RIC and DMP to be commemorated this month

Sunny Disposition wrote: »

If there was a ceremony for everyone killed in the conflict maybe one could say fair enough, but picking out the side responsible for both the conflict and denying the population freedom is outrageous.

In that event the State must also honour those who actively fought and those who died for our freedom in a separate ceremony. The reluctance to do this reveals how deeply revisionism, false inclusivity, appeasement and lack of national self respect has become ingrained in public discourse. It is deeply shameful.

[Deleted User]

CrankyHaus wrote: »

So we should commemorate, that is have a state ceremony of respect for, anything, any Irish person has ever done, ever?

Looking forward to the state commemoration of Lord Haw Haw so: "Shure he was just a Galway lad who was mad for the Nazis, people need to move on".

Eoin Duffy's contingent of Fascist volunteers in the Spanish Civil War:
"Irishmen no different than the rest of us, only barstool Republicans and Communists would have a problem with paying our respects to their courage".

Remembering our history "warts and all" would acknowledge the reality of the RIC rather than whitewash it. This proposal is the opposite of remembering our history; it is a proposal to forget our history and replace it with lies.

If there was a ceremony for everyone killed in the conflict maybe one could say fair enough, but picking out the side responsible for both the conflict and denying the population freedom is outrageous.

weldoninhio

Hamsterchops wrote: »

Indeed myth has it that Countess Markievicz dispatched one of those "that deserved to be killed" by shooting him in the head in Stephens Green. Apparently this constable on foot tried to usher the Fenians out of the park so she shot him dead, for this she's a hero and he's almost forgotten.....

And a myth it indeed is. Not hard to dispel.

[Deleted User]

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

No one deserves to be killed for either their political beliefs or simply doing their job.

No one.

Of course some people deserve to be killed for doing their job, puerile nonsense. Scientists working on chemical weapons for rogue regimes for example.

CrankyHaus

is_that_so wrote: »

This is a decade of commemorations so there will be occasions where some people will feed a need to be offended. It's just a recognition of a period our history, warts and all.

So we should commemorate, that is have a state ceremony of respect for, anything, any Irish person has ever done, ever?

Looking forward to the state commemoration of Lord Haw Haw so: "Shure he was just a Galway lad who was mad for the Nazis, people need to move on".

Eoin Duffy's contingent of Fascist volunteers in the Spanish Civil War:
"Irishmen no different than the rest of us, only barstool Republicans and Communists would have a problem with paying our respects to their courage".

Remembering our history "warts and all" would acknowledge the reality of the RIC rather than whitewash it. This proposal is the opposite of remembering our history; it is a proposal to forget our history and replace it with lies.

BarryD2

ZuluDawn2020 wrote: »

Apparently a ceremony is going to be held attended by the Minister for Justice and Garda Commissioner to comemorate members of the DMP (Dublin Metropolitan Police) and RIC (Royal Irish Constabulary) killed during the Irish Revolution. Does anyone else think this is grotesque?

No, it seems perfectly reasonable and appropriate in a so called decade of commemoration.

is_that_so

This is a decade of commemorations so there will be occasions where some people will feed a need to be offended. It's just a recognition of a period our history, warts and all. It's always better to be offended by the living so at least you can get back at them.

whisky_galore

I'll be having a good chuckle at barstool republican outrage, the nearest they'll ever get to a war zone is Call Of Duty.

Scoundrel

spurious wrote: »

And many RIC resigned when the Tans were introduced.
And there were hundreds of letters of complaint sent by serving RIC men as to what was going on with the Tans.

The whole story, not just part of it. As I said, cartoonish versions.

Oh letters of complaint I bet that shook the British war machine to it's core alright :rolleyes: also what is being done here is an official state commemoration of the RIC men who fought and died to maintain british occupation of our country they provided intelligence that led to the murders of Irish freedom fighters. The state is conferring legitimacy on the very forces that fought to stop the state from being created it's lunacy and complete revisionism no doubt being pushed by the unionist wing of FG Flanagan Richmond and that poppy wearing eejit in Roscommon.

CrankyHaus

saabsaab wrote: »

Those that didn't may not have a choice out of fear or loyalty to their colleagues. Have you in your heart the capacity to forgive those fellow Irishmen who may have been misguided or on the wrong side of history. Is it not time now? A commemoration need not be a celebration or a mark of approval.

A commemoration is by definition respectful remembrance. Unless otherwise clearly stated this is an endorsement of everything the RIC did and the language used by those proposing it clearly attempts to legitimise their actions.

A state remembrance of the Irishmen in the RIC that made clear it did not endorse the RIC itself would be a very different matter than what is being proposed.

KWAG2019 wrote: »

They were only valued because of their capacity to know and report in their community. When many of them finally saw what the Brits wanted of them they resigned. Many didn’t.

Honour their resignations, not their service.

Those that didn't may not have a choice out of fear or loyalty to their colleagues. Have you in your heart the capacity to forgive those fellow Irishmen who may have been misguided or on the wrong side of history. Is it not time now? A commemoration need not be a celebration or a mark of approval.

corner of hells

Bambi wrote: »

The RIC generally did not allow their men to serve in their own communities. It would be hard to smash a families home up and put them out on the street when they know your parents.

That was the norm , RIC were placed miles away from their home towns.

saabsaab wrote: »

That is true too, however it shows that they largely were part of their community apart from some die hards. Sometimes people end up on the wrong side of history.

