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General Election TV debates

Muahahaha

Deserving of its own thread I feel, especially with FF and FG being neck and neck.
Michael Martin and Leo Varadkar about to debate now on TV3, it will be interesting to see how this plays out.

Likely to be a score draw but if Varadkar wobbles at any point it could send the campaign south pretty quick. TV3 reporting that they have a genuine hatred for each other so they'll have to keep emotions in check.

RTE will also be holding a Martin-Varadkar debate as well as one for all the party leaders together.

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Fann Linn

JP Liz V1 wrote: »

FF needs Labour and Green Party hence his Micheal sucking up to Eamon and Brendan

Howlin edging towards SF according to reports on twitter.

jimmycrackcorm

Matt Barrett wrote: »

Don't know how SF will do but its obvious FF/FG are worried.

There was a comment in the analysis after that MM was really worried. I don't think FG are because a coalition is out of the question there. But the pressure will be on for FF/SF.

The commentary suggested MMs thought is 'over my dead body', but that's the like scenario if polls are accurate.

On another note, I couldn't help but think that RTE let SF have the last word because of the whole huffing and puffing about ML not being in the other leaders debate.

shenanagans

https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/election-2020/head-to-head-how-did-the-seven-party-leaders-fare-in-rtes-election-debate-38901745.html

Indo has MM as best performance. LV and Mary Lou next.....

Fann Linn

shenanagans wrote: »

https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/election-2020/head-to-head-how-did-the-seven-party-leaders-fare-in-rtes-election-debate-38901745.html

Indo has MM as best performance. LV and Mary Lou next.....

Quelle Surprise.

easypazz

shenanagans wrote: »

https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/election-2020/head-to-head-how-did-the-seven-party-leaders-fare-in-rtes-election-debate-38901745.html

Indo has MM as best performance. LV and Mary Lou next.....

They gave rbb 4/10 and he was the obvious winner, its just he has only about 4 candidates and wont go anywhere.

easypazz

JP Liz V1 wrote: »

FF needs Labour and Green Party hence his Micheal sucking up to Eamon and Brendan

I doubt they will have the numbers, they will need either fg or sf somewhere along the way

Calhoun

OMFG hahahahha, the picture of Eamon in the indo article.

IRISH%20El%20%206.jpg

On topic, if FF and FG can get more milage out of the special criminal court and other shady **** they can knock them down a bit. Especially consider all the crap going on in drogheda ect.

It would have to be FF to push it though as FG has a less of a leg to stand on.

Fann Linn

Calhoun wrote: »

OMFG hahahahha, the picture of Eamon in the indo article.

On topic, if FF and FG can get more milage out of the special criminal court and other shady **** they can knock them down a bit. Especially consider all the crap going on in drogheda ect.

It would have to be FF to push it though as FG has a less of a leg to stand on.

And FF shut Templemore.

Suckit

shenanagans wrote: »

https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/election-2020/head-to-head-how-did-the-seven-party-leaders-fare-in-rtes-election-debate-38901745.html

Indo has MM as best performance. LV and Mary Lou next.....

That reads as though they are guessing FF will be next in power. Joe Duffy-eque with the popular opinion.
I would agree Róisín Shortall was invisible for much of it, but when she spoke, she spoke well. If Eamon Ryan got 4/10, then Róisín got 6.
MM with 7 is a joke. LV with 5 may be accurate, he got agitated, made a few mistakes and made very few decent points.
Would not agree with most of that article.

YFlyer

Calhoun wrote: »

OMFG hahahahha, the picture of Eamon in the indo article.

On topic, if FF and FG can get more milage out of the special criminal court and other shady **** they can knock them down a bit. Especially consider all the crap going on in drogheda ect.

It would have to be FF to push it though as FG has a less of a leg to stand on.

Savage Eye.

James Brown

Howlin and shortall made a good point. It is arrogant to say you won't work with this person or party. They need work for the country.
Case in point, FF being the worst thing on earth according to FG, then FG sign up for 'stability' with FF, yet won't wear SF. It's ego and self preservation f*** all to do with stability.

Calhoun

Might be easier to work with said party if they could shake off the spectre of the black hand that follows them around.

Its also easier for the small nobodies to say something like that when given a snifter of power they would sell out fast.

They both were labor party members when it ****ed over allot of its core ideals, only difference being shorthal threw a strop over the primary care centres.

Calhoun

Fann Linn wrote: »

And FF shut Templemore.

