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Builder disappeared

gark

Looking for some advice or any ideas..

My builder disappeared, and I'm unable to reach him or anyone in the company since Christmas...

I signed the contract in May, the scope was extension +porch + insulation + renovation (turn key).
Workers showed up a month later, but then they kept disappearing for weeks at times.
Builder's estimate was 10-12 weeks for this job, and it's still not done: no porch, no heating system, no extension door, no kitchen/bathroom.

Back in the summer the subcontractor who was building the extension walked away as he didn't get paid.

A week ago the electrician called me saying he will probably walk away as well, he is owed over 8k at this stage...He was also told by someone in the company, that they are planning to close down this company and start another one..

My guess now is that he never pays anyone, that would explain why workers disappear for weeks, and it's always new people showing up after that..

They have the phone number of the 2 directors and the construction manager on their website. I keep calling them without any luck.

Interestingly I got a text from one of the director's last week saying he was out with the flu, but he will come back to me this week. This didn't happen.
Also we were supposed to meet after Christmas to discuss sanitary ware for the bathroom, but he cancelled.

The company was set up at the end of 2015, can't really imagine how they could have survived this long with this attitude.

At this stage I have paid 95% (plastering complete was the last stage).

Not sure what the next step could be.. can I claim against their insurance?

I guess if they went bust, I will have to accept that the money is gone.. and I will have to find another builder to finish the works?

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BryanF

OP if your considering going the legal route, suggest you don’t give away too much on a public forum. Perhaps start with getting a QS to inspect and value the works complete, and review any paperwork associated.

Effects

gark wrote: »

The plan is to have cavity wall insulation for the extension and external insulation for the porch and rest of the house.

Sounds a bit odd that they didn't insulate the cavity when they were building the wall.

Well, first fix is more or less finished I think - one of the newly built walls is not cabled though.

Is the wall plastered then, or just block built so far?

forgottenhills

Casati wrote: »

This is substantial amounts of money involved so I would advise the OP to get legal advice of this. I would not presume the builder has no assets nor presume their company will simply fold. Yes this could take time in court but the amounts are v high

Builders are not above the law

Builders are not above the law but law is very expensive in this country.

To go down the law route:

1. The OP will need to engage a QS or other builder or architect to assess the state of works done, whether the work done so far is satisfactory and how much is left to do out of the original contract. And by the way other builders don't like coming into these messy situations.

2. The OP will then have a spend a couple of thousand with a solicitor to pursue the case and if it has to go to the High Court then will have to pay a barrister many thousands to take the case.

3. Even if you win the case you may find that you have a judgement against a company and /or directors with no assets.

So very expensive, unknown outcome and process could take years.

My first port of call would be to personally visit the builder at his house or where he drinks or wherever he goes out publicly and make a nuisance of yourself until he agrees to give money back or complete the work.

lawred2

gark wrote: »

Unfortunately it's the other way around.
I paid 95% of this 100k already.
The job is really far from being 95% finished...

Christ. Where did you find this guy? Did he come recommended? Or was he the only one who answered?

[Deleted User]

forgottenhills wrote: »

My first port of call would be to personally visit the builder at his house or where he drinks or wherever he goes out publicly and make a nuisance of yourself until he agrees to give money back or complete the work.

Or maybe get a friend to ring him to ask him to come out and give a quotation for a similar kind of job, and OP will be the one to answer the door to him when he calls.

con747

gark wrote: »

Looking for some advice or any ideas..

My builder disappeared, and I'm unable to reach him or anyone in the company since Christmas...

I signed the contract in May, the scope was extension +porch + insulation + renovation (turn key).
Workers showed up a month later, but then they kept disappearing for weeks at times.
Builder's estimate was 10-12 weeks for this job, and it's still not done: no porch, no heating system, no extension door, no kitchen/bathroom.

Back in the summer the subcontractor who was building the extension walked away as he didn't get paid.

