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Ireland Team Talk XI: Team of nervoUS MOD warning Post 1

[Deleted User]

Continued from here
https://touch.boards.ie/thread/2057953711/251
All Ireland Senior XV related talk here.

MOD: Bear in mind this thread is starting during the World Cup window and the zero tolerance policy is in force. Trolling will be rewarded with an instant ban. For the duration of the tournament any mention of Zebo in this thread will not be permitted, it is just dragging current Ireland squad talk off topic.

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kilns

bennyl10 wrote: »

We see this with the backrow for every major tournament

we saw the BS that Conan should be over CJ at the WC, and thankfully Cj showed exactly why he was there.

We see this now about Ruddock, PoM is a test level 7, a decent replacement 6, and is in the leadership group of the squad.

We've now had 2 coaches make this decision based on what they're seeing in camp, they aren't both blind

are we talking about the slow, cant tackle, cant carry POM as a test level 7?

A-Train

If we have a starting back row of POM, VDF and CJ for the Scots match then Farrell has learned nothing and we will be going nowhere.

kilns

bennyl10 wrote: »

CJ was one of our best players at the World Cup.
By a distance.

He showed why he’s above Conan. Injury or not.

CJ unfortunately typifys why Ireland ended up the way they did. The game has moved on from the way he plays as a carrier. i.e. look for the man rather than the space. It can work against weaker teams like Scotland but you need more against teams that match you physically that is way the likes of Deegan and Doris look like they can offer much more than Stander and Conan when he is back

Clegg

A-Train wrote: »

If we have a starting back row of POM, VDF and CJ for the Scots match then Farrell has learned nothing and we will be going nowhere.

Tbf that backrow played a big part in dismantling the Scots at the World Cup. It's the bigger, better packs where some of them struggled.

aloooof

kilns wrote: »

I would say yes it is, an inferior player with a higher reputation over a player who brings more to the team and is playing much better

...in your opinion.

I can understand having a difference of opinion in squad selection. But it's hubris to suggest you know better than Andy Farrell to the point that his selection is "a disgrace".

kilns

Clegg wrote: »

Tbf that backrow played a big part in dismantling the Scots at the World Cup. It's the bigger, better packs where some of them struggled.

exactly doing it against the number 9 team in the world and the top 5 is whole different ball game.

Ireland will take 2 steps back if they start with that back row

Tomtom364

I must say I am absolutely delighted for Jack O'Donoghue, going from not in the 45 man stock take in December to in the 35 man 6 nations squad is a fantastic recognition of his performances for Munster over a very difficult time for them.

He has been Munster's stand out player this season bar none. I hope he can keep this up and push on, needs to get a bit more of a carry to his game.

A-Train

Clegg wrote: »

Tbf that backrow played a big part in dismantling the Scots at the World Cup. It's the bigger, better packs where some of them struggled.

Which is what I’m talking about. We need to evolve and move on.

[Deleted User]

There must be some technical deficiency to Ruddocks play that the masses generally don't see as he seems pretty complete in his performances on the pitch.

A few players have used up the last of their credit to stay within the setup I think. Good mix within the squad of experience and youth. Jack McGrath back in the mix and Moore with a deserved call up.

Feel for McCloskey and I'm a bit surprised he is left out but I think the ship has now sailed on his international career - much like Ruddock.

Sexton being captain makes sense in my opinion. For those who think he is too angry for the job...

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kilns

aloooof wrote: »

...in your opinion.

I can understand having a difference of opinion in squad selection. But it's hubris to suggest you know better than Andy Farrell to the point that his selection is "a disgrace".

Do you think based on current form (the last 12 months) that POM has been superior to Ruddock. Id like to hear your arguments.

Yes some coaches can be blind to certain things that is obvious, like Schmidts reliance on Murray when he was obviously not performing

Squidgy Black

Deleted User wrote: »

There must be some technical deficiency to Ruddocks play that the masses generally don't see as he seems pretty complete in his performances on the pitch.

A few players have used up the last of their credit to stay within the setup I think. Good mix within the squad of experience and youth. Jack McGrath back in the mix and Moore with a deserved call up.

Feel for McCloskey and I'm a bit surprised he is left out but I think the ship has now sailed on his international career - much like Ruddock.

Sexton being captain makes sense in my opinion. For those who think he is too angry for the job...

Do you mean O'Toole? Moore didn't make the squad.

Pepp1989

kilns wrote:

Can you offer a reason?

