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Home heating automation

[Deleted User]

Just starting to look into this now though probably wont be purchasing for a while unless a bargain pops up.

I know there are a number of options out there for this but many like the Nest for example appear to be mostly based around running automatically depending on temp etc or learning your usage.

What I want to know is which one is best to use like a traditional timer? I'd want to set a schedule for heating and water to come on and off and also boost it if I felt like it. Learning my usage or using the thermostat to turn on/off the heating is not something I would really use.

I do want to be able to boost the heat and water remotely so the place is warm before arriving home and have a nice interface for setting timers using an app as we change around our water and heating timing quite often and its a pain having to do this using the poor user interfaces and controls on a traditional heating timer.

I'm assuming they can all be used in this way but I wonder if any device in particular is more geared towards this type of usage?

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Shefwedfan

I have a Climote, works but the yearly contract is a bit of pain

Was thinking of swapping but wondering is it hard to switch? Would I need electrician?

I have another house without WiFi so sticking the climote into that would make sense

Essien

I have 2 heating zones (upstairs and downstairs), controlled by what I assume is a regular 2 gang switch.

I'd like to be able to control these remotely or set them on a schedule. I'm not particularly concerned with Google/Alexa compatibility.

Can anyone recommend a switch?

I've seen a few on Amazon that look like they'd do the trick but reviews are hit and miss. Some say they don't work in the UK/Ireland.

2011

Shefwedfan wrote: »

Was thinking of swapping but wondering is it hard to switch? Would I need electrician?

If you know what you are doing it is not difficult to switch as the wiring is already in place.
If you are not confident then I suggest you get an electrician to do it.

Sonoff is the cheapest option but the user interface is not as fancy as other options such as the Nest.

I have another house without WiFi so sticking the climote into that would make sense

Yes, although paying for something that the opposition provide for free is a bit frustrating.

Shefwedfan

2011 wrote: »

If you know what you are doing it is not difficult to switch as the wiring is already in place.
If you are not confident then I suggest you get an electrician to do it.

Sonoff is the cheapest option but the user interface is not as fancy as other options such as the Nest.

Thanks, for the climote I just whipped out the switch in the hot press and replacement with climote. The termostat on wall I didn't change. Electrician was onsite and said not to bother.

Would Nest work the same?

2011 wrote: »

Yes, although paying for something that the opposition provide for free is a bit frustrating.

Problem is other house has no wifi. It is holiday home, the climote will just connect to local mobile network and work better. I don't know of another option which works on mobile

tech

would like to get some smart heating setup

Current setup

Downstairs, Under floor 6 zones all with Heat Miser stats in the rooms, most rooms setup to 18 deg and it cuts in and out as needed to maintain this heat,

up stairs is rads, and only only on a digital 3 programs a day timer. would like options to make this smarter, what can i do for this ?? many thanks

deezell

tech wrote: »

would like to get some smart heating setup

Current setup

Downstairs, Under floor 6 zones all with Heat Miser stats in the rooms, most rooms setup to 18 deg and it cuts in and out as needed to maintain this heat,

up stairs is rads, and only only on a digital 3 programs a day timer. would like options to make this smarter, what can i do for this ?? many thanks

Assuming the UFH stats are wired, replace these with wired smart stats such as Tado, which have an onboard relay, or the wired version of Netatmo. Upstairs, as there is no stat, you need to replace the 3 event timer with a Tado ext kit receiver and a wireless connected tado stat, or else a Netatmo wireless stat and receiver, with receiver of choice wired in place of the 3 event timer.

So 7 stats, one of them wireless. You can do the UFH rooms in stages, as funds allow, say start with 2 smart zones, the wireless to receiver for upstairs, and the most suitable of the downstairs UFH zones. I'm assuming there is no timing on the UFH zones, they operate at set temperature 24/7. You should be able to diy swap UFH stats, replacing the 3 event timer with the wireless reveiver of choice is a minor wiring task, trivial for a sparks if you're not up to it yourself.

deezell

Essien wrote: »

I have 2 heating zones (upstairs and downstairs), controlled by what I assume is a regular 2 gang switch.

