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Ireland Team Talk XI: Team of nervoUS MOD warning Post 1

[Deleted User]

Continued from here
https://touch.boards.ie/thread/2057953711/251
All Ireland Senior XV related talk here.

MOD: Bear in mind this thread is starting during the World Cup window and the zero tolerance policy is in force. Trolling will be rewarded with an instant ban. For the duration of the tournament any mention of Zebo in this thread will not be permitted, it is just dragging current Ireland squad talk off topic.

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mfceiling

Granny15 wrote: »

That's strange for some reason I thought the team was being announced today at 2pm.

Must've been Thursday not Tuesday. Was there some talk about that?

It's Monday. Connors turned the calendar back on you.

aloooof

kilns wrote: »

If we have to hang on and bring on a defensive player (one who tackles) Id rather one of the younger back rows come on a get tested rather than an out of form player who we know what he offers. Experience counts for nothing if you are playing rubbish

Just an opinion

Tackling isn't the only part of defense, tho; securing you own lineout, lineout steals and jackaling / turnovers would all come under that banner as well.

We'll see soon enough who Farrell goes with in any case.

kilns

aloooof wrote: »

Tackling isn't the only part of defense, tho; securing you own lineout, lineout steals and jackaling / turnovers would all come under that banner as well.

We'll see soon enough who Farrell goes with in any case.

Fair enough, it does but my point is why bother picking a totally out of form player (as I said if you playing dogsh1T no amount of experience will make up for that) to do that rather than a younger player who will learn from it and offer you more in attack. In reality he is a luxury player as he does not offer enough in his overall game and therefore a waste of seat on the bench. Against Scotland we can get away with that, but if we are to move on an improve we need to have guys who bring much more overall

Again its my opinion Farrell will be making that call and unfortunately from my point of view I think he will have POM involved

salmocab

mfceiling wrote: »

It's Monday. Connors turned the calendar back on you.

Only to get his calendar turning stats up though.

aloooof

kilns wrote: »

Fair enough, it does but my point is why bother picking a totally out of form player (as I said if you playing dogsh1T no amount of experience will make up for that) to do that rather than a younger player who will learn from it and offer you more in attack. In reality he is a luxury player as he does not offer enough in his overall game and therefore a waste of seat on the bench. Against Scotland we can get away with that, but if we are to move on an improve we need to have guys who bring much more overall

Again its my opinion Farrell will be making that call and unfortunately from my point of view I think he will have POM involved

I don't want to clog up the thread with another POM conversation, but I'd contested that he's playing "dogsh1T". He was far better during the RWC than during the 6 Nations last year, imo. He's been very good in a number of games for Munster this season too.

There was an interesting post on twitter of a defensive-offensive matrix of back-row players at the RWC, and POM was amongst the highest ranking back-rows. Now, obviously that comes down to how things were weighted, but it still suggests he has something to offer.

armchaircoach

salmocab wrote: »

Only to get his calendar turning stats up though.

He'll only ever turn it back on you though, you never see him really dominate and push the calendar forward a day!

Zzippy

Granny15 wrote: »

I'll be surprised if Connors makes the bench. He's been average this season and handing out caps like that degrades the jersey.

Please don't all kick off on me but in my humble opinion he's nowhere near deserving of a cap yet.

Mod: Judging by the number of posts taking the absolute p1ss following this post, and previous iterations of this, it's pretty clear that you either have an unhealthy obsession with Will Connors, or are posting just to get a reaction. Either way, drop it now.

Burkie1203

lawrencesummers wrote: »

That wouldn’t be prudent, that would be risky.

20 years ago
5 new caps.

It's not risky.

cson

We always seem to have a plethora of quality back rows no matter what, still have Conan & Leavy to come back as well as Paul Boyle looking like a serious prospect in Connacht.

redmca2

https://www.independent.ie/sport/rugby/international-rugby/eamonn-sweeney-andy-farrell-has-made-a-mess-of-his-first-big-decision-as-head-coach-and-it-could-be-very-costly-for-ireland-38897555.html

Eamonn Sweeney in the Indo has written a ridiculous article critisising the appointment of Sexton as captain, or more specifically the non-apppointment of Ryan. We all know JS won't be captain long term, but the purpose of the article and its timing seems to be to just heap pressure on Farrell, and to tee up more sh*t if Ireland under perform this weekend.