Are you related to Ruddock or something? You seem extremely upset.

aloooof

kilns wrote: »

Do you think based on current form (the last 12 months) that POM has been superior to Ruddock. Id like to hear your arguments.

No, I don't. I've previously said I'd have had a starting backrow of Ruddock, VdF and Stander.

kilns wrote: »

Yes some coaches can be blind to certain things that is obvious, like Schmidts reliance on Murray when he was obviously not performing

I don't disagree. But that doesn't make POM's inclusion or Ruddock's omission in the squad "a disgrace".

Richie_Rich89

Hopefully they'll select the backrowers in the positions that suit them.

6s: POM, Deegan
7s: JvdF, JOD
8s: Stander, Doris

Wouldn't be so good (only really JvdF and Doris in their best positions, for me)

6s: Stander, JOD
7s: JvdF, POM
8s: Deegan, Doris

would be a lot better, in my opinion.

Downlinz

Clegg wrote: »

Tbf that backrow played a big part in dismantling the Scots at the World Cup. It's the bigger, better packs where some of them struggled.

I agree it's a great mobile backrow for Scotland but against the bigger packs I really hope we've learned that VDF and POM is an either or situation, they're too light to have both.

Former Former

Not surprised by Ruddock. He's been on the fringes for too long without making a breakthrough.

Think Marty Moore might consider himself unlucky.

Otherwise no great shocks. Bringing the development players is a good idea.

yerrahbah

kilns wrote: »

Id like to hear it, this is not 4 years ago this is 2020.

Can you offer a reason?

I don't know what Farrell is looking for from his backrow

I don't watch the players train or analyse matches afterwards.

I know that Peter O'Mahony has consistently been selected ahead of Ruddock for a while now.

There are also 5 other backrows selected ahead of Ruddock in this squad.

You say Ruddock is a better player that O'Mahony,
I say O'Mahony could be better than Ruddock at the things Farrell wants from his 6.

Dubinusa

I'd like to see JOD VDF and Deegan. Stander is good, but that's it! Not a top level 8. Deegan has the potential to completely change our style of play. He's faster, bigger and has improved each season. Stander has not improved at all, and besides a change up in the back row could be what's needed.
I'm glad Kleyn is out. He showed nothing in his previous caps. I think Dillane is a vastly better option. Again, with Toners age profile, it's certainly a chance for others to get into the wider squad and make an impression.

steam iron

I can't believe Niall Scannel is out and that Jack McGrath is back in.
Must be the 'unseen work' cos i certainly ain't seeing it.

Trying to remember if Herring got much game time in RWC.....
Not much experience at hooker there.

Kevski

steam iron wrote: »

I can't believe Niall Scannel is out and that Jack McGrath is back in.
Must be the 'unseen work' cos i certainly ain't seeing it.

Trying to remember if Herring got much game time in RWC.....
Not much experience at hooker there.

Who would you pick as third LH if not McGrath?

Herring got injured during that Italy warm up game and didn’t go to Japan until Cronin went home injured.

PhlegmyMoses

Ruddock has been done up like a kipper tbh. POM at his best is world class but that day is gone. It seems so simple to me that you basically pick as many Leinster players as you can right now if there is decisions to be made. They are in form and probably at the best coaches team in Europe currently.

Larbre34

Former Former wrote: »

Not surprised by Ruddock. He's been on the fringes for too long without making a breakthrough.

Yeah its odd, he's a better backrow than any of the players at the other three provinces.

Locke_Lamora

Wow. Lots of talking points here.

Front row:
O'Toole over Moore is a little strange, especially as O'Toole could have been included as a development player. Moore has been on great form this year, but struggles a little with injuries and fitness. O'Toole's main weakness is his scrummaging, which has improved immensely from last year, but it will still be targeted at international level. Maybe this decision was made with a four year timeline in mind? Delighted to see Farrell go all-in on Kelleher. Excellent start to the season and a really dynamic player, but I was afraid injuries would prevent him from breaking through this year. He could have been brought as a development player, but I think this is the right call as I just don't trust our other hookers to be at the right standard in four years time. Mind you our set piece is going to be weak for a while.

2nd row:
Nothing too controversial. Will be interesting to see how the squad changes when Kleyn and Bierne are back.

Backrow:
The Deegan vs Doris debate has been discussed to death for a while now, and both have a huge opportunity to stake a claim with Conan out. Despite Deegan's heroics over the last two weeks, Doris has been more impressive for me. His performance against Northampton is head and shoulders above anything Deegan has strung together this season, and I reckon his style of play is something Ireland need a little more of. Both of them being included and Ruddock being dropped might suggest that Stander could see game time at 6, which is where I think he is better off tbh. Disappointed for Ruddock though, ferocious player. O'Donoghue has been better than expected this year, whereas I was ready to write him off. I know others are huge fans, but I don't really see him as international standard. Conan and Leavy to strengthen the squad if they can make full recoveries down the line.