I'd like to be able to control these remotely or set them on a schedule. I'm not particularly concerned with Google/Alexa compatibility.

Can anyone recommend a switch?

I've seen a few on Amazon that look like they'd do the trick but reviews are hit and miss. Some say they don't work in the UK/Ireland.

Drayton wiser kit 3. The receiver will wire up in place of the two gang switch, the two wireless thermostats can be wall mounted in their respective zones. You can set up schedules for each with different times and temperature events.
If you just want a cheap switching solution with no temperature measuring or control, just get a 2 gang remote app control wall switch like this.
https://www.amazon.co.uk/Innens-Compatible-Assistant-Control-Required/dp/B07X3HCP34

Postman Pat

Hi guys. I have a climote at the mo with a Viessman 100-W WB1B pump boiler. I have a crappy danfoss wired stat upstairs in the hall and downstairs in the hall. I use climote for hot water and up/down heat. I'd like to move to a system that I can start controlling temperature room and room. I was looking at Tado, Drayton wiser and Evohome. Tado said if I had a climote it won't replace it. Seems nonsense to me when Tado have a hot water extension kit but thats what they said. I like the idea of the separate touch screen controller with the evo home. I read some cons re Tado and multiple zones and if the internet drop you lose central control.

Ultimately I'd like to start off small with smart TRVs in a couple of rooms ( baby room and main bed for e.g.) and build up as I know its gets expensive to do the whole house. I'd like something that will allow me to control centrally.

I was told by Drayton that I need a standard UK backplate don't know if I have that.

As I'm green to this stuff im finding it hard to know what model will work for my basic system so looking for advice.

Anyone here that can guide me or even share some gotchas one might need to be aware off with tado/drayton/evohome.

aido79

Haven't read through the whole thread but has anyone tried anything like this using a raspberry pi

https://www.raspberrypi.org/forums/viewtopic.php?t=197806

Or am I better off just going with one of the commercial options and if so which one?
It's just a basic 3 zone system, ie 2 zones for heating plus hot water.

bluemachaveli

aido79 wrote: »

Haven't read through the whole thread but has anyone tried anything like this using a raspberry pi

https://www.raspberrypi.org/forums/viewtopic.php?t=197806

Or am I better off just going with one of the commercial options and if so which one?
It's just a basic 3 zone system, ie 2 zones for heating plus hot water.

I haven't tried that Raspberry Pi version, but I have kind of gone a similar route by putting together my own system using Home Assistant. I've a similar setup to yourself with 2 zone heating and an additional zone for hot water. I removed the heating controller and installed a Sonoff Pro flashed with Tasmota in it's place.

This gave me basic on/off switches for each zone in Home Assistant. To get an accurate reading of the temp in each room, I put in some Zigbee sensors around the house. With everything set up, I created two new sensors based on the average temp upstairs & downstairs and fed these into a software based Thermostat.

I've some basic automations set up so far, but hope to amp these up in the future. For remote access, I use the home kit integration to push everything through to the Home app on my phone and share out with the rest of the household that way.

Dr.Winston O'Boogie

Does anyone think the Nest thermostats will drop in Jan sales?

Seems to be roughly 250 euro from what I can see, just wondering if there is anywhere cheaper to buy that anyone knows?

Shefwedfan

bluemachaveli wrote: »

I haven't tried that Raspberry Pi version, but I have kind of gone a similar route by putting together my own system using Home Assistant. I've a similar setup to yourself with 2 zone heating and an additional zone for hot water. I removed the heating controller and installed a Sonoff Pro flashed with Tasmota in it's place.

This gave me basic on/off switches for each zone in Home Assistant. To get an accurate reading of the temp in each room, I put in some Zigbee sensors around the house. With everything set up, I created two new sensors based on the average temp upstairs & downstairs and fed these into a software based Thermostat.

I've some basic automations set up so far, but hope to amp these up in the future. For remote access, I use the home kit integration to push everything through to the Home app on my phone and share out with the rest of the household that way.

