2006 wrote: »

OUTRAGE

It's been 8 years. The Bull is 46 years old. Come on Thomond, it's ok to let go...

fitz

Zzippy wrote: »

It's been 8 years. The Bull is 46 years old. Come on Thomond, it's ok to let go...

He was never as good as Furlong or Porter either.

*hides*

Utah_Saint

awec wrote: »

If this back row selection is true, and Cooney is at least on the bench, then I am warming to Farrell. I'll warm even more if unlike his predecessor he's actually willing to use his sub halfbacks.

Even warmer if he picked his 12 on form.

awec

Utah_Saint wrote: »

Even warmer if he picked his 12 on form.

Baby steps Utah, baby steps. You can't expect perfection right out the gate.

It'll take more than 1 game for the shackles of Schmidt to fall loose. We must remain positive.

lawrencesummers

The Rape of Lucretia wrote: »

Well, POM is a sensitive topic. For understandable reasons.

In effect, for Munster fans, he is the last link to the Thousand Year Thomond. For those reared on the hunt for the Holy Grail, and a series of Liginds stretching back through Paulie, Axel, Bull, Fester, The Claw, Gollimh, etc, POM is the last carrier of that mythical flame. A Munster rugby mindset. And with it, the dreadful reality, that the age of liginds is fading away.
That it was a brief moment in time, and not an assertion of eternal rugby superiority the Munster way, with a conveyor belt of eternally renewing talent of that level is hard to accept. People's dreams, beliefs, and a way of life, all hang on POM now, for they know that with him, the delicate thread link to that era will die.

POM is, The Last of The Liginds.

You forgot keeth.

mfceiling

lawrencesummers wrote: »

You forgot keeth.

Fester.

Zzippy

Utah_Saint wrote: »

Even warmer if he picked his 12 on form.

You're right. Bundee should indeed be there

bilston

I'm fairly relaxed about the prospect of Murray starting. Scotland play at 100mph, a bit of composure and more of a methodical approach at 9 may not be the worst thing.

Cooney will hopefully get a good 15-20 mins to inject some pace when the opposition start to tire.

prawnsambo

bilston wrote: »

I'm fairly relaxed about the prospect of Murray starting. Scotland play at 100mph, a bit of composure and more of a methodical approach at 9 may not be the worst thing.

Cooney will hopefully get a good 15-20 mins to inject some pace when the opposition start to tire.

I don't think Scotland tire tbh. Always a pretty fit team.

lawrencesummers

If that team as reported is to start then it’s a good start from Farrell. It shows some competition and change from before.

As always I think our chances depend on sexton, if we can have him for 70 minutes of every game then a 6N title is a possibility, but I can’t see us winning it without him in the big games.

Addison is a lively player and very attack minded, he looks to be able for the step up but we won’t know until he gets a run of games.

I genuinely fear for stockdales form, he dipped way down in 2019 from a Dizzy high of 2018, so hopefully In 2020 we see the 2018 version of him because his finishing was way down until a gift from a poor Munster team in ravenhill.

If Doris can operate effectively in the lineout on both balls then he has every chance of securing his starting place because he brings the potential for a lot more around the field, it’s a big debut if he starts but he has cool Heads either side.

Hopefully Cooney gets 30 minutes, Murray can play territory and manage the clock Early but Cooney injects a lot more and he could become the ideal finisher, Joe wasn’t a big believer in it at times but the World Cup showed the importance Yet again of the bench.

Having killer, cooney, Dillane and kelleher off the bench makes for some decent ball carrying fast play impact.

thomond2006

Zzippy wrote: »

It's been 8 years. The Bull is 46 years old. Come on Thomond, it's ok to let go...

Zzippy, I'm warning you.

Never go full Buer.

ionadnapóca

bilston wrote: »

I'm fairly relaxed about the prospect of Murray starting. Scotland play at 100mph, a bit of composure and more of a methodical approach at 9 may not be the worst thing.

Cooney will hopefully get a good 15-20 mins to inject some pace when the opposition start to tire.

I think Ireland will comfortably beat Scotland regardless of who is at SH.

Id prefer if Cooney was given his due and Murray a kick up the hole

Bridge93

Is Larmour fit or injured? Story seems to move daily

Squidgy Black

Bridge93 wrote: »

Is Larmour fit or injured? Story seems to move daily

It was a "low grade" injury before they left for Portugal to go to camp, they had said it shouldn't be an issue but don't think there's been any update on it since.

Neil3030

I want Ireland moving toward a wider, less structured/predictable attacking game, requiring forwards that offer both carrying and distributing threat.

So my XV would be:

Addison
Larmour
Ringer
Bundee
Stockdale
Sexton
Cooney
Healy
Kelleher
Tadhg
Toner
Ryan
Stander
VdF
Doris

Attacking game game built around Ryan and Doris as primary ball carriers, both with decent hands, allowing Stander, Healy and Kelleher to carry in wider channels where they can be far more effective. VdF will be relied on less for ball-carrying, instead serving as a dynamic link man, forcing defences to stay wide. The whole idea is to generate mismatches for the power runners (Stander et al) or gaps and overlaps for the likes of Cooney, Ringer, Bundee etc. to exploit. Addison at 15 ensures solid decision/play makers at 10, 13 and 15. Stockers and Larmour then offer two very different forms of X-factor on either flank.

Subs, I'd go with:

Herring
Killer
Porter
Henderson
Deegan
McGrath
Burns
Earls

Noteable absentees:

POM - As soon as you put Stander at 6, POM is at best going to bench, and I'd rather have a more dynamic ball carrier to bring on who can also slot into the distribution requirements of the forwards in this system.
Murray - his strengths won't suit such an unstructured game; for me he either starts (under a different philosophy) or drops out of the 23 entirely. McGrath can offer a more likewise replacement for Cooney.
Byrne - If (when) Sexton has to go off injured, I'd much rather Cooney pairs up with his regular dance partner.
Henshaw - I prefer Bundee to Henshaw, as he'll ultimately make more things happen in an unstructured attack. It then came down to Henshaw vs Earls for the 23 shirt; with Larmour and Addison already in the starting XV, it's more important to have wide, rather than centre cover, so Earls got the nod (plus he can also do a job at 13 in an emergency).

Noteable non-startes:

Earls - tbh, I'd be happy enough with him or Larmour starting on the right flank, very close call, but again, I just feel Larmour offers more when the game breaks down.
Henderson - Again, tight call between him and Toner; but with a young hooker starting, best to ensure there's a stable target in the lineout to settle his nerves. If Kelleher grows in to the starting shirt, I'd migrate toward Henderson as the starter, and possibly drop Toner out of the 23 for Kleyn or even Dillane if he gets back to form.

swiwi_

Bridge93 wrote: »

Anyone who names a potential side with three names for one position should just not bother

Swiwi's possible side to face Scotland

Cian Healy/Kilcoyne/McGrath, Heffernan/Kelleher/Herring, O'Toole/Porter/Furlong, Henderson/Dillane/Ryan/Toner, Deegan/Doris/O'Donoghue/O'Mahony/Stander/van der Flier

Cooney/Murray/McGrath, Byrne/Sexton/Burns, Aki/Ringrose/Henshaw, Addison/Conway/Earls/Larmour/Stockdale/Kearney

Few close calls there, but I reckon I've pretty much nailed it.

molloyjh

swiwi_ wrote: »

Swiwi's possible side to face Scotland

Cian Healy/Kilcoyne/McGrath, Heffernan/Kelleher/Herring, O'Toole/Porter/Furlong, Henderson/Dillane/Ryan/Toner, Deegan/Doris/O'Donoghue/O'Mahony/Stander/van der Flier

Cooney/Murray/McGrath, Byrne/Sexton/Burns, Aki/Ringrose/Henshaw, Addison/Conway/Earls/Larmour/Stockdale/Kearney

Few close calls there, but I reckon I've pretty much nailed it.

Good to see you nailing your colours to the mast swiwi!

Buer

Happy enough with the team. Cooney can absolutely feel hard done by to not be starting. Hopfully he gets 25 minutes from the bench and gets a real opportunity to have an impact. Murray has improved his performances significantly however and if we've Stockdale and Conway in the team, I've no doubt box kicking is going to be a strong feature once more.

I'd spare a thought for guys like JOD, Aki, Toner, McCloskey, Dave Kearney and Luke McGrath who have been tearing it up for their provinces but are supposedly outside the 23.

