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Cork developments

snotboogie

I noticed that the Limerick equivalent is a very popular thread over on their forum so I thought I might get one going here. To kick things off I'll list the bigger current projects I can think of:

Under Construction

Navigation Square: Four building office development on the former Navigation House site on Albert Quay. 310,000 sq ft of office space for up to 3000 employees. First phase to be completed Feb 19'

89-90 South Mall: 50,000 sq ft office, 5 storey office building.To be completed in December 18'

Dalata Hotel South Mall: Six storey hotel, 165 beds. To be completed in December 18'

Various Student Accommodation: Western Road and Beamish site are under construction, Crows Nest has planning and should start soon, Square Deal is facing appeals, Coca-Cola site on the Carrigrohane Road has had planning for over a year but nothing has happened? O’Riordans Joinery, Gillen House on Farranlea Road, Model Farm Road/Melbourne Road and Copely Street are all at various stages of planning and/or limbo.

Planning/Appealed

Horgan's Quay: Office Space for 5,000 employees, 200 apartments, 136 bed hotel and 3000 sq metres of restaurants and retail. Got planning permission in March but it was appealed by Port of Cork. Uncertain when the final decision will be. Construction on the Hotel will hopefully begin in Q4 this year with the office and apartments commencing in 2019.

Sullivan's Quay: 6 storey Office & 193 bed 4 star Hotel. Planning granted and immediately appealed. Given that demolition is nearly complete I'd expect this to go into construction as soon as planning is granted. Potential hold up over the height of the hotel, at 12 storeys and 47 metres, it is set to make the top 20 tallest buildings in the state if completed. An Taisce not happy.

Former Victoria Hotel: Knocking much of the Victoria and rebuilding to the back and refurbishing the original historic front/facade and to integrate the two sections into a new high order retail unit, of 25,000 sq ft, over four floors. Rumoured to be taken over by Zara. Planning granted in Feb, nothing happened on site since.

Metropole Redevelopment: €50m redevelopment of the Metropole Hotel to include a new five-storey boutique hotel on Patrick's Quay. Planning granted with amendments in March. No date for work to start.

Wilton Shopping Centre: €100 million revamp proposed. Mistake made in planning permission. In the process of resubmitting.

In Limbo

Event Centre: 6000 all seater multi purpose event centre with a tourist brewery experience. Arguably the most controversial construction project in the history of the city. After a bleak 6 months at the back end of 2017 there have been two instances of positive murmurs from the Government and BAM in January 2018 and April 2018. Construction allegedly to start in Q4 2018 but there are still conflicting and contradictory statements from all parties involved. Most would be shocked to see this start in 2018.

Anderson Quay/Camden Quay/Trinity Quarter: All have had planning for years with no work on site. Camden Quay allegedly had some work going on last week but I'd be shocked if it was related to the actual construction. I can't see any of these sites being developed as per their current proposals.

Concept/Pre Planning

Docklands Tower: 40 storey mixed use tower with the redevelopment of the existing customs house warehouses into cultural, tourist and retail space. By a mile the most ambitious development in Ireland. Announced over one year ago and no sign of a planning permission application yet, allegedly waiting for the Docklands development plan this summer to rezone heights for the site. If we don't see a planning application by the end of the year I'd be worried.

Ford Distribution Depot: Put on sale last week. Former site of the extremely ambitious Atlantic Quarter. Major development opportunity

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Mefistofelino

Markcheese wrote: »

I don't see how they can cock it up , it's a contractor,they've started ,the money's already allocated by central government ... Once the scrub and undergrowth is cleared ,and the rails ( which have a value ) are lifted ,the original ballast is still there , so either gravel blinding or tarmac on top ...
Famous last words I know .....

Much of the route is heavily overgrown and removing the tree & shrub roots is likely to significantly disturb the ballast. And I'd suspect most of the rails have gone - either legally or otherwise - precisely because they had a value.

There's also the small matter of Eirgrid wanting to run the new HVDC interconnector cable along the route of the greenway, which will require the installation of some serious ductwork.

namloc1980

If I recall correctly about half the length of track between Midleton and Youghal was lifted in the 1990s for use on a track renewal job up in Sligo.