A week ago the electrician called me saying he will probably walk away as well, he is owed over 8k at this stage...He was also told by someone in the company, that they are planning to close down this company and start another one..

My guess now is that he never pays anyone, that would explain why workers disappear for weeks, and it's always new people showing up after that..

They have the phone number of the 2 directors and the construction manager on their website. I keep calling them without any luck.

Interestingly I got a text from one of the director's last week saying he was out with the flu, but he will come back to me this week. This didn't happen.
Also we were supposed to meet after Christmas to discuss sanitary ware for the bathroom, but he cancelled.

The company was set up at the end of 2015, can't really imagine how they could have survived this long with this attitude.

At this stage I have paid 95% (plastering complete was the last stage).

Not sure what the next step could be.. can I claim against their insurance?

I guess if they went bust, I will have to accept that the money is gone.. and I will have to find another builder to finish the works?

Op, you have a signed contract which I would think is legally binding. Go and see a solicitor to find out your chance of getting either your money back or work finished. Most if not all solicitors will give a first consultation free, I would do this asap.

gark

Effects wrote: »

Sounds a bit odd that they didn't insulate the cavity when they were building the wall.

Is the wall plastered then, or just block built so far?

They said they will inject the insulation at a later stage.
Yes the walls are plastered at this stage.

gark

lawred2 wrote: »

Christ. Where did you find this guy? Did he come recommended? Or was he the only one who answered?

-snip-
I called some of the references, and all seemed ok.
There were a couple of other quotes.

gark

forgottenhills wrote: »

Builders are not above the law but law is very expensive in this country.

To go down the law route:

1. The OP will need to engage a QS or other builder or architect to assess the state of works done, whether the work done so far is satisfactory and how much is left to do out of the original contract. And by the way other builders don't like coming into these messy situations.

2. The OP will then have a spend a couple of thousand with a solicitor to pursue the case and if it has to go to the High Court then will have to pay a barrister many thousands to take the case.

3. Even if you win the case you may find that you have a judgement against a company and /or directors with no assets.

So very expensive, unknown outcome and process could take years.

My first port of call would be to personally visit the builder at his house or where he drinks or wherever he goes out publicly and make a nuisance of yourself until he agrees to give money back or complete the work.

Unfortunately he lives far away from Dublin, and I don't know exactly where he lives.

gark

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

Or maybe get a friend to ring him to ask him to come out and give a quotation for a similar kind of job, and OP will be the one to answer the door to him when he calls.

They don't pick up the phone any more. No matter who calls, I and my friend tried to call them from different phone numbers many times. One of the phone numbers also has the mailbox full (been trying to call since the beginning of Jan.)

forgottenhills

gark wrote: »

Unfortunately he lives far away from Dublin, and I don't know exactly where he lives.

You will just have to try and find him. Google could be your friend.

If you find out the area where he lives then visit the local post office, shops, builders suppliers or pubs and someone should know his address. Say you are delivering something to him and have lost his address and he is not answering the phone. You may have to get creative.

The good news is that if he lives in a rural area then people who do so are often very sensitive about their local reputation and if people start turning up in their locality asking questions about them and looking for money back then this might spur them into action.

I once was having difficulty getting a deposit back from a landlord who was retaining it for no good reason. I showed up at his home address and politely asked for the return of my deposit. His wife was there and I had the deposit cheque in the post the next day.

gark

forgottenhills wrote: »

You will just have to try and find him. Google could be your friend.

If you find out the area where he lives then visit the local post office, shops, builders suppliers or pubs and someone should know his address. Say you are delivering something to him and have lost his address and he is not answering the phone. You may have to get creative.

The good news is that if he lives in a rural area then people who do so are often very sensitive about their local reputation and if people start turning up in their locality asking questions about them and looking for money back then this might spur them into action.

