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Ridiculous #GE2020 promises

Qrt

Thought I’d start a thread about the most ludicrous and ridiculous infrastructure promises coming out of this election.

To start, Deirdre O’Donovan and a luas Extension from Tallaght to Ballycullen... there’s not even a bus at the moment, maybe that should be a starting point? :eyeroll:

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tom1ie

magicbastarder wrote: »

https://twitter.com/josephamadigan/status/1220701515989561344

Absolutely beggars belief.
Ucd is a ten min cycle from booterstown dart station and a ten min cycle from windy arbour luas station.
On top of that it is adjacent to one of the best performing qbc’s in Ireland.
It’s not needed in that constituency, if your gonna build it anywhere build it in dublin sw ffs!

handlemaster

spacetweek wrote: »

Bridge from NI-Scotland. We should of course be building one between Ireland and wales

Not if the brit are paying for it.

handlemaster

The most obvious infrastruture to build is anything to get cheaper cleaner energy. With the four industrial revolution and the hugh demand on data centres we need to be competitive. Once you have cheap electricity the jobs would come... taxes go up and you can do what you want then..

magicbastarder

tom1ie wrote: »

Absolutely beggars belief.

amazing that it only appears to have become a good idea in the last week or two.

Zebra3

magicbastarder wrote: »

https://twitter.com/josephamadigan/status/1220701515989561344

Is there proposals to bring ML to UCD or to examine the possibility?

marno21

Lads, will ye relax.

FG have said they will examine the feasibility of extending Metro to UCD. Which would be done anyway under the NTA's GDA Transport Strategy. Just like they will be examining the Navan rail line and the SW Metro.

And saying they will examine the feasibility is meaningless. The only guaranteed outcome is more filing cabinets filled with endless reports.

Idbatterim

have the healy raes tried to get the metro extended from charelemont down to west kerry yet?

marno21

Idbatterim wrote: »

have the healy raes tried to get the metro extended down to west kerry yet?

No.

I'd much rather they focused on the N21 Abbeyfeale-Rathkeale, N22 Macroom-Ovens and N22 Killarney-Farranfore schemes.

These three schemes along with the M21 and N22 schemes currently on the go would make Kerry have decent access instead of the current routes that resemble routes you'd find in a third world banana republic.

tom1ie

So I was planning on voting Green Party no1 and possibly fg no 2 (as let’s face it one of fg or ff will get in and fg are supposed to be a bit more financially astute- nch aside), as I like their transport policies and general message of Improving city living etc, and then I read this:
https://politics.ie/threads/greens-call-for-end-of-tax-veto.273487/page-3

Wtf is this about!! How could a party supposedly acting on Ireland’s behalf, look to give away a veto on setting our own corporation tax rate.
If our 12.5% goes we’re knackered I imagine.

magicbastarder

marno21 wrote: »

Lads, will ye relax.

I think you may be taking the reactions too seriously; the thread title alone acknowledges that we know these are ludicrous promises.

LeinsterDub

tom1ie wrote: »

So I was planning on voting Green Party no1 and possibly fg no 2 (as let’s face it one of fg or ff will get in and fg are supposed to be a bit more financially astute- nch aside), as I like their transport policies and general message of Improving city living etc, and then I read this:
https://politics.ie/threads/greens-call-for-end-of-tax-veto.273487/page-3

Wtf is this about!! How could a party supposedly acting on Ireland’s behalf, look to give away a veto on setting our own corporation tax rate.
If our 12.5% goes we’re knackered I imagine.

Because if we act as a European whole we can finally properly tax these trillion dollar companies.

handlemaster

Idbatterim wrote: »

have the healy raes tried to get the metro extended from charelemont down to west kerry yet?

More likely a MMA club

prunudo

Hope they don't mind but I'm just qouting MrAbyss here from the Metrolink thread as don't want to drag it off topic.

"Ryan's crayons regarding the Green Line upgrade takes on a whole other angle of 'sabotage' rather than crayon-ism when you examine the Green 'watermelon' agenda for the hidden Marxism it is. Honestly, you would be better off voting FF or FG if you want the metro than the Greens.

(my apology mods - it is tragically hard to separate politics from engineering on this subject)"

This is my thinking too, whether you want roads or trains I think the 2 main parties are the only option for the needed investment in infrastructure. Whatever about roads I don't trust The Greens to deliever trainlines either.