Markcheese

Eirgrid doing work on the route is at their cost I assume ( I hadn't realised that was happening). In a way it's a separate project ..( just hope they're coordinating)
, clearing the scrub and trees over the length of the line is a big job ,but with the right equipment could be done seriously quickly and efficiently ,( saw a woodchipper on the mallow road 2plus1 improvements that was based on a sileage harvester , literally chewed up whole trees ...
Probably need herbicide to keep the regrowth at Bay so you won't need to dig up the ballast ,
But none of that is rocket science or unexpected .. it's been done on similar projects elsewhere ...
You'd hope it's been tendered for correctly ...

AugustusMinimus

There isn’t a hope this will ever revert from being a Greenway to Rail use ever again. Whatever the decision is now is pretty much final.

namloc1980

AugustusMinimus wrote: »

There isn’t a hope this will ever revert from being a Greenway to Rail use ever again. Whatever the decision is now is pretty much final.

Better off making a use of it. If it was being kept for rail then it would just sit there disused forever. Greenways are great facilities - see Waterford Greenway for example.

Chris_5339762

There are no plans, but would a reopening of the railway as far as Bandon ever be feasible? CPO a few houses and the alignment is mostly there. Send it under the Kinsale Road roundabout and take half of the South Link for the railway line and you're at the old location for the station just opposite the Elysian.

Would this be a more sensible option than a long term plan to upgrade the N71?

namloc1980

Chris_5339762 wrote: »

There are no plans, but would a reopening of the railway as far as Bandon ever be feasible? CPO a few houses and the alignment is mostly there. Send it under the Kinsale Road roundabout and take half of the South Link for the railway line and you're at the old location for the station just opposite the Elysian.

Would this be a more sensible option than a long term plan to upgrade the N71?

Much of the alignment has been lost to agriculture / farmers ploughing it up and incorporating into their fields. And as nothing was done to challenge this over the last 60 years they now effectively own it. In any case the old alignment was poor, very twisty and not suitable for modern transport. Building a new alignment would be prohibitively expensive and is essentially a non-runner. Closing half the South link is also not feasible.

Markcheese

Chris_5339762 wrote: »

There are no plans, but would a reopening of the railway as far as Bandon ever be feasible? CPO a few houses and the alignment is mostly there. Send it under the Kinsale Road roundabout and take half of the South Link for the railway line and you're at the old location for the station just opposite the Elysian.

Would this be a more sensible option than a long term plan to upgrade the N71?

Honestly it'd be bonkers ... I'm for public transport , ahead of massive new road builds , but to shut the main road to bandon and shut half of the south link for a bandon ,inishannon and halfway ( and maybe a bit of bishopstown ) rail line , never mind the expense ,
You'd cause riots ....

marno21

Comments on the Custom House Tower from reddit thread on the new North Main Street development:

The odds, quite high actually! Planning is looking v good with some reasonable RFI's (Request for Further Information) in at the moment. I reckon all of these will be satisfied and planning granted within this year. The Sullivans are ready to go with the conntruction and they move fast, if their NYC projects are anything to go by!

One thing that may hold the whole thing up is a geoligical survey. The "point" of the centre island of the city is essentially mud on top of mud. The last survey went 50m down and didn't find rock, thats why the tower moved from the point back to Custom House Street, with the hope that the rock will be shallower.

One thing is for sure, these brothers mean business. They have tonnes of cash and are not afraid to fight! Nice guys but they get their way in the end. You might have seen from another post on here today that the Prism building will start construction this quarter - this is another one of their projects.

Fantastic if true.

BeansBeans

Have you got a link to that thread handy? Please

marno21

BeansBeans wrote: »

Have you got a link to that thread handy? Please

Indeed I do

https://www.reddit.com/r/cork/comments/ekly26/the_proposed_student_accomodation_on_north_main/

snotboogie

He's saying Railway Gardens will be built too, hmmm....

hans aus dtschl

AugustusMinimus wrote: »

There isn’t a hope this will ever revert from being a Greenway to Rail use ever again. Whatever the decision is now is pretty much final.

I don't necessarily agree with you.