You available for hire? :P

Mugser

aido79 wrote: »

Haven't read through the whole thread but has anyone tried anything like this using a raspberry pi

https://www.raspberrypi.org/forums/viewtopic.php?t=197806

Or am I better off just going with one of the commercial options and if so which one?
It's just a basic 3 zone system, ie 2 zones for heating plus hot water.

Kit here;
https://www.ebay.ie/itm/283079198676?ssPageName=STRK:MESELX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1555.l2649

ted1

Dr.Winston O'Boogie wrote: »

Does anyone think the Nest thermostats will drop in Jan sales?

Seems to be roughly 250 euro from what I can see, just wondering if there is anywhere cheaper to buy that anyone knows?

https://shop.electricireland.ie/products/install-detail/nest-thermostat?gclid=Cj0KCQiAr8bwBRD4ARIsAHa4YyKdtZUvbce_ApVgAcWGdq-MPRFTu-m_-1J4jySsHNKX2OG3RradAB8aAjixEALw_wcB&gclsrc=aw.ds

deezell

aido79 wrote: »

Haven't read through the whole thread but has anyone tried anything like this using a raspberry pi

https://www.raspberrypi.org/forums/viewtopic.php?t=197806

Or am I better off just going with one of the commercial options and if so which one?
It's just a basic 3 zone system, ie 2 zones for heating plus hot water.

The problem with projects like the one you linked,is that it's never finished. Unless you live alone, you need a system thats as easy as turning on the lights. For your setup, the drayton wiser Kit 3 straight out of the box is perfect. 3 zones, 2 HW, 1 CH, wireless stats. If you already have wired wall stats, a couple of Tado stats wired in their place will instantly smarten your heating. You can leave whatever timer you have in place for HW, its a bit daft in this day and age to be fiddling with the HW, just get a mechanical stat for the hw cylinder to keep it topped up.

Valhallapt

this is a good setup, I am planning to do the same. I don’t think I like the exposed wires coming out of the bottom, can you share some more pictures?

I was thinking of using two aqara double rockers hooked up to leds but the sonoff has less moving parts, probably a better solution all round.

I’ll use home assistant too, have aqara thermostats in place already

bluemachaveli wrote: »

I haven't tried that Raspberry Pi version, but I have kind of gone a similar route by putting together my own system using Home Assistant. I've a similar setup to yourself with 2 zone heating and an additional zone for hot water. I removed the heating controller and installed a Sonoff Pro flashed with Tasmota in it's place.

This gave me basic on/off switches for each zone in Home Assistant. To get an accurate reading of the temp in each room, I put in some Zigbee sensors around the house. With everything set up, I created two new sensors based on the average temp upstairs & downstairs and fed these into a software based Thermostat.

I've some basic automations set up so far, but hope to amp these up in the future. For remote access, I use the home kit integration to push everything through to the Home app on my phone and share out with the rest of the household that way.

markc1184

My central heating (gas) is currently setup with just an APT time clock. Radiators and hot water are controlled with this but there is also a separate immersion switch at the cylinder. Are there any smart options available for this kind of setup?

deezell

Postman Pat wrote: »

Hi guys. I have a climote at the mo with a Viessman 100-W WB1B pump boiler. I have a crappy danfoss wired stat upstairs in the hall and downstairs in the hall. I use climote for hot water and up/down heat. I'd like to move to a system that I can start controlling temperature room and room. I was looking at Tado, Drayton wiser and Evohome. Tado said if I had a climote it won't replace it. Seems nonsense to me when Tado have a hot water extension kit but thats what they said. I like the idea of the separate touch screen controller with the evo home. I read some cons re Tado and multiple zones and if the internet drop you lose central control.

Ultimately I'd like to start off small with smart TRVs in a couple of rooms ( baby room and main bed for e.g.) and build up as I know its gets expensive to do the whole house. I'd like something that will allow me to control centrally.

I was told by Drayton that I need a standard UK backplate don't know if I have that.

As I'm green to this stuff im finding it hard to know what model will work for my basic system so looking for advice.

Anyone here that can guide me or even share some gotchas one might need to be aware off with tado/drayton/evohome.