In my own situation in east Wicklow they will definitely object to all of the n11 options and I wouldn't be confident they'd get behind double tracking the trainline either. Which leads me to wonder, what actually do the Green party want and if they did get into power where do they see the country in 20 years time. We have more and more housing being granted permission along the n11 corridor all the way to Wexford, people keep commuting back to Dublin but I can't see the GP encouraging local industry or employment either. We desperately need infrastructure improvements for all these new houses that are coming, even in the term of the next government.
So while I'm conscious of environmental issues, I'm also conscious of the reality of life and where we are and I just don't trust that the Green Party can see past their ideology. There's no point us screwing our little country for the good of the world while the likes of China and USA continue to stick 2 fingers to climate change.

Can we do more, of course but be careful what you vote for.

tom1ie

LeinsterDub wrote: »

Because if we act as a European whole we can finally properly tax these trillion dollar companies.

Yeah but who will govern the fair spread of this tax take? Germany and France?

BOHSBOHS

State wont be able to afford to pay state pensions and.we need to make everyone work till they are 100........
But in the meantime lets keep upping the pension by 5e a year ......

LeinsterDub

tom1ie wrote: »

Yeah but who will govern the fair spread of this tax take? Germany and France?

If we decide to apply a collective tax then the EU would. If we decided just tax them consistently then we would

tom1ie

LeinsterDub wrote: »

If we decide to apply a collective tax then the EU would. If we decided just tax them consistently then we would

Big risk to give away our veto no?
I’m completely confused as to who to vote now!:mad:

LeinsterDub

tom1ie wrote: »

Big risk to give away our veto no?
I’m completely confused as to who to vote now!:mad:

They aren't proposing unilaterally giving it away. They are saying let's talk

Dats me

tom1ie wrote: »

Big risk to give away our veto no?
I’m completely confused as to who to vote now!:mad:

I really don't think they're going to care enough about giving away our veto to put the work in over and above cycling, PT, proper climate action particularly when whoever is in government with them will 100% tell them to cop ón. I'm more worried about Eamon Ryan being party leader because he flip flops, but they really seem like the best option. Watch him talk about transport here, he's literally the only politician I've seen who gets the big picture in transport:

https://m.facebook.com/watch/?v=755039248226496&_rdr

major interest

Dats me wrote: »

I really don't think they're going to care enough about giving away our veto to put the work in over and above cycling, PT, proper climate action particularly when whoever is in government with them will 100% tell them to cop ón. I'm more worried about Eamon Ryan being party leader because he flip flops, but they really seem like the best option. Watch him talk about transport here, he's literally the only politician I've seen who gets the big picture in transport:

To be fair Ryan has a good understanding of how all the various transport issues are linked. He hits on a lot of those points in the vid e.g. we should be prioritising the improvement in PT options first and only then looking to add road capacity where necessary.

It does make his intervention in the metrolink and trying to scupper the southern section all the more frustrating. It kind of highlights another point he makes in the vid i.e. achieving the shift to PT is likely to be politically difficult. It's a pity he kind of proves his own point in his recent actions in his own constituency!

As mentioned before, I think a Green party in government will likely have a positive impact on PT and sustainable transport overall (even if some of the metro plans they have mooted are non runners in the near future). They will have to compromise obviously but they should be able to leverage some of their policies against those of any larger party in government.

Sam Russell

I think E Ryan suffers from the affliction where he pursues the ideal solution to a particular issue. This results in the perfect being the enemy of the good.

Take Metrolink. He thinks we have a working GL so it would be better to send the metro SW to solve areas that have no metro. Now the problem with that is the GL upgrade is less than 10% of the cost of his proposal so his SW metro wont happen, and neither will the GL upgrade. So he has killed a good solution by pursuing a 'better' solution.

Now he is saying the M20 should not go ahead 'because we need PT solutions and there are too many motorways'. Now the problem with that argument is that we may well have too many motorways but the one we really need is the M20 to join the 2nd and 3rd city. We have already built a motorway to join two tiny towns in the west, but have not built the one that is essential for safety reasons and to move HGVs out of some large towns. It would also improve PT between those two cities.

He is full of 'good' ideas but does not see the whole picture. He should look at what is actually possible, not what could be possible in a perfect world where money and political realities are unimportant.

By the way, China is building a hospital in 10 days.

