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Saracens Salarygate: Automatic Relegation?

thomond2006

It's probably worth its own thread by now.

RugbyPass reporting that Saracens could be set for automatic relegation after failing to reduce their salaries in time.

https://amp.rugbypass.com/news/saracens-stand-on-brink-of-automatic-relegation-as-nightmare-season-set-to-continue/?__twitter_impression=true

Now this is Rugbypass who are quite clickbaity so let's see if more media run with this.

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prawnsambo

Deleted User wrote: »

Saracens have to drop 2 million from wage bill by the end of the month or they are gone.

Two milliion?!? That's massive. And gives the lie to all the protestations about being inside the cap and squeaky clean now. 30% or thereabouts over the cap.

Clegg

Squidgy Black wrote: »

Farrell and Itoje are their excluded players I believe, don't count towards the cap

Thanks. I didn't know that.

So a few England internationals and a lot of squad/first teamers on lower salaries. That will decimate their team regardless and probably get them relegated anyway.

prawnsambo

As I said earlier, they could back load their contracts. It's done in the NFL afaik. But it's a hell of a meaty chunk to ask players to forego until next season.

Neil3030

What rules exist around how long you have to wait, should you "retire" and then "change your mind"?

twinytwo

Deleted User wrote: »

Saracens have to drop 2 million from wage bill by the end of the month or they are gone.

No way they manage that unless something else shady gets pulled.

armchaircoach

Racing are visiting this weekend. Perhaps they can be convinced to leave with more players than they arrived with

Neil3030

armchaircoach wrote: »

Racing are visiting this weekend. Perhaps they can be convinced to leave with more players than they arrived with

Chairman already asked by Midi; not interested due to high wages and national duty.

https://www.rugbypass.com/news/french-clubs-want-action-taken-at-european-level-against-saracens/

thomond2006

durkadurka wrote: »

That is a lot of players. Like 10-15 squadmen or five -seven first teamers.

Eg someone said Liam Williams was on 230k.

230k seems like a pittance for a player of Williams' calibre.

Unless Wray was pumping money into Cheapshot Merchant Ltd...

durkadurka

thomond2006 wrote: »

230k seems like a pittance for a player of Williams' calibre.

Unless Wray was pumping money into Cheapshot Merchant Ltd...

Well its Sterling and I guess he was getting another chunk from Wales - 100k maybe?

so it adds up to maybe €400k all told?

I saw another article that said he's on 300k which does appear closer to where I would see him.

prawnsambo

Neil3030 wrote: »

Chairman already asked by Midi; not interested due to high wages and national duty.

https://www.rugbypass.com/news/french-clubs-want-action-taken-at-european-level-against-saracens/

Maybe they could all take to the field wearing bigger numbers on their shirts?

aloooof

Neil3030 wrote: »

What rules exist around how long you have to wait, should you "retire" and then "change your mind"?

Didn't something like this happen with Goosen? Can't quite remember how that played out.

testtech05

aloooof wrote: »

Didn't something like this happen with Goosen? Can't quite remember how that played out.

He is starting against Connacht on Sunday anyway.

Jeffrey Lebowski

thomond2006 wrote: »

230k seems like a pittance for a player of Williams' calibre.

Unless Wray was pumping money into Cheapshot Merchant Ltd...

I got talking to a couple of scarlets guys after the Pro 14 Munster - Scarlets league final in Dublin. If you think 230K was a pittance, they told me what they thought he was on at Scarlets (around 40K). There is no money in rugby in Wales.

thomond2006

Jeffrey Lebowski wrote: »

I got talking to a couple of scarlets guys after the Pro 14 Munster - Scarlets league final in Dublin. If you think 230K was a pittance, they told me what they thought he was on at Scarlets (around 40K). There is no money in rugby in Wales.

40k?

That can't be true.

Neil3030

Just to troll Thomond:

McCall to Munster?

prawnsambo

thomond2006 wrote: »

40k?

That can't be true.

Yeah. Not a chance in hell. Luke FitzGerald was on a salary of 56k when he joined Leinster back in 2006.

thomond2006

Neil3030 wrote: »

Just to troll Thomond:

McCall to Munster?

Eh you're not trolling me with that suggestion.