True but that was 11 years ago, so they have a bit more of an edge over FG when it comes to it.

Arghus

Not saying that any of the other crowds are any way more capable, but the spectre of FF making promises about loads of houses getting built should give people a sense of deja vu - and send a shiver up their spine.

StupidLikeAFox

Calhoun wrote: »

OMFG hahahahha, the picture of Eamon in the indo article.

.

He's like a lad coming back to school after the summer holidays, explaining what he got up to with "a girl who goes to a different school in a different town so you prob don't know her"

Phoebas

Calhoun wrote: »

On topic, if FF and FG can get more milage out of the special criminal court and other shady **** they can knock them down a bit. Especially consider all the crap going on in drogheda ect.

Peadar Toibin has thrown a big spanner in the SF works on who controls Sinn Fein.

Sinn Féin TDs have 'zero' influence and policies are handed down, says Tóibín

We used to get a lot of this from FF & FG but now it's coming from the horse's mouth.

https://m.independent.ie/irish-news/election-2020/sinn-fein-tds-have-zero-influence-and-policies-are-handed-down-says-toibin-38901964.html

McMurphy

Suckit wrote: »

That reads as though they are guessing FF will be next in power. Joe Duffy-eque with the popular opinion.
I would agree Róisín Shortall was invisible for much of it, but when she spoke, she spoke well. If Eamon Ryan got 4/10, then Róisín got 6.
MM with 7 is a joke. LV with 5 may be accurate, he got agitated, made a few mistakes and made very few decent points.
Would not agree with most of that article.

The author of that article must have been watching a completely different debate than the rest of the country was watching, Michael Martin most definitely did not come out as the winner in that debate, he came across as flustered, stuck for words, and even childish in some cases, obviously doesn't like being reminded of the IMF coming to town, them denying it, and the pension reserve being raided also seemed to be a sore point with him, with him only able to answer his opponent with raising his eyes to heaven.

I would actually have placed Leo ahead of Martin - but only marginally.

Richard Boyd Barrett was the clear winner, with Mary Lou a very close second, this probably being her stand out moment.

https://twitter.com/rtenews/status/1221930191624331266?s=19

Leo looked completely stumped there.

Roisin and Brendan should have just stayed at home, and Eamon Ryan should have stayed in bed.

McMurphy

Phoebas wrote: »

Peadar Toibin has thrown a big spanner in the SF works on who controls Sinn Fein.

Sinn Féin TDs have 'zero' influence and policies are handed down, says Tóibín

We used to get a lot of this from FF & FG but now it's coming from the horse's mouth.

https://m.independent.ie/irish-news/election-2020/sinn-fein-tds-have-zero-influence-and-policies-are-handed-down-says-toibin-38901964.html

The Indo wouldn't have given Tobin the time of day while he was a member of the party, now he's outside the tent looking in , his world is gospel.

They (the Indo) should be very careful their articles don't do exactly the opposite of what they're hoping to achieve with their obvious attempts at sabotage.

christy c

McMurphy wrote: »

The Indo wouldn't have given Tobin the time of day while he was a member of the party, now he's outside the tent looking in , his world is gospel.

They (the Indo) should be very careful their articles don't do exactly the opposite of what they're hoping to achieve with their obvious attempts at sabotage.

So to sum up, it's the indo that's the problem. And SF shouldn't be criticised in case it increases their support.

Phoebas

christy c wrote: »

So to sum up, it's the indo that's the problem. And SF shouldn't be criticised in case it increases their support.

Peadar Toibin is going to be mightly pissed off this morning when he sees that story the Indo invented.

smurgen

Phoebas wrote: »

Peadar Toibin is going to be mightly pissed off this morning when he sees that story the Indo invented.

More hyperbolic statements from the Finnerbots. This is going to backfire completely. The unwillingness to see the public Mood shift and the constant attacking of those in the middle reminds me of the time Hillary called non Hillary supporters the deplorables.

McMurphy

christy c wrote: »

So to sum up, it's the indo that's the problem. And SF shouldn't be criticised in case it increases their support.

Absolutely not, the Indo can criticise them all they want, I'm just pointing out how Tobins word will now be gospel despite how his word (or the word of any sitting TD within SF) not being good enough for them while in the party.

It's reminiscent of the Boston tapes, and Mairia Cahill tbh, ex provos, who became opponents of the GFA and Adams (dissidents) say bad things about Adams or Sinn Fein, so now their word is gospel.

It has a bang of hypocrisy of it, the enemy of my enemy is my friend.