The Drayton comes with a suitable backplate. The Kit3 will directly replace the climote timer. Tado can be used also, the stats will wire in place of the existing ones, the ext kit can control the HW zone. Either option will require some reasonable wiring skills to install. The simplest diy option is to just replace the crap CH stats with Tado wired in, set the climote controller to always on for both CH zones and continue to use it for HW control. The Tado app will time and temperature schedule your CH.

aido79

deezell wrote: »

The problem with projects like the one you linked,is that it's never finished. Unless you live alone, you need a system thats as easy as turning on the lights. For your setup, the drayton wiser Kit 3 straight out of the box is perfect. 3 zones, 2 HW, 1 CH, wireless stats. If you already have wired wall stats, a couple of Tado stats wired in their place will instantly smarten your heating. You can leave whatever timer you have in place for HW, its a bit daft in this day and age to be fiddling with the HW, just get a mechanical stat for the hw cylinder to keep it topped up.

Looks good...but probably a little out of the price range for now.

bluemachaveli

Shefwedfan wrote: »

You available for hire? :P

, I've hardly enough time as it is, but happy to answer and questions you have if you attempt it yourself!

deezell wrote: »

The problem with projects like the one you linked,is that it's never finished. Unless you live alone, you need a system thats as easy as turning on the lights. For your setup, the drayton wiser Kit 3 straight out of the box is perfect. 3 zones, 2 HW, 1 CH, wireless stats. If you already have wired wall stats, a couple of Tado stats wired in their place will instantly smarten your heating. You can leave whatever timer you have in place for HW, its a bit daft in this day and age to be fiddling with the HW, just get a mechanical stat for the hw cylinder to keep it topped up.

Agree that these builds can sometimes be janky, but I'll give some additional context. I live in a house with my partner and daughter and everything I install has to pass the ease of use test.

- There's two main operations of use, on & off via the phone if they want heat & timers that are set via the automations tab in the app. I've been running this for almost 12 months with no issues or complaints.

- The more advanced automations are just for myself messing in the back end.

- Not dependant on the cloud, if the internet goes down all still functions over local wifi (aside from remote access, although I am looking at getting a GoMo sim as a failover for the home network).

- Redundant switch option (see below for explanation)

- Cheap & expandable, so far the cost of just the heating system is running me about $100 for the switch and 6 thermostats for each of the main rooms in the house. Can easily add more as I need at a tiny cost.

Valhallapt wrote: »

this is a good setup, I am planning to do the same. I don’t think I like the exposed wires coming out of the bottom, can you share some more pictures?

I was thinking of using two aqara double rockers hooked up to leds but the sonoff has less moving parts, probably a better solution all round.

I’ll use home assistant too, have aqara thermostats in place already

I'd be the same with the wires, however in this case the control unit is locked away in its own cabinet with no daily interactions. The Sonoff Pro supports RF, so I've a three way battery operated RF switch in the kitchen for each zone. It's programmed direct to the Sonoff so no hub or anything in between.

I'm using the Aqara thermostats too, can't recommend the Conbee II dongle enough if you are going this route. Cuts out the need for the Hub and works with other Zigbee stuff. The IKEA smart-plugs are a bargain at €10 each and work flawlessly.

Happy to throw up more pics, what are you looking to see?

Valhallapt

bluemachaveli wrote: »

No , I've hardly enough time as it is, but happy to answer and questions you have if you attempt it yourself!

Agree that these builds can sometimes be janky, but I'll give some additional context. I live in a house with my partner and daughter and everything I install has to pass the ease of use test.

- There's two main operations of use, on & off via the phone if they want heat & timers that are set via the automations tab in the app. I've been running this for almost 12 months with no issues or complaints.

- The more advanced automations are just for myself messing in the back end.

- Not dependant on the cloud, if the internet goes down all still functions over local wifi (aside from remote access, although I am looking at getting a GoMo sim as a failover for the home network).

- Redundant switch option (see below for explanation)

- Cheap & expandable, so far the cost of just the heating system is running me about $100 for the switch and 6 thermostats for each of the main rooms in the house. Can easily add more as I need at a tiny cost.

I'd be the same with the wires, however in this case the control unit is locked away in its own cabinet with no daily interactions. The Sonoff Pro supports RF, so I've a three way battery operated RF switch in the kitchen for each zone. It's programmed direct to the Sonoff so no hub or anything in between.

