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M20 - Cork to Limerick [preferred route chosen; in design - phase 3]

BluntGuy

The new M20 motorway inbetween Cork and Limerick. I've heard that there are many people that feel it's rather unnecessary considering the traffic volume.

I personally believe if they're going to upgrade the N20 route, they may as well use the safest long-term solution, which of course is a direct motorway link. But what do you all think?

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Isambard

there is quite a flow from/to West COrk via Macroom Millstreet and Kanturk up to Charleville that you wouldn't really think of. HGVs use this route quite commonly, These would be a shoe-in to swap to the M20 if the City is bypassed.

There's also flows from the Duhallow area through both Nadd and Bweeng to Cork City.

hans aus dtschl

marno21 wrote: »

I can see the M20 seeing much larger traffic gain than expected due to traffic using lesser routes at present all converging on the M20. Most of the time I go to Limerick from Cork I go via the M8, with exceptions if going to Dooradoyle or Raheen. I would switch to the M20 in all circumstances

Exactly this. A lot of East Cork origin traffic uses the M8 Ballylanders route.

Isambard

hans aus dtschl wrote: »

Exactly this. A lot of East Cork origin traffic uses the M8 Ballylanders route.

Probably still will unless the North Ring motorway connection is built

Chris_5339762

At rush hour I'll always use the Ballylanders route coming from Cobh and going to Limerick. Early Sunday morning I'd use the N20.

Having the M20 without the north ring east would be really stupid, but then I would fight my way through Ballyvolane as the rest of the route would be so much easier.

niloc1951

Isambard wrote: »

Probably still will unless the North Ring motorway connection is built

The R635 (Silversprings to Blackpool) has become a bone-shaking dirt track in places. From East Cork my preference is always M8 - R513 - N24, it's generally quicker and a more relaxed drive than the N20.

Isambard

niloc1951 wrote: »

The R635 (Silversprings to Blackpool) has become a bone-shaking dirt track in places. From East Cork my preference is always M8 - R513 - N24, it's generally quicker and a more relaxed drive than the N20.

that's true but I don't go near Silversprings.....into Glanmire, left at the lights, up the hill, right turn into estate and pop up on the north ring behind Dunnes, Ballyvolane. If it's really busy , I go cross country instead rather than down past Dunnes.

Cork Trucker

Isambard wrote: »

that's true but I don't go near Silversprings.....into Glanmire, left at the lights, up the hill, right turn into estate and pop up on the north ring behind Dunnes, Ballyvolane. If it's really busy , I go cross country instead rather than down past Dunnes.

Cross country such as Veer off at Kearney's cross, on out to Buck Leary's cross, on upto Upper Glanmire,Whites Cross,Kilcully,Old Whitechurch Road and then back onto the N20 via the Old Mallow Road and Fit's Boreen? You'll avoid the traffic but it is really cross country.

Isambard

Cork Trucker wrote: »

Cross country such as Veer off at Kearney's cross, on out to Buck Leary's cross, on upto Upper Glanmire,Whites Cross,Kilcully,Old Whitechurch Road and then back onto the N20 via the Old Mallow Road and Fit's Boreen? You'll avoid the traffic but it is really cross country.

yeah not at all good but if it avoids the City, it can be worth it (only in a car though). I wouldn't come back on to the N20 at all, down into Glanmire village and then out to the roundabout before the tunnel one.

Bazzer007

https://www.corkbeo.ie/news/cork-roads-60m-upgrade-2020-17452369

Isambard

the sceptic in me doubts that this is all new money,

Cork Trucker

It’s amazing what the government can find down the back of the couch approaching an election.

pajoguy

You can expect the preferred route of this rosd to follow extremely similar lines to the 2010 version. There are new guidleines and regulations in force since 2010 but shouldnt have too much of an effect on the old route.

marno21

The above article is an incredibly poorly researched piece of misinformation.

The figures in the article are the standard TII allocations for Cork for 2020. I've posted these on the forum in the Roads investment thread every year since 2017. They simply outline the grants TII are providing to the local authorities for the coming financial year to progress the currently active projects. The 2020 allocations for Cork are here: https://www.tii.ie/tii-library/reports-accounts/tii-allocations-2020/2020NAT_CorkCoCo.pdf (also 3m to Limerick Council for the M20 and 250k to the City Council for the North Ring Road).

marno21

New Project Ireland 2040 documents published today. Here's where the M20 project is currently at:

The documents mention that the scheme will go to tender in 2024. By that going on current timelines, it means a 2025 start and a 2028/29 opening

https://www.gov.ie/en/press-release/b701fc-minister-donohoe-publishes-project-ireland-2040-updates-progress-and/

Isambard

disappointing to see the N72 described as the R72.

marno21

Isambard wrote: »

disappointing to see the N72 described as the R72.