The RIC generally did not allow their men to serve in their own communities. It would be hard to smash a families home up and put them out on the street when they know your parents.

Church on Tuesday

ZuluDawn2020 wrote: »

Apparently a ceremony is going to be held attended by the Minister for Justice and Garda Commissioner to comemorate members of the DMP (Dublin Metropolitan Police) and RIC (Royal Irish Constabulary) killed during the Irish Revolution.

Does anyone else think this is grotesque?

Well a lot of the members of those forces, if not all, were Irishmen so no not really.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ETfdL5TE1Ec.

saabsaab wrote: »

That is true too, however it shows that they largely were part of their community apart from some die hards. Sometimes people end up on the wrong side of history.

They were only valued because of their capacity to know and report in their community. When many of them finally saw what the Brits wanted of them they resigned. Many didn’t.

Honour their resignations, not their service.

[Deleted User]

KWAG2019 wrote: »

Many resigned under pressure from their community and IRA action. We should honour their resignation not their service. Those who continued to serve chose to attempt to continue British colonialism in Ireland by force.

That is true too, however it shows that they largely were part of their community apart from some die hards. Sometimes people end up on the wrong side of history.

saabsaab wrote: »

There was a story of a commanding officer instructing RIC men in Cork to shoot first and ask questions later. One RIC man stood out of the parade and said 'you forget you are talking to irishmen' When an order was given to arrest that man not one moved.

It was more than one RIC man who walked out of that briefing, the infamous "the more you shoot the more I'll like you " speech by a Colonel Smyth

spurious wrote: »

And many RIC resigned when the Tans were introduced.
And there were hundreds of letters of complaint sent by serving RIC men as to what was going on with the Tans.

The whole story, not just part of it. As I said, cartoonish versions.

Many resigned under pressure from their community and IRA action. We should honour their resignation not their service. Those who continued to serve chose to attempt to continue British colonialism in Ireland by force.

There was a story of a commanding officer instructing RIC men in Cork to shoot first and ask questions later. One RIC man stood out of the parade and said 'you forget you are talking to irishmen' When an order was given to arrest that man not one moved.

spurious

FTA69 wrote: »

More revisionist rubbish. As someone said above, the RIC worked hand in hand with the Black and Tans and served alongside them in their barracks.

And many RIC resigned when the Tans were introduced.
And there were hundreds of letters of complaint sent by serving RIC men as to what was going on with the Tans.

The whole story, not just part of it. As I said, cartoonish versions.

Bambi wrote: »

Don'r confuse them? Were you down the back sniffing glue in history class along with the rest of the larries parading around here spouting nonsense about the RIC just local bobbies on the beat?

You realise the Black and Tans were actually called the Royal Irish Constabulary Special Reserve and the Auxies were the The Auxiliary Division of the Royal Irish Constabulary

They were the RIC and the RIC got what was a long time coming to them in the War of Independance.

Yes I am aware of that but they were acting largely independently of the main RIC. What about those who worked for the rebels at great risk?

corner of hells

Bambi wrote: »

Don'r confuse them? Were you down the back sniffing glue in history class along with the rest of the larries parading around here spouting nonsense about the RIC just local bobbies on the beat?

You realise the Black and Tans were actually called the Royal Irish Constabulary Special Reserve and the Auxies were the The Auxiliary Division of the Royal Irish Constabulary

They were the RIC and the RIC got what was a long time coming to them in the War of Independance.

You'd want to see the memorial stone left in memory of the RIC men in my family.

FTA69

More revisionist rubbish. As someone said above, the RIC worked hand in hand with the Black and Tans and served alongside them in their barracks.

saabsaab wrote: »

I believe that a UI is around the corner and many 'Loyalists' see this too.

Although RIC and DMP ended up on the wrong side in 1919-1921 most were at the time ordinary policemen caught up in it and trying to do a job. Several were unhappy with the way the force was used to subjugate the Irish people and worked often in secret for the rebels. A relation of mine was in the DMP but died in the first world war.

Don't confuse them with the 'Black and Tans' or 'Auxiliaries' specifically recruited to put down the rebellion they are a different group.

Don'r confuse them? Were you down the back sniffing glue in history class along with the rest of the larries parading around here spouting nonsense about the RIC just local bobbies on the beat?

You realise the Black and Tans were actually called the Royal Irish Constabulary Special Reserve and the Auxies were the The Auxiliary Division of the Royal Irish Constabulary

They were the RIC and the RIC got what was a long time coming to them in the War of Independance.

The generation who knew the RIC/DMP best was the generation that fought them, killed them and broke them. That is the only verdict that matters. It would be great if we had a government proud enough of our own country to let it stand.

I believe that a UI is around the corner and many 'Loyalists' see this too.

Although RIC and DMP ended up on the wrong side in 1919-1921 most were at the time ordinary policemen caught up in it and trying to do a job. Several were unhappy with the way the force was used to subjugate the Irish people and worked often in secret for the rebels. A relation of mine was in the DMP but died in the first world war.

Don't confuse them with the 'Black and Tans' or 'Auxiliaries' specifically recruited to put down the rebellion they are a different group.

corner of hells wrote: »

Yup , bearing in mind the DMP were largely unarmed.

Unlike the RIC who were armed like a militia in their *checks notes* ..yep..in their barracks.

Although some would have you think they went about their business of keeping the locals in check with only feather dusters and a cheery smile