I'm using the Aqara thermostats too, can't recommend the Conbee II dongle enough if you are going this route. Cuts out the need for the Hub and works with other Zigbee stuff. The IKEA smart-plugs are a bargain at €10 each and work flawlessly.

Happy to throw up more pics, what are you looking to see?

I’m using Conbee also. Just the wiring and the button press on the sonoff pro if possible. Is it very tactile/ rugged?

At the moment we go to the utility room to switch on/ off the heating, so I need it to be at least as reliable as that, so if internet or WiFi go down or every battery in the house is dead I need to press a physical button to switch on the heating.

bluemachaveli

Valhallapt wrote: »

I’m using Conbee also. Just the wiring and the button press on the sonoff pro if possible. Is it very tactile/ rugged?

At the moment we go to the utility room to switch on/ off the heating, so I need it to be at least as reliable as that, so if internet or WiFi go down or every battery in the house is dead I need to press a physical button to switch on the heating.

Picture of the wiring below, about the best I can get as it's in a tight space. The little clips keep the wires very secure, no chance of them slipping out without a decent amount of force. I keep meaning to tag the wires should that happen, but thats how they were installed day one.

The push buttons on the Sonoff itself seem pretty durable, but I don't use them that often. I'd recommend a cheap battery RF switch, I've the one pictured below that I picked up for a couple of $ off Ali Express. It's battery powered and just sticks to the wall with some double sided tape. Button 1 is mapped to Hot Water, 2 is Downstairs Zone and 3 is the Upstairs one. Has the nice bonus of operating direct with the unit so stays functional outside of Home Assistant.

deezell

aido79 wrote: »

Looks good...but probably a little out of the price range for now.

£175 here, https://www.box.co.uk/Drayton-Wiser-Smart-Heating-Kit-3-For-Co_2249018.html
€235 at screwfix.ie
Seriously though, how much will you have left of €235 after you buy all the diy parts in the other replies. Fun as they are as projects, it would need to be perfect before you could unleash it on family. I don't see an actual physical wall thermostat in there either, you know, the little boxes on the wall where you can read the temperature and adjust it. Thats a big part of what you are paying for with a ready made system. No phones or apps required, (though you can also set it all by app), just tap the wall stat and set it to what you want. I'm all for tinkering, but sometimes life's too short to stuff an olive. Even if you dont price your own time getting it all together, if you have to get a sparks in to do some of the wiring to the zone valves, he'll be in the dark about your homebrew system, and will have no way of testing it. You'll need to be able to wire up and test all the zone valve switching after you've built and programmed your low level devices, and this is mains switching so you need to be sure of whats what.

statto25

I have a Flash Immermat 31100 timer switch connected to my Oil boiler. Boiler heats water and rads together. I dont want smart capability as such only the ability to switch on the boiler remotely from my phone to the switch over wifi in my home. Would the below WIFI switch work?

https://www.amazon.co.uk/HBN-Wall-Mounted-Compatible-Assistant-Anywhere/dp/B07PYWFKDY/ref=sr_1_5?crid=1HJ0ULCPZVR8Q&keywords=wifi+timer+switch&qid=1578305739&sprefix=wifi+timer%2Caps%2C145&sr=8-5

deezell

statto25 wrote: »

I have a Flash Immermat 31100 timer switch connected to my Oil boiler. Boiler heats water and rads together. I dont want smart capability as such only the ability to switch on the boiler remotely from my phone to the switch over wifi in my home. Would the below WIFI switch work?

https://www.amazon.co.uk/HBN-Wall-Mounted-Compatible-Assistant-Anywhere/dp/B07PYWFKDY/ref=sr_1_5?crid=1HJ0ULCPZVR8Q&keywords=wifi+timer+switch&qid=1578305739&sprefix=wifi+timer%2Caps%2C145&sr=8-5

T'would indeed.

statto25

deezell wrote: »

T'would indeed.

Cheers Deezell! Its prob been answered a million times but wanted to be sure after browsing the thread

deezell

Dr.Winston O'Boogie wrote: »

Does anyone think the Nest thermostats will drop in Jan sales?