It might as well be considering the state of it (and the N73)

Isambard

marno21 wrote: »

It might as well be considering the state of it (and the N73)

very true. Awful roads even with some improvements carried out.

niloc1951

For those not familiar with our rail heritage the Rail Alternative mentioned is the Charleville - Partickswell - Limerick line which closed in 1967 Have a Look Here

In bygone days there was a direct link to Limerick from Cork without needing to go via Limerick Jct., about 130 years ago (19th. centuary) a special for the Cork Races took 2h20min with 6 stops along the way. Nowadays it can take as long to drive in 21st. century technology.

Cork Trucker

niloc1951 wrote: »

For those not familiar with our rail heritage the Rail Alternative mentioned is the Charleville - Partickswell - Limerick line which closed in 1967 Have a Look Here

In bygone days there was a direct link to Limerick from Cork without needing to go via Limerick Jct., about 130 years ago (19th. centuary) a special for the Cork Races took 2h20min with 6 stops along the way. Nowadays it can take as long to drive in 21st. century technology.

The station house in Patrickswell is now a private residence and the track is still there.

serfboard

niloc1951 wrote: »

about 130 years ago (19th. centuary) a special for the Cork Races took 2h20min with 6 stops along the way. Nowadays it can take as long to drive in 21st. century technology.

Sure enough it's a terrible road - but I don't think it's ever taken me 2h20min.

The bulk of the journey, distance-wise, is Blarney to Patrickswell, a distance of 80km. When the M20 is built this will take 40 minutes.

As for getting in and out of Limerick or Cork city centres, this will have to be taken care of by Park n'Rides. There are plenty of places along the train line into Cork where a Park n' Ride, similar to the very successful one in Oranmore, Co Galway, could be built.

Isambard

Cork Trucker wrote: »

The station house in Patrickswell is now a private residence and the track is still there.

The Charleville link joined the North Kerry/ Foynes line at Patrickswell. The Foynes line is often mooted for re-opening for freight to the port, the track is in place throughout afaik.

Cork Trucker

Isambard wrote: »

The Charleville link joined the North Kerry/ Foynes line at Patrickswell. The Foynes line is often mooted for re-opening for freight to the port, the track is in place throughout afaik.

I knew about the Foynes bit, didn;t realise North Kerry was joined up to it, this is the same North Kerry line that they want to make a greenway out of?

Bass Reeves

Isambard wrote: »

The Charleville link joined the North Kerry/ Foynes line at Patrickswell. The Foynes line is often mooted for re-opening for freight to the port, the track is in place throughout afaik.

Foynes/Limerick is unlikly to open. Foynes/Adare bypass/Limerick road is gone to planning. That ends the rail option.

niloc1951

Bass Reeves wrote: »

Foynes/Limerick is unlikly to open. Foynes/Adare bypass/Limerick road is gone to planning. That ends the rail option.

An interesting comment, seems to sugest the old permament way will get bulldozed to make way for the road.
I've seen so many examples of new roads being built over/under long abandoned rail lines in Europe, perhaps they know something about protecting that infrastructure for possable future use we don't.
The LUAS Green Line is a good example of upcycling old dissused assets.

Bass Reeves

niloc1951 wrote: »

An interesting comment, seems to sugest the old permament way will get bulldozed to make way for the road.
I've seen so many examples of new roads being built over/under long abandoned rail lines in Europe, perhaps they know something about protecting that infrastructure for possable future use we don't.
The LUAS Green Line is a good example of upcycling old dissused assets.

No rather that after building a new road all the way to Foynes it is unlikely they will build a rail. Rail has little to offer in area's of small population as they do not have the frequency for people to use

Reputable Rog

niloc1951 wrote: »

An interesting comment, seems to sugest the old permament way will get bulldozed to make way for the road.
I've seen so many examples of new roads being built over/under long abandoned rail lines in Europe, perhaps they know something about protecting that infrastructure for possable future use we don't.
The LUAS Green Line is a good example of upcycling old dissused assets.

The Foynes line won’t be built over. A number of new railway bridges are included in the scheme.
The EU want the line reopened as do Shannon Foynes Port company.
The line is in poor condition in places and a lot of work is required on a number of bridges, the line also needs to be relaid at Weston and Rosbrien.

Isambard

quite right, and it's not proposed to carry passengers so the population isn't relevant.

[Deleted User]

marno21 wrote: »

New Project Ireland 2040 documents published today. Here's where the M20 project is currently at:

Does this mean they are actively considering routing the Cork to Limerick motorway via the M8, diverging at Mitchelstown?

prunudo

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Does this mean they are actively considering routing the Cork to Limerick motorway via the M8, diverging at Mitchelstown?

My take on that is that they are exploring all options. However, none of the other routes address the issue that the n20 itself needs to be upgraded and towns bypassed.

AugustusMinimus

The N72 option seems most logical and would be my preference.

Another good option would be to route via the N22 / Tralee.