For instance I could see potential rail expansion to Mogeely if there was a county UEA, with a big P&R.
Take for example if an M25 gets funded, I'd prefer to see such an East Cork P&R. I don't think you can get a P&R into the Midleton station at this point, given the scale of housing and warehousing on the East of the town, and Midleton traffic is quite poor at peak times. So the only way to suck cars off the N25/M25 from what I can see would be Mogeely or thereabouts. Such a job could even push out the urgency of an M25 maybe?

I think you can see where I'm going with this. Maybe I'm dreaming here, but it's roughly the same distance as the previous early-2000's line reopening (Glounthaune to Midleton). What would an M25 upgrade cost? It'd surely deserve consideration?

Tomtom364

marno21 wrote: »

Comments on the Custom House Tower from reddit thread on the new North Main Street development:

The Sullivans are ready to go with the conntruction and they move fast, if their NYC projects are anything to go by!

Fantastic if true.

Considering full planning was granted in May, they were talking about having the prism tender process completed last October and as of yet a contractor hasn't been appointed, I wouldn't exactly say they are moving all too fast.

However they do seem to be moving, which is a lot more that a rake of other projects around the city so have to give them credit for following through.

snotboogie

Tomtom364 wrote: »

Considering full planning was granted in May, they were talking about having the prism tender process completed last October and as of yet a contractor hasn't been appointed, I wouldn't exactly say they are moving all too fast.

However they do seem to be moving, which is a lot more that a rake of other projects around the city so have to give them credit for following through.

How long do you think it will be from a contractor being appointed to construction starting? I remember for the Crows Nest that it took nearly 12 months

kub

snotboogie wrote: »

How long do you think it will be from a contractor being appointed to construction starting? I remember for the Crows Nest that it took nearly 12 months

I wonder have we a time and money business decision here with the Sullivan brothers as opposed to UCC building an apartment block for their own students?

Tomtom364

snotboogie wrote: »

How long do you think it will be from a contractor being appointed to construction starting? I remember for the Crows Nest that it took nearly 12 months

If all parties are 100% good to go then its a month a least, id expect all things being ready, 1-3 months.

But there could be some things that need working out after appointment that delay it, site investigation surveys throw up obstacles or any issues with the ESB Substation on the site for example.

Pete_Cavan

Tomtom364 wrote: »

If all parties are 100% good to go then its a month a least, id expect all things being ready, 1-3 months.

But there could be some things that need working out after appointment that delay it, site investigation surveys throw up obstacles or any issues with the ESB Substation on the site for example.

Those things absolutely do not get agreed after appointing a contractor, that would be a blank cheque for the contractor. Site investigations have been done to allow for the design of foundations, there could be changes due to unforeseen conditions once excavation has started but the tender would have been based on a set design. If an ESB substation is required, or existing one extended, it would need planning permission so has already been considered. If there are any questions on these things, it would be very stupid for the client to enter into a contract without first agreeing how these things are dealt with.

Tomtom364

Pete_Cavan wrote: »

Those things absolutely do not get agreed after appointing a contractor, that would be a blank cheque for the contractor. Site investigations have been done to allow for the design of foundations, there could be changes due to unforeseen conditions once excavation has started but the tender would have been based on a set design. If an ESB substation is required, or existing one extended, it would need planning permission so has already been considered. If there are any questions on these things, it would be very stupid for the client to enter into a contract without first agreeing how these things are dealt with.

The ESB substation located on the site has to be replaced and relocated. It is currently on Ground level and therefore to construct a two level basement this provides complications. This station also provides capacity for a large chunk of the city therefore being offline long term isn't really an option.
This has all been considered in the tender, however works commencing is reliant on the ESB being in a position to move forward with their side of the plans to address this.

I was specifically replying to a query as to how long between appointment and start on site.
I should have clarified that I was responding with a timescale for the the preferred tender being selected and letter of intent submitted, not contracts signed.

kub

Tomtom364 wrote: »

The ESB substation located on the site has to be replaced and relocated. It is currently on Ground level and therefore to construct a two level basement this provides complications. This station also provides capacity for a large chunk of the city therefore being offline long term isn't really an option.
This has all been considered in the tender, however works commencing is reliant on the ESB being in a position to move forward with their side of the plans to address this.

I was specifically replying to a query as to how long between appointment and start on site.
I should have clarified that I was responding with a timescale for the the preferred tender being selected and letter of intent submitted, not contracts signed.