The IRFU should be on the phone to get him back to some role in Ireland.

awec

Jeffrey Lebowski wrote: »

I got talking to a couple of scarlets guys after the Pro 14 Munster - Scarlets league final in Dublin. If you think 230K was a pittance, they told me what they thought he was on at Scarlets (around 40K). There is no money in rugby in Wales.

A month, aye?

Jeffrey Lebowski

awec wrote: »

A month, aye?

I was shocked when they told me, but they were insistant on it. There is a reason, they all leave Wales.

Sangre

prawnsambo wrote: »

As I said earlier, they could back load their contracts. It's done in the NFL afaik. But it's a hell of a meaty chunk to ask players to forego until next season.

Open to correction but I think the PRL take the average salary of a player over the relevant contract period to avoid this scenario.

durkadurka

thomond2006 wrote: »

230k seems like a pittance for a player of Williams' calibre.

Unless Wray was pumping money into Cheapshot Merchant Ltd...

something of a source here:
http://www.dai-sport.com/liam-williams-230000-reasons-hell-scarlet-sooner-rather-later/

prawnsambo

Sangre wrote: »

Open to correction but I think the PRL take the average salary of a player over the relevant contract period to avoid this scenario.

They could still do it by back loading to a new contract after the current one expires. In other words, pay cut now, but a pay rise if you sign a new contract.

Either way, there's no other way out except pay cuts. Offloading players mid-season is very rare and very hard to do.

Podge_irl

Jeffrey Lebowski wrote: »

I was shocked when they told me, but they were insistant on it. There is a reason, they all leave Wales.

They would be leaving Wales if they were on 4 times that salary given what is available in France/England. I don't know where they got their info but I don't believe them for a second. The Welsh teams have a defined salary cap which can give you an idea of salary levels and there is no way that fits in.

[Deleted User]

Saracens players have been told the club will accept a further 35-point deduction that will effectively spell relegation from the Premiership.

From the Telegraph. Paywall on article, so I can't expand on it.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/rugbyunion/article-7898369/Saracens-hold-crisis-talks-entire-squad-tell-stars-relegated.html

I apologise for the link above

jr86

Deleted User wrote: »

From the Telegraph. Paywall on article, so I can't expand on it.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/rugbyunion/article-7898369/Saracens-hold-crisis-talks-entire-squad-tell-stars-relegated.html

I apologise for the link above

They probably would have still stayed up if it was the season with London Welsh in it :pac:

durkadurka

Deleted User wrote: »

From the Telegraph. Paywall on article, so I can't expand on it.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/rugbyunion/article-7898369/Saracens-hold-crisis-talks-entire-squad-tell-stars-relegated.html

I apologise for the link above

that newspaper is an absolute rag but they've been good on this story, to be fair to them.

thegreycity

Podge_irl wrote: »

They would be leaving Wales if they were on 4 times that salary given what is available in France/England. I don't know where they got their info but I don't believe them for a second. The Welsh teams have a defined salary cap which can give you an idea of salary levels and there is no way that fits in.

Nah man, Alun Wyn Jones only on 50k apparently. Heard he's been considering an offer to drive the London-Cardiff Mega Bus instead. Would be a decent pay increase but obviously there'd be a higher chance of injury to think about.

jr86

thegreycity wrote: »

Nah man, Alun Wyn Jones only on 50k apparently. Heard he's been considering an offer to drive the London-Cardiff Mega Bus instead. Would be a decent pay increase but obviously there'd be a higher chance of injury to think about.

Obviously the top internationals won't exactly be on the breadline but I'd well believe some of the Regions' squad players (even younger starting players not at international level) would be on an absolute pittance in Wales, earlier in their careers

Widdensushi

durkadurka wrote: »

something of a source here:
http://www.dai-sport.com/liam-williams-230000-reasons-hell-scarlet-sooner-rather-later/

probably gets a performance bonus 230k if isn't playing

[Deleted User]

durkadurka wrote: »

that newspaper is an absolute rag but they've been good on this story, to be fair to them.

Yeah I did apologise

, they pretty much are saying what everyone else is reporting online and in the media.

Good riddance to Saracens, anyone with a small portion of a brain could tell they had to be over the cap and clearly being unwilling to open their accounts it means that £2 million is on the low side. I would have sympathy for their supporters but I've seen zero contrition from any of theirs online for the last two months. They've all been pompous and in denial about it. Now it appears they seem to be accepting that their club has lied, lied and lied some more.