I'll be genuinely excited to see how Addison and Doris get on in the team. They're by far the most exciting additions to the side for me. If he was fit, I'd have had Addison in our 23 well before now. Doris is an interesting one. I've said before I expected him to be a 50+ cap international but I'm tempted to go one further and say he's a dark horse to be Irish captain at some point.

Burkie1203

Neil3030 wrote: »

Murray - his strengths won't suit such an unstructured game; for me he either starts (under a different philosophy) or drops out of the 23 entirely. McGrath can offer a more likewise replacement for Cooney.

Henderson - Again, tight call between him and Toner; but with a young hooker starting, best to ensure there's a stable target in the lineout to settle his nerves. If Kelleher grows in to the starting shirt, I'd migrate toward Henderson as the starter, and possibly drop Toner out of the 23 for Kleyn or even Dillane if he gets back to form.

Keith wood made a point on OTB last night that i never thought of before.

Having a captain type person on the bench to be fresh in the last 20 as others tire to make clear decisions is one factor to consider
Murray Henderson Toner fit that bill.

yerrahbah

Toner and POM outside the 23?

Id argue that they are our best two line out operators.

I'd hope for Farrells sake the lineout goes well against Scotland if that is the call

Is Dillane now ahead of Toner?

salmocab

yerrahbah wrote: »

Toner and POM outside the 23?

Id argue that they are our best two line out operators.

I'd hope for Farrells sake the lineout goes well against Scotland if that is the call

Is Dillane now ahead of Toner?

I wouldn’t get caught up in thinking x is ahead of y even after this team announcement. It will take a few matches before we get a clear picture.

thomond2006

Dillane ahead of Toner?

It depends if the depth chart is set up that way. Toner might still be ahead of Dillane for a starting role.

molloyjh

yerrahbah wrote: »

Toner and POM outside the 23?

Id argue that they are our best two line out operators.

I'd hope for Farrells sake the lineout goes well against Scotland if that is the call

Is Dillane now ahead of Toner?

Toner either starts or doesnt feature. He doesnt offer a whole lot off the bench really. For me I'd start Toner to secure the line out with an inexperienced hooker, then bring in Henderson and POM off the bench to offer impact around the park and maintain the security of the line out. But if Henderson starts then Dillane is the right choice for the bench IMO.

Clegg

yerrahbah wrote: »

Toner and POM outside the 23?

Id argue that they are our best two line out operators.

I'd hope for Farrells sake the lineout goes well against Scotland if that is the call

Is Dillane now ahead of Toner?

Toner and POM start or aren't in the 23 at all. Neither offer impact off the bench. Makes sense that you have Dillane and Deegan in there instead. More powerful athletes.

Toner's in great form and I can see a scenario where he starts ahead of Dillane. Bit for a bench spot it makes sense for the better athlete to be there.

Buer

Toner is 34 this summer. He's playing very well but I've no complaints if he's being phased out now for someone like Dillane and to continue to develop the Henderson/Ryan partnership.

For a bench spot, Dillane makes far more sense though. As long as we don't lose shape, it would be great to see Kilcoyne, Dillane, Deegan and Cooney come on for the last 20 minutes.

yerrahbah

Sorry i should have clarified that Dillane is ahead of Toner for a sub spot,
if a starting spot were to become available I'd expect Toner to start ahead of Dillane

Former Former

Given his age and his utter shafting by Joe, Toner is doing well to still be involved. Definitely the right call to be giving the bench spot to someone like Dillane.

[Deleted User]

Former Former wrote: »

Given his age and his utter shafting by Joe

I'm a long time fan, advocate and defender of Toners, but he wasn't shafted by Joe.

Joe didn't set out to ruin Toners aspirations, he set out to win a world cup and got it wrong. Personalising a squad selection decision is futile in a professional game.

Former Former

Deleted User wrote: »

I'm a long time fan, advocate and defender of Toners, but he wasn't shafted by Joe.

Joe didn't set out to ruin Toners aspirations, he set out to win a world cup and got it wrong. Personalising a squad selection decision is futile in a professional game.

Well, from what we subsequently heard, Toner was never really in the running for the RWC. No one is going to convince me that Jean Kleyn was a better choice and I'd love to hear Joe's explanation for not picking him. The real one, not the bullsh*t he came out with.