I imagine the ESB have the necessary expertise and experience to have everything done on the preparation side of things, have the cables ready and a sub station set up elsewhere before they disconnect the power in order to set up the sub station elsewhere.
The down time will be minimal.

Water John

Might be of interest here. A car park in Norway burned two days ago, Opel Zafira may be the culprit.
https://www.thelocal.no/20200108/norway-airport-flights-held-as-hundreds-of-cars-burn-in-fire

TheChizler

There's a public meeting in City Hall next Tuesday about the sustainable mobility policy, could be interesting to people who read this thread.

https://www.eventbrite.ie/e/have-your-say-review-of-the-sustainable-mobility-policy-tickets-88635407891

leahyl

TheChizler wrote: »

There's a public meeting in City Hall next Tuesday about the sustainable mobility policy, could be interesting to people who read this thread.

https://www.eventbrite.ie/e/have-your-say-review-of-the-sustainable-mobility-policy-tickets-88635407891

Was just about to share, got an email about it in work

opus

The apartments being built on Millard Street have almost topped out.

Also noticed this development site for sale on the Coal Quay.

AwaitYourReply

Hotel and golf resort staff in limbo as resort owner fails to attend meeting in Cork

Hotel workers who fear their jobs are at risk have been left in limbo after the complex owner failed to attend a meeting this morning to discuss the future of the business.

The Armagh-based developer, who bought the Blarney Golf Resort north of Cork City just over two years ago, pulled out of this morning’s scheduled meeting with the staff just days after he ordered the immediate and indefinite closure of the resort’s leisure and gym complex.

While the hotel was always due to close for January, staff were until last weekend operating under the assumption that it would reopen for business in February.

But the sudden closure of the leisure centre and pool have raised fears for the future of the resort and the 80 jobs there. The golf course is operating as normal.

However, rumours are swirling locally that the complex is being considered as a direct provision centre.

The hotel staff were told last weekend to attend a briefing at the hotel this morning where they hoped the owner would explain what was happening.

Source courtesy:
https://www.irishexaminer.com/breakingnews/ireland/hotel-and-golf-resort-staff-in-limbo-as-resort-owner-fails-to-attend-meeting-in-cork-974689.html

who_me

Some good news (if it hasn't already been posted: )

Over €9.2m has been allocated to Athletics Ireland / CIT, presumably for the indoor sports arena they were planning.

€2m allocated for the Cork City training facility in Glanmire, though it seems to be on hold pending the FAI getting its act together.

€1.5m for the indoor training facility at Irish Independent (/ Musgrave) Park.

opus

First time I came across a pic of what the finished student apartments on the Mardyke are going to look like.

WhoElse

AugustusMinimus wrote: »

We do joined up thinking as good as anywhere else. The problem is that nothing gets implemented for a myriad of reasons.

Not being facetious, genuinely interested. What do you see as the main reasons? I don't knwo too much about local government or how it works/doesn't work!

namloc1980

.

Councillors vote against housing shocker in support of local NIMBYs. Terry Shannon said the 38 apartments were an overdevelopment. The proposed site is adjacent to the possible future Luas line at the Blackrock greenway that the councillors celebrated when CMATS was launched! This city is screwed with these guys in charge. They have zero vision and can't look beyond the next election and as such spend their time placating locals for votes.

D'Agger

Cllr Shannon called for the council not to go against the City Development Plan, saying it was “unacceptable” to change zoning from sport to housing, and that he has never seen it happen before.

“There is no point building communities on one hand, and destroying communities on the other hand,” he said.

Well this is foolish thinking to say the least - it's never happened before, so it's unacceptable? How would this destroy the community? Traffic can be poor around Blackrock I get that but this isn't even specifically called out as an issue, speaking in broad strokes to garner votes from the locals who don't want this.

Cllr Lorna Bogue said she was against the development, but warned that the proposal could be sent to An Bord Pleanala “and have a decision forced on us.”

She also said she didn’t want to create a precedent for developers to be able to approach sports clubs in financial distress to buy land for developments.

As opposed to the boom days where Mallow & Clonakilty had their sites bought off them with new, massive complexes built for them further away, outside of their towns. This has/is already going on. Blackrock hurling club in financial distress - my eye!