[Deleted User]

It can't be said enough times, Ireland are coming from a seriously poor 2019. The risk would be Farrell trying to stick with Schmidt's team, because they have massively underperformed over a long period of time.

I think the IT guess would be a really exciting team. Few questionable calls (Henshaw, POM) but would be a clear indication that Schmidt's undroppables will actually have to perform for their places.

Buer

redmca2 wrote: »

https://www.independent.ie/sport/rugby/international-rugby/eamonn-sweeney-andy-farrell-has-made-a-mess-of-his-first-big-decision-as-head-coach-and-it-could-be-very-costly-for-ireland-38897555.html

Eamonn Sweeney in the Indo has written a ridiculous article critisising the appointment of Sexton as captain, or more specifically the non-apppointment of Ryan. We all know JS won't be captain long term, but the purpose of the article and its timing seems to be to just heap pressure on Farrell, and to tee up more sh*t if Ireland under perform this weekend.

Nothing piece with very little of substance aside from an absolute love affair for James Ryan being named captain (which I'm not adverse to). The comparisons to other sports people are faintly a bit silly and misleading in several cases i.e. McCaw captained on a one off basis at 23; he wasn't made captain of NZ for a couple of years after that. David Clifford was made captain of Kerry as the Kerry captain traditionally comes from the county champions i.e. East Kerry in 2019. They don't win the final and Clifford isn't captain. Ryan is a superb player but he is not Sam Warburton (another example used) who is a once in a generation leader in the sport akin to Martin Johnson.

I don't care if Ryan is a guy whose leadership style is very much by example. Anyone who has watched him deal with the more publicity based elements around rugby can clearly see that he's not really comfortable with that aspect at this point. Let him develop a bit more and grow into himself as a person on and off the field. Sexton's appointment is clearly a placeholder for Ryan or AN Other anyway.

stephen_n

Can’t wait till we figure out who Farrells undropables are, so we can start giving out about him. How long does he have to be in charge before we can call them undropable? 6 months, 1 year of 18 months?

KBurke85

stephen_n wrote: »

Can’t wait till we figure out who Farrells undropables are, so we can start giving out about him. How long does he have to be in charge before we can call them undropable? 6 months, 1 year of 18 months?

He probably has untill 2pm thursday

[Deleted User]

stephen_n wrote: »

Can’t wait till we figure out who Farrells undropables are, so we can start giving out about him. How long does he have to be in charge before we can call them undropable? 6 months, 1 year of 18 months?

Well in 6 months we'll have a 6N campaign under our belts, if he picks the starting XV in every match but we win a slam then I don't think there'll be too many complaints.

What do you think, just pick the same team in every match from now until the end of time? Results be damned. Hopefully 2020 is every bit as successful as 2019.

Squidgy Black

stephen_n wrote: »

Can’t wait till we figure out who Farrells undropables are, so we can start giving out about him. How long does he have to be in charge before we can call them undropable? 6 months, 1 year of 18 months?

It depends. If a player makes a couple mistakes in one or two games and there's a highly rated player in a different province, then we'll find out fairly shortly who becomes the next target.

molloyjh

I actually overheard a conversation in work today where someone was claiming that Joe picked on loyalty and not form, which was why Kearney was selected. In the very next sentence they gave out about Toner being dropped despite the service he gave to the team. People are just strange.

ClanofLams

KBurke85 wrote: »

He probably has untill 2pm thursday

2pm tomorrow. Team being named early this week.

I see some posters are still sensitive about any criticism of the messiah, Schmidt clearly had undroppables. It worked very well for the majority of his reign and he’s Ireland’s greatest ever coach, he gets credit for that (and indeed got plenty), the flip side is criticism for a disastrous final year.

Eod100

At least with Farrell's first team selection, we can draw a line under Joe Schmidt's selections and debate Farrell's selections instead.. :P

Clegg

Thornley has taken a stab at the team for Scotland. Few differences to the one posted earlier.