Idbatterim

BOHSBOHS wrote: »

State wont be able to afford to pay state pensions and.we need to make everyone work till they are 100........
But in the meantime lets keep upping the pension by 5e a year ......

its comedy! they want inheritance tax reduced too. they lie about being on the bread line, so imagine the government gives you an extra fiver a week, to be offset by inheritance tax, when you are dead, wont be much use to you. You cant address the problems here, without facing up to the lies and liars...

Idbatterim

Sam Russell wrote: »

I think E Ryan suffers from the affliction where he pursues the ideal solution to a particular issue. This results in the perfect being the enemy of the good.

Take Metrolink. He thinks we have a working GL so it would be better to send the metro SW to solve areas that have no metro. Now the problem with that is the GL upgrade is less than 10% of the cost of his proposal so his SW metro wont happen, and neither will the GL upgrade. So he has killed a good solution by pursuing a 'better' solution.

Now he is saying the M20 should not go ahead 'because we need PT solutions and there are too many motorways'. Now the problem with that argument is that we may well have too many motorways but the one we really need is the M20 to join the 2nd and 3rd city. We have already built a motorway to join two tiny towns in the west, but have not built the one that is essential for safety reasons and to move HGVs out of some large towns. It would also improve PT between those two cities.

He is full of 'good' ideas but does not see the whole picture. He should look at what is actually possible, not what could be possible in a perfect world where money and political realities are unimportant.

By the way, China is building a hospital in 10 days.

brilliant post, the M20 needs to be buil;t. And the other mickey mouse motorway projects planned , put on hold, until the serious projects are done first, DM, DU and M20. the other projects are irrelevances in comparison!

Sam Russell

Idbatterim wrote: »

brilliant post, the M20 needs to be built. And the other mickey mouse motorway projects planned , put on hold, until the serious projects are done first, DM, DU and M20. the other projects are irrelevances in comparison!

You need to include Busconnects.

DU opens up rail transport within the city. Then Dart expansion with DU makes sense, and will improve PT matters massively. Then the Navan rail line makes sense. Then IR should start double tracking various parts of the network. [I'm thinking Athenry to Galway and parts of the Bray to Wexford line and parts of Limerick Junction to Limerick].

As for the GL south of Charlemont, get Dunville Ave and St Raphaela's Road sorted now. It is small money as standalone projects. The Merrion Gates project needs doing as well.

Chivito550

I don't have the time to read this thread. Which party/parties should I vote for to ensure Metrolink goes ahead?

prunudo

Chivito550 wrote: »

I don't have the time to read this thread. Which party/parties should I vote for to ensure Metrolink goes ahead?

This is my take on it.
If you want to talk for the next 20 years about Metros to every neighbourhood then the Green party is for you.
If you like the idea of Metros but aren't sure on the best routes and want to go back to the drawing board and never actually build one then FF are your party.
And if you want Metrolink and the possibility of a green line upgrade FG are the party to vote for.

AlmightyCushion

Chivito550 wrote: »

I don't have the time to read this thread. Which party/parties should I vote for to ensure Metrolink goes ahead?

It pretty much has to be Fine Gael. It's the project they created and developed. If any one else gets in as a majority party then there is a good chance they will redesign it, if only to put their stamp on it and make it their party's project. Once that happens we're back to square one and you can add on a few years to the completion date.

plodder

prunudo wrote: »

This is my take on it.
If you want to talk for the next 20 years about Metros to every neighbourhood then the Green party is for you.
If you like the idea of Metros but aren't sure on the best routes and want to go back to the drawing board and never actually build one then FF are your party.
And if you want Metrolink and the possibility of a green line upgrade FG are the party to vote for.

Spot on. You expect FF and FG to cynically bad mouth ideas that the other came out with, but the Greens were a shocking disappointment on this issue.

Idbatterim

have FF promised not to tank the economy again? that would be a ridiculous election promise from them!

Idbatterim

I asked a FF guy in Maynooth about metro, would it continue as is or back to drawing board.
Seemed shocked by question, then spouted crap they still have railway order of original metro North, didn't think the FG plan was good enough, started talking about DU then.

replying to this as its not allowed in metro thread! WTF! WTF! these people are out looking for votes, and actually do not have a clue! they are offensive morons! the current plans for DM need to go ahead and asap. to hell with anything else, even if some felt they were less than optimal. they want to start the entire, boring, predictable and unbearable saga again? until someone thinks those plans should be shelved. Pathetic!

the rail order for MN is expired and I believe DM is a better plan anyway. Regardless, pity MN didnt go ahead, even if DM was superior, because at least we would have something built, rather than talking about hypotheticals for decades !!! :mad: