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RIC and DMP to be commemorated this month

ZuluDawn2020

Apparently a ceremony is going to be held attended by the Minister for Justice and Garda Commissioner to comemorate members of the DMP (Dublin Metropolitan Police) and RIC (Royal Irish Constabulary) killed during the Irish Revolution.

Does anyone else think this is grotesque?

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Montage of Feck

I don't believe historical revisionist arselicking is a neccesity for a United Ireland. How about we just do our best to create a tolerant and progressive republic now, I can't imagine too many educated rational young people up north would subscribe to the bigoted backwards ideology of unionism.

AudreyHepburn

Sir Oxman wrote: »

They are not being written out - they are in every textbook and the actual recommendation of the expert group was for an academic seminar/conference on those same organisations.

The RIC was an armed militia, not just the 'police'.

And that would have been a far better way to do it without a doubt.

weldoninhio

https://bit.ly/2rZFmYZ

Excellent summation of the RIC and the DMP from a contributor to Newstalk yesterday.

Sir Oxman

bubblypop wrote: »

A lot of their families joined AGS

Which is why the HARP group of ex-garda with RIC ancestors lobbied Flanagan and him being what he is duly obliged to assist with the rehabilitation and whitewashing of what they did without due regard to parameters agreed for the national commemorations.
Except it all came a bit unstuck.

AudreyHepburn

ReginaldSmythV wrote: »

Do you think England’s queen should lead a commemoration for the Provisional IRA in London?

Of course not.

Again I don’t actually think the commemoration was good idea, just that it’s being made to been even worse than it actually was intended to be.

[Deleted User]

AudreyHepburn wrote: »

My queen? I’m Irish born and bred, I have no queen.

It was a commemoration not a celebration, there is a difference.

But again I’m glad it’s been cancelled.

Do you think England’s queen should lead a commemoration for the Provisional IRA in London?

FrancieBrady

ReginaldSmythV wrote: »

So how many of you does your enemy have to kill before it’s not right to celebrate them?

Would you be happy to see your queen leading a commemoration for the Provisional IRA in London?

By Charlie's logic she should be happy to lead one for IRA members who were 'British'. And there are many, according to her own government and courts who have just recently decreed that contrary to the GFA anyone born in NI is British.

Sir Oxman

AudreyHepburn wrote: »

Both worked predominantly as independent organizations. The RIC were just a police force.

Besides this is a commemoration not a celebration. We can’t just pretend any of the three were never here, they were all hugely important parts of our history. We can’t just write them out of it.

But again this probably shouldn’t ever have been organized.

They are not being written out - they are in every textbook and the actual recommendation of the expert group was for an academic seminar/conference on those same organisations.

The RIC was an armed militia, not just the 'police'.

McMurphy

AudreyHepburn wrote: »

Like all Irish people I know exactly what the British empire and it’s various agents did to this country.

I just think a mountain was being made of molehill here.

Again it was a commemoration not a celebration. There’s a difference.

At least it’s be canceled now.

Deferred not cancelled Flanagan reckons.

AudreyHepburn

ReginaldSmythV wrote: »

So how many of you does your enemy have to kill before it’s not right to celebrate them?

Would you be happy to see your queen leading a commemoration for the Provisional IRA in London?

My queen? I’m Irish born and bred, I have no queen.

It was a commemoration not a celebration, there is a difference.

But again I’m glad it’s been cancelled.

AudreyHepburn

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Who is writing anybody out?

You clearly have not read what is written in copious accounts what the RIC and the Tans did here. And please stop trying the revisionism of separating them. There are actual adverts printed in England looking for recruits to join the RIC - 'the finest police force in the world'.

Like all Irish people I know exactly what the British empire and it’s various agents did to this country.

I just think a mountain was being made of molehill here.

Again it was a commemoration not a celebration. There’s a difference.

At least it’s be canceled now.

weldoninhio

bubblypop wrote: »

A lot of their families joined AGS

Want a hand with those goalposts?

[Deleted User]

AudreyHepburn wrote: »

They’re two entirely different things and you know it.

The Nazis committed systematic mass murder on an industrial scale. There is no comparison.

So how many of you does your enemy have to kill before it’s not right to celebrate them?

Would you be happy to see your queen leading a commemoration for the Provisional IRA in London?

The Rape of Lucretia

FTA69 wrote: »

The Auxiliaries were the worst of all as they were tasked with counter-insurgency.

Surely counter-insurgency is the correct way to deal with terrorists and revolutionaries, and to be applauded ? How can it possibly make anyone the worst ???

weldoninhio

AudreyHepburn wrote: »

Both worked predominantly as independent organizations. The RIC were just a police force.

Besides this is a commemoration not a celebration. We can’t just pretend any of the three were never here, they were all hugely important parts of our history. We can’t just write them out of it.

But again this probably shouldn’t ever have been organized.

How did the Tans and the Auxes know who to pick up? How did they gain such good knowledge of the lay of the land? How did they know what houses were safehouses etc?? The RIC was a traitorous force. Informers and enablers for the Tans and Auxes.

KWAG2019

It’s quite clear that there are manufactured “narratives” about the RIC/DMP being just police, just Irish Etc etc. It’s as if trying to meet the needs of some theory of historiography.
BTW I have the usual suspects on ignore.

corner of hells

Millionaire only not wrote: »

Why are people posting there people were in the ric , keep it quiet u should be ashamed of urselfs !

Why should I be ashamed of my family being in the RIC ?
I'm proud of all my family, including those who fought in the Civil War on both sides, War of Independence, served and are still serving as Gardai and soldiers , even those who fought in WW1.

It hasn't dawned on you , that the final chapter of history is never written and we cant eradicate our past.

AudreyHepburn

ReginaldSmythV wrote: »

It’s neither as it’s cancelled.

Would you apply the same logic to Jews commemorating the Nazis? Big part of their history after all...

They’re two entirely different things and you know it.

The Nazis committed systematic mass murder on an industrial scale. There is no comparison.

contrary_devil

FrancieBrady wrote: »

I think that is were most stand on this. There is also nobody stopping families and groups remembering these people if that is what they want to do.
The line was drawn when the 'state'(or Charlie Flanagan Josepha Madigan and Leo Varadkar it seems, acting as the state, without wider discussion) decided to commemorate these 'organisations'.
In fairness they did jump back behind that line promptly given their stubbornness and eventual capitulation on other issues.

It seems from the snippet I heard on a news item that this commemoration was decided upon against the advice of people appointed to advise the said politicians.

I also think that Mr Flanagan was a little untactful when he spoke about RIC members being murdered, "killed in the line of duty" might have been a little better and given the opposition he should have cancelled the event rather than defer.

FrancieBrady

AudreyHepburn wrote: »

Both worked predominantly as independent organizations. The RIC were just a police force.

Besides this is a commemoration not a celebration. We can’t just pretend any of the three were never here, they were all hugely important parts of our history. We can’t just write them out of it.

But again this probably shouldn’t ever have been organized.

Who is writing anybody out?

You clearly have not read what is written in copious accounts what the RIC and the Tans did here. And please stop trying the revisionism of separating them. There are actual adverts printed in England looking for recruits to join the RIC - 'the finest police force in the world'.

[Deleted User]

weldoninhio wrote: »

About 4% joined AGS. Hardly many.

A lot of their families joined AGS

McMurphy

AudreyHepburn wrote: »

Just for a clarity as regards who is who in all this;https://amp.independent.ie/irish-news/news/explainer-the-ric-the-black-and-tans-and-their-legacy-in-ireland-38841668.html

I think a lot of the anger at this is coming from misunderstanding who it actually is who is being commemorated.

I made the same mistake myself at first.

If I understand correctly it’s the RIC and the Auxiliaries being commemorated not the Black and Tans.

Probably not the governments brightest move but neither is it as bad as is being out.

That's like saying we should have a national Garda day.

But not for the Roads policing cos they don't count.

weldoninhio

extra gravy wrote: »

How the fück would you know what he did or didn't do? Just keep making assumptions and tarring them all with the same brush. Sure he'd be a saint if he had been on the other side murdering before and behind him in the name of "freedom".

“My grandad was in the RIC and like most in it he wasn't a murderer or a traitor“ - as per above “How the fcuk would you know what he did or didn’t do?”

SilverKrest

Anyone ever see Germany commemorating the SS?

[Deleted User]

AudreyHepburn wrote: »

Both worked predominantly as independent organizations. The RIC were just a police force.

Besides this is a commemoration not a celebration. We can’t just pretend any of the three were never here, they were all hugely important parts of our history. We can’t just write them out of it.

It’s neither as it’s cancelled.

Would you apply the same logic to Jews commemorating the Nazis? Big part of their history after all...

extra gravy

Millionaire only not wrote: »

Why are people posting there people were in the ric , keep it quiet u should be ashamed of urselfs !

I'm more ashamed to be the same nationality as the likes of you.

AudreyHepburn

FTA69 wrote: »

The Auxiliaries were the worst of all as they were tasked with counter-insurgency. The Black and Tans and the Auxiliaries were part of the RIC by the way.

Both worked predominantly as independent organizations. The RIC were just a police force.

Besides this is a commemoration not a celebration. We can’t just pretend any of the three were never here, they were all hugely important parts of our history. We can’t just write them out of it.

But again this probably shouldn’t ever have been organized.

FrancieBrady

contrary_devil wrote: »

It is my opinion that this event should not have been even suggested let alone organised. My opposition to it isn't based on whether individual members were good or bad people but solely on what the RIC as an organisation represented, it was the policing arm of an occupying nation given the task of forcibly implementing the laws of that nation on this country quite too often in a brutal manner. I think the ideology of the RIC was to serve and protect the interests of the occupiers rather than the general population of this country who had little or no democratic say in the making of those laws or how they were implemented.

I think that is were most stand on this. There is also nobody stopping families and groups remembering these people if that is what they want to do.
The line was drawn when the 'state'(or Charlie Flanagan Josepha Madigan and Leo Varadkar it seems, acting as the state, without wider discussion) decided to commemorate these 'organisations'.
In fairness they did jump back behind that line promptly given their stubbornness and eventual capitulation on other issues.

weldoninhio

saabsaab wrote: »

That may be true of some but not all. As said before many were friends with Michael Collins and joined the GS on establishment.

About 4% joined AGS. Hardly many.

Millionaire only not

Why are people posting there people were in the ric , keep it quiet u should be ashamed of urselfs !