Ireland v Scotland (possible): Addison; Larmour/Conway, Ringrose, Henshaw, Stockdale; Sexton (capt), Murray; Healy, Herring, Furlong, Henderson, Ryan, Stander, van der Flier, Doris. Replacements: Kilcoyne, Kelleher, Porter, Dillane, Deegan, Cooney, Conway/Larmour, Byrne.

prawnsambo

Eod100 wrote: »

At least with Farrell's first team selection, we can draw a line under Joe Schmidt's selections and debate Farrell's selections instead.. :P

Andy's undroppables?

lawrencesummers

aloooof wrote: »

I don't want to clog up the thread with another POM conversation, but I'd contested that he's playing "dogsh1T". He was far better during the RWC than during the 6 Nations last year, imo. He's been very good in a number of games for Munster this season too.

There was an interesting post on twitter of a defensive-offensive matrix of back-row players at the RWC, and POM was amongst the highest ranking back-rows. Now, obviously that comes down to how things were weighted, but it still suggests he has something to offer.

POM had the best turnover stats of any Irish player in last years 6 nations, and was one of the top for the entire competition. Don’t write him off yet.

The Rape of Lucretia

Shefwedfan wrote: »

I don’t understand the POM on bench either, I suppose dropping him out of the entire match day squad would be a huge deal

POM can only be dropped from the 23 with his agreement, and not just just a simple decision by the coaching team. He will leave on his own terms, at a time of his choosing, and with a banner of a height that he will specify. Farrel and co would have it in their contracts a prohibition them from dropping him without POM proposing it unless a sequence of very stringent criteria are met which go up to and including approval from the Council of State.

The Rape of Lucretia

Slightly surprised at the favouring of Doris over Deegan in both selections. Is that the wide consensus? I havent seen all the games, and Doris may indeed reach a higher ceiling in the longer term - but Deegan has looked the better player over the last few months to me.

thebaz

Clegg wrote: »

Thornley has taken a stab at the team for Scotland. Few differences to the one posted earlier.

Ireland v Scotland (possible): Addison; Larmour/Conway, Ringrose, Henshaw, Stockdale; Sexton (capt), Murray; Healy, Herring, Furlong, Henderson, Ryan, Stander, van der Flier, Doris. Replacements: Kilcoyne, Kelleher, Porter, Dillane, Deegan, Cooney, Conway/Larmour, Byrne.

Probably be the team , Cooney can rightly feal pissed to see Murray picked again - his form on the international stage has been dire all year , but seams undroppable. Bar Doris (Addison was injured ) it really is same as before our WC failure , so much for a fresh new start.

yerrahbah

The Rape of Lucretia wrote: »

POM can only be dropped from the 23 with his agreement, and not just just a simple decision by the coaching team. He will leave on his own terms, at a time of his choosing, and with a banner of a height that he will specify. Farrel and co would have it in their contracts a prohibition them from dropping him without POM proposing it unless a sequence of very stringent criteria are met which go up to and including approval from the Council of State.

And dont forget the unwritten rule between journalists not to criticise him.

Bridge93

thebaz wrote: »

Probably be the team , Cooney can rightly feal pissed to see Murray picked again - his form on the international stage has been dire all year , but seams undroppable. Bar Doris (Addison was injured ) it really is same as before our WC failure , so much for a fresh new start.

Of that XV 4 didn’t start against New Zealand. Another 5/6 on the bench weren’t involved that day. How many new names do you want thrown in. There has to be some balance

thebaz

Bridge93 wrote: »

Of that XV 4 didn’t start against New Zealand. Another 5/6 on the bench weren’t involved that day. How many new names do you want thrown in. There has to be some balance

Scotland seam in dissaray so would have been an ideal game to start Cooney, Kelleher . If POM is involved , I give up

[Deleted User]

Bridge93 wrote: »

Of that XV 4 didn’t start against New Zealand. Another 5/6 on the bench weren’t involved that day. How many new names do you want thrown in. There has to be some balance

Why is that? Because we might lose? Wouldn't that be terrible.

Bridge93

Interested Observer wrote: »

Why is that? Because we might lose?

Because most of that team are still the best players we have. We don’t have 15 blokes breaking doors down to get in we’ve probably half that. Like 9 of that team from the WC are still undeniably first choice at this point unless something changes in the next few weeks.

Surely a team where 2 of Larmour/Conway/Addison are finally first choice, Doris, Byrne, Kelleher, Dillane, Cooney, Deegan are getting runs is progress no? I’d start cooney myself but won’t get too disappointed if he doesn’t

After cooney I just don’t see where the other starting changes might be. Kelleher got injured at a brutal time.