I once was having difficulty getting a deposit back from a landlord who was retaining it for no good reason. I showed up at his home address and politely asked for the return of my deposit. His wife was there and I had the deposit cheque in the post the next day.

I found a planning application of him, and based on that he seems to live in Enniscrone.

It'q quite far from Dublin, but I wouldn't mind going there, just wondering does anyone think this is a good idea ?

Shaunoc

Great idea, live updates please

the_pen_turner

have you looked him up on cro . that will have the adress his business is registered at

Jurgen Klopp

Any halting site near you? A few quid to some entrepreneurs living there can bring excellent results in recovering stolen assets

ravendude

I would find where he lives. Pay a PI if need be, they have some tricks but you might be able 5o find it yourself, - sounds like you have a good lead with that planning application. Start calling to his house and be a pest. He needs to know you wont go away.
Talk to some debt collector agencies to "follow up" with him "regularly", there are a few around Dublin and elsewhere that are tough cookies that will lean on him.

forgottenhills

gark wrote: »

I found a planning application of him, and based on that he seems to live in Enniscrone.

It'q quite far from Dublin, but I wouldn't mind going there, just wondering does anyone think this is a good idea ?

Enniscrone is a long way from Dublin. Before I would go all that way I would maybe ring the local parish priest there, explain the situation and start off by saying that you are concerned that the builder may be ill. Priests tend to know stuff going on in their parish and may divulge some details in a case like this, particularly if you are a woman (a few tears on the phone wouldn't go amiss). If he states that yes, the builder lives there but he hasn't heard that the builder is ill then I would ask to confirm his address as you need to visit him to talk about finishing your house. I would also ask him if said builder has a reputation for leaving jobs half finished etc. Worth a shot to travel with some prior information. If you travel down and the builder doesn't answer his door don't be afraid to have a chat with his neighbours who may be able to fill you in. Everybody tends to know everyone else's business down the country whihc is useful sometimes! You may need to plan to call on him late evening and early morning if he is evasive. And of course it would be better to bring someone with you if possible.

ravendude

gark wrote: »

I found a planning application of him, and based on that he seems to live in Enniscrone.

It'q quite far from Dublin, but I wouldn't mind going there, just wondering does anyone think this is a good idea ?

Don't rule out that this might be a summer house or some side project he is doing, and maybe not his primary resdence.

[Deleted User]

forgottenhills wrote: »

Enniscrone is a long way from Dublin. Before I would go all that way I would maybe ring the local parish priest there, explain the situation and start off by saying that you are concerned that the builder may be ill. Priests tend to know stuff going on in their parish and may divulge some details in a case like this, particularly if you are a woman (a few tears on the phone wouldn't go amiss). If he states that yes, the builder lives there but he hasn't heard that the builder is ill then I would ask to confirm his address as you need to visit him to talk about finishing your house. I would also ask him if said builder has a reputation for leaving jobs half finished etc. Worth a shot to travel with some prior information. If you travel down and the builder doesn't answer his door don't be afraid to have a chat with his neighbours who may be able to fill you in. Everybody tends to know everyone else's business down the country whihc is useful sometimes! You may need to plan to call on him late evening and early morning if he is evasive. And of course it would be better to bring someone with you if possible.

And there was me thinking the halting site idea was silly. Haha. :pac::D

forgottenhills

Deleted User wrote: »

And there was me thinking the halting site idea was silly. Haha. :pac::D

I have explained why i think the OP should try a few things before heading down the legal route as that is expensive, uncertain and could take months/years while a house remains unfinished. I also don't think that involving criminals in chasing down the builder is a great idea. And also remember that this isn't a case of chasing down a debt. The builder can even claim that the money paid over was due to him at that exact stage of the project as per the letter of the agreed contract. It was the contract that was faulty in having 95% of the money due before 95% of the deliverables were in place.