Seems to be roughly 250 euro from what I can see, just wondering if there is anywhere cheaper to buy that anyone knows?

Good deal here for €219 in screwfix.ie, who have real shops in Swords, Sandyford and Waterford as well as online.
https://www.screwfix.ie/p/google-nest-smart-thermostat-hot-water-control-silver/9382x

aido79

deezell wrote: »

£175 here, https://www.box.co.uk/Drayton-Wiser-Smart-Heating-Kit-3-For-Co_2249018.html
€235 at screwfix.ie
Seriously though, how much will you have left of €235 after you buy all the diy parts in the other replies. Fun as they are as projects, it would need to be perfect before you could unleash it on family. I don't see an actual physical wall thermostat in there either, you know, the little boxes on the wall where you can read the temperature and adjust it. Thats a big part of what you are paying for with a ready made system. No phones or apps required, (though you can also set it all by app), just tap the wall stat and set it to what you want. I'm all for tinkering, but sometimes life's too short to stuff an olive. Even if you dont price your own time getting it all together, if you have to get a sparks in to do some of the wiring to the zone valves, he'll be in the dark about your homebrew system, and will have no way of testing it. You'll need to be able to wire up and test all the zone valve switching after you've built and programmed your low level devices, and this is mains switching so you need to be sure of whats what.

What's wrong with this one that was recommended?
https://go.skimresources.com/?id=61111X1383796&isjs=1&jv=13.25.2-stackpath&sref=https%3A%2F%2Ftouch.boards.ie%2Fthread%2F2057758281%2F134&url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.ebay.ie%2Fitm%2F283079198676%3FssPageName%3DSTRK%3AMESELX%3AIT%26_trksid%3Dp3984.m1555.l2649&xguid=01DJSXJKS17E9JDKGAXFE2XYWT&xs=1&xtz=0&xuuid=0365a4d0419313103086be9c7b47e581

It's €90 and seems to do all I need it to do.

I'm an electrician so don't really have to worry about any of the problems you described.

deezell

aido79 wrote: »

What's wrong with this one that was recommended?
https://go.skimresources.com/?id=61111X1383796&isjs=1&jv=13.25.2-stackpath&sref=https%3A%2F%2Ftouch.boards.ie%2Fthread%2F2057758281%2F134&url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.ebay.ie%2Fitm%2F283079198676%3FssPageName%3DSTRK%3AMESELX%3AIT%26_trksid%3Dp3984.m1555.l2649&xguid=01DJSXJKS17E9JDKGAXFE2XYWT&xs=1&xtz=0&xuuid=0365a4d0419313103086be9c7b47e581

It's €90 and seems to do all I need it to do.

I'm an electrician so don't really have to worry about any of the problems you described.

It seems to have all you need. I see each unit is powered by 5v USB, except for the battery operated sensors, so I presume you have to supply the mains adaptors. Like I said through, all your interface is via an app/phone, and I would put a high value on having a pair of actual thermostats with input and display. The lack of these would account for a large part of the reduced cost of the pi system.
I'd also value the level of the room temperature and boiler modulation algorithms, geo-fencing, response learning etc. that goes with the commercial smart stat products, I think that to have all that in a proprietary package for just over twice the €110 delivery price of the pi kit represents good value.
This does look like a great kit for the pi enthuasist, no doubt it is wide open to all kinds of adaptation, experimentation and upgrading, plenty of fun there , but a bit like the Linux satellite receivers that no one's partner could get the hang of, it's not for everyone. A well assembled kit even so.

deezell

markc1184 wrote: »

My central heating (gas) is currently setup with just an APT time clock. Radiators and hot water are controlled with this but there is also a separate immersion switch at the cylinder. Are there any smart options available for this kind of setup?

Screwfix have good value in Hive or Drayton wiser single CH zone wireless connected smart stats which would fit the bill, from €150. Very simple install to replace the APT with the wireless receiver. The 2 zone version of these can also control HW without rads if the plumbing of your system facilitates HW only (assuming your gas boiler heats a HW cylinder).