Scrumhalf:
Delighted for Cooney, but he has to improve his box kicks. Don't think the Connacht 9's can feel hard done by. Think this will be an area of weakness over the next four years.

Flyhalf:
Happy for Billy Burns, but not sure he's up to the required standard. Byrne has improved again this year and got a bit of a raw deal against England, but still not convinced by him either yet. With Sexton likely not making the next world cup, we could be in trouble here.

Centres:
Gutted for McCloskey, he's one of my favourite players but he only has himself to blame. Made some absolutely brainless errors in the last few weeks. Hoping a change in play style with breathe new life into how our centres play. Ringrose especially is capable of more than what he's shown for Ireland previously imo. Going wide is rare and taking a defender on the outside is even rarer.

Back three:
Well done Dave Kearney. I think I wrote on here at the start of the season that I wouldn't have him near the squad, but he's genuinely in the form of his life. Stockdale and Earls need to improve. Conway, Addison and Larmour gives us good options at fullback. Still think Larmour is better suited to wing, but the guy's a baller - just get him on the field I suppose.

Development players:
Baird is tough and explosive, and exactly what we need. Think he could have a great future at 6 as well. Leapfrogged some quality Leinster talent already which speaks volumes about his potential. I rate Connors higher than O'Donoghue tbh, and I think with a little more game time he could have taken his place. Looks like another VDF in the making. Flyhalf is always difficult to predict, but Harry Byrne could be our starting flyhalf in the next world cup imo. Just think he has all the qualities you look for and I'm glad his lack of minutes isn't keeping him out. Early exposure is crucial as developing a flyhalf is difficult to do. Absolutely delighted for Baloucoune. Been injured most of this year so I thought he missed his chance. Had a meteoric rise last year and has improved more than I expected this year in limited minutes. A winger in the green jersey that can defend will bring a tear to me my eye. Trimble we miss you.

EachSmallChime

steam iron wrote: »

I can't believe Niall Scannel is out and that Jack McGrath is back in.
Must be the 'unseen work' cos i certainly ain't seeing it.

Trying to remember if Herring got much game time in RWC.....
Not much experience at hooker there.

Niall Scannell being dropped is not surprising at all. He was great down in Australia in 2018 but has underwhelmed in the numerous opportunities he's had since. As Steve Hansen said, experience is only valuable if it's positive, winning experience.

Also, Does Harry Byrne being included as a development player move him ahead of Jack Carty in the 10 pecking order?

Sinbad_NI

Very strange call to omit McCloskey.

Another one who's face doesn't, and will never, fit by the looks of it.

Clegg

Does anyone want to hazard a guess for the 23 against Scotland? Due to the novice hookers in the squad I'd throw Toner in to start against the Scots and Henderson to the bench for impact. Provided Ryan is fit to start anyway. In Porter, Henderson and Deegan you have a lot of impact.

No POM. It's probably wishful thinking at this stage but I'm kind of hoping him not getting the captaincy is a sign of a diminishing role in the side.

Healy
Kelleher
Furlong
Toner
Ryan
Stander
VDF
Doris
Cooney
Sexton
Stockdale
Aki
Ringrose
Conway
Larmour

Herring
McGrath
Porter
Henderson
Deegan
Murray
Byrne
Addison

ClanofLams

I’m fine with Sexton being captain but I hope it doesn’t mean Farrell contributes the Schmidt habit of refusing to substitute him when clearly unfit playing poorly.

vienne86

I'm gutted for Ruddock - he has been immense and really surprised that Niall Scannell is out too, but what a rise to fame for Kelleher - deserved thougth. Slightly surprised to see Jack back in the front row, but delighted for the other Jack in the back row, and delighted too for Toner.

Sexton as captain doesn't surprise me, and to be fair, I think he has been decent when captain of late.

OldRio

Delighted for O'Toole. Definitely one for the future.
Not much controversy IMHO. Ruddock perhaps?

Nice blend of old and new. Interesting times ahead.

PhlegmyMoses

Said it here the other day but Farrell and the provinces are going to have to work on getting some fresh blood on the wings too. Conway and Kearney are smashing players but they will be right up there age wise next World Cup. Earls won't make it either and there are arguments that his wheels are already going right now.