I have suggested doorstepping the builder and have suggested a few ideas to help do this. My idea may or may not work but costs little and is worth a shot in my view. Do you have any bright ideas for the OP that won't involve criminality or going down the legal route, which would have major drawbacks in the real world as I have pointed out?

[Deleted User]

forgottenhills wrote: »

I have explained why i think the OP should try a few things before heading down the legal route as that is expensive, uncertain and could take months/years while a house remains unfinished. I also don't think that involving criminals in chasing down the builder is a great idea. And also remember that this isn't a case of chasing down a debt. The builder can even claim that the money paid over was due to him at that exact stage of the project as per the letter of the agreed contract. It was the contract that was faulty in having 95% of the money due before 95% of the deliverables were in place.

I have suggested doorstepping the builder and have suggested a few ideas to help do this. My idea may or may not work but costs little and is worth a shot in my view. Do you have any bright ideas for the OP that won't involve criminality or going down the legal route which would have major drawbacks in the real world as I have pointed out?

Going to the builder's house is one thing, and not a dreadful idea, but approaching the local priest is a completely pointless task and would get you nowhere.

Sligo is a distance from Dublin, though. So, me personally; I'd ask about on the Sligo forum here on boards before making my next move. Find out if he's known in the area to any of the users of that forum. Perhaps try a sligo facebook 'buy and sell' type of page either, and try find him that way.

[Deleted User]

gark wrote: »

They don't pick up the phone any more. No matter who calls, I and my friend tried to call them from different phone numbers many times. One of the phone numbers also has the mailbox full (been trying to call since the beginning of Jan.)

They must have changed their number. You need to find the new number.

topmanamillion

I wouldn't be driving all the way to Ennis without a very good plan OP and being 100% sure you have his home address.
What if he answers the door, tells you to p1ss off and shuts the door again?

Based on his behaviour I can't see him just cutting you a cheque or following you back and finishing off the work. Best case he answers the door promises the earth and the moon and you don't hear from him again.

He hasn't been answering his phone as it's jammed with voicemail messages and he owes your electrician €8000 so chances are you're part of a long list of debtors.

First off you need some legal advice.
The figures involved here are substantial sums.
€95,000 spent with a fraction of that money having been spent on an incomplete job.

You need to sit down with a decent solicitor skilled in this area and ask what are your chances of recovering your money?
Is there any sort of a fund/insurance that you can access?

mickdw

Number one rule regardless of who you are dealing with or what contract is signed is to do your best to keep the right side of the contractor money wise.
He cannot afford to take the piss then and if he does, it's his loss.
There will be cases where money has to be paid up front - kitchen companies ordering in site specific stuff generally want a hefty deposit but to go to 95 of funds paid with only 40 to 50 percent of works done was foolish in the extreme.

con747

I'm not sure if naming the building company is allowed on the forum, if it is the Op might get a reply from other people in the same situation with the builder. If not Mods please say if it's not.

forgottenhills

Deleted User wrote: »

Going to the builder's house is one thing, and not a dreadful idea, but approaching the local priest is a completely pointless task and would get you nowhere.

Sligo is a distance from Dublin, though. So, me personally; I'd ask about on the Sligo forum here on boards before making my next move. Find out if he's known in the area to any of the users of that forum. Perhaps try a sligo facebook 'buy and sell' type of page either, and try find him that way.

If you think that looking for info from a parish priest in a rural area would be a waste of time then you don't know much about rural life. I am not saying that a PP would solve any problems. I am saying that the OP might be able to get valuable info by phone from the likes of a PP before embarking on a long trip, if the OP explains his/her problems to the PP. The local publican is also typically a good source of info but unlikely to say anything to a stranger on a phone. Nor will the Gardai.

Try the Sligo forum too, try Facebook, try everything, but in my mind ringing the PP might be the best bet to get some reliable info remotely in this type of scenario.

con747

If we knew who the building company is it would be a lot easier to narrow down the directors.

BryanF

thread closed. OP contact the mods if you want to discuss