As I said, this is definitely not Sinn Feins Sean Gallagher moment, and I say that as someone who will not be voting for them in this election.

rdwight

Ted Howell get a mention in the debate at all?

christy c

McMurphy wrote: »

Absolutely not, the Indo can criticise them all they want, I'm just pointing out how Tobins word will now be gospel despite how his word (or the word of any sitting TD within SF) not being good enough for them while in the party.

Suppose I agree, but that's life isn't it? Similar to how some people had no time for Alan Shatter for example, but when he criticised FG his word was used as a stick to beat them.

Personally I don't really care about this, it's more about the economy for me and as Mary Lou demonstrated again last night they haven't a clue (even compared to the geniuses in FF and FG).

FrancieBrady

Has a more odious, power hungry sleeveen 'politician' as Michael Martin emerged in this country in the last 20 years?

He would sell his granny for the job. No humility for his part in the crash and bankrupting of the country, no responsibility for the current mess in Health, Housing etc

He walked into haymakers last night on the above yet the equally desparate and sleeveen Indo has him as the winner??

I will say it now, I'd prefer Leo to remain as Taoiseach than that man get the job.
My favourite outcome would be an internal FF revolt on coalition with SF.

Snow Garden

Leo's line about nutters in every party still makes me smile.

He is so right.

McMurphy

christy c wrote: »

Suppose I agree, but that's life isn't it? Similar to how some people had no time for Alan Shatter for example, but when he criticised FG his word was used as a stick to beat them.

Personally I don't really care about this, it's more about the economy for me and as Mary Lou demonstrated again last night they haven't a clue (even compared to the geniuses in FF and FG).

This tbh, there's more than enough legitimate reasons to critique SF than innuendo about the RA.

The Indo readers will be predominately of a certain vintage who will have their minds made up about the shinners and the conflict up North already, so there's no point trying to preach to the already converted.

It's the younger generation they need to appeal to, and they won't be doing that through their online articles, or hard copies either.

The younger generation (who it seems according to breakdown of the polls) that are responsible for the surge in polls, who obviously view the troubles or the past IRA connections as ancient history, and therefore irrelevant.

I heard it best described in a conversation between a father and son who I know quite well, the da said he could never vote Sinn Fein because he was a child of the 60s and remembered the troubles, his son said that the 60s were 50-60 years ago, and 50-60 years before that was the era of the era of Collins and Dev, and wondered was their a time limit on how far back he was to be outraged?

The da went quiet.

rdwight

McMurphy wrote: »

This tbh, there's more than enough legitimate reasons to critique SF than innuendo about the RA.

The Indo readers will be predominately of a certain vintage who will have their minds made up about the shinners and the conflict up North already, so there's no point trying to preach to the already converted.

It's the younger generation they need to appeal to, and they won't be doing that through their online articles, or hard copies either.

The younger generation (who it seems according to breakdown of the polls) that are responsible for the surge in polls, who obviously view the troubles or the past IRA connections as ancient history, and therefore irrelevant.

I heard it best described in a conversation between a father and son who I know quite well, the da said he could never vote Sinn Fein because he was a child of the 60s and remembered the troubles, his son said that the 60s were 50-60 years ago, and 50-60 years before that was the era of the era of Collins and Dev, and wondered was their a time limit on how far back he was to be outraged?

The da went quiet.

Not much of a rhetorican your friend's Da, is he? If he's a child of the 60's (and the Troubles had only begun at the very end of that decade) his son is probably a child of the 80's or 90's and should at least have been aware of the killing of Garda McCabe (and Ferris' subsequent behaviour) and the Omagh bombing.

Not that I'm doubting it, but your story has the ring of an Enda Kenny tale about meeting a man in a pub.

Phoebas

rdwight wrote: »

Not that I'm doubting it, but your story has the ring of an Enda Kenny tale about meeting a man in a pub.

That crossed my mind too.

McMurphy

rdwight wrote: »

Not much of a rhetorican your friend's Da, is he? If he's a child of the 60's (and the Troubles had only begun at the very end of that decade) his son is probably a child of the 80's or 90's and should at least have been aware of the killing of Garda McCabe (and Ferris' subsequent behaviour) and the Omagh bombing.

Not that I'm doubting it, but your story has the ring of an Enda Kenny tale about meeting a man in a pub.

The Omagh bomb was the actions of Sinn Feins opponents, dissident Republicans, which takes us back to what I was saying about Mairia Cahill.