The Dominance of Dublin GAA Mod warning post#1

RoyalCelt wrote: »

Galway were removed from the Connaught hurling championship as they were strolling it every year with 20 point hammerings. They entered straight into the all Ireland quarter finals. Now the best situation has been realised and that's them boosting the Leinster hurling championship.

I agree that Dublin should be spilt but personally I'd give you the chance to do the 10 in a row and also to beat kerrys 37.

I would however try and save the Leinster football championship. I'd remove Dublin until they are split. Many options are available, enter at the super 8's, first qualifier round or if another province will have you play there instead. What's the point in you winning 19 out of 20 Leinsters or 29 out of 30.

im not from Dublin so not arguing for them not to be split as a supporter of Dublin.
Dublin not entering the leinster championship is a no go. I dont think Dublin should be split and if they continue to win all round it may drive gaa to put a far better competition format than what exists right now as it isnt working and that's not simply because of Dublin but lot of other reasons as well.

tritium

RoyalCelt wrote: »

Galway were removed from the Connaught hurling championship as they were strolling it every year with 20 point hammerings. They entered straight into the all Ireland quarter finals. Now the best situation has been realised and that's them boosting the Leinster hurling championship.

I agree that Dublin should be spilt but personally I'd give you the chance to do the 10 in a row and also to beat kerrys 37.

I would however try and save the Leinster football championship. I'd remove Dublin until they are split. Many options are available, enter at the super 8's, first qualifier round or if another province will have you play there instead. What's the point in you winning 19 out of 20 Leinsters or 29 out of 30.

You could just move Dublin and Mayo into Munster. That might solve a host of historic issues. Might then over time move a few less successful Munster counties into Leinster...

Hawkeye9212

tritium wrote: »

You could just move Dublin and Mayo into Munster. That might solve a host of historic issues. Might then over time move a few less successful Munster counties into Leinster...

Moving Mayo into Munster is a no go. Just get rid of the Provincials.

tritium

Hawkeye9212 wrote: »

Moving Mayo into Munster is a no go. Just get rid of the Provincials.

I should use [/sarcasm] on posts like that. I’d been tempted to suggest calling Munster “province 1” on the basis cork would likely back any such proposal :pac:

But to be clear, I am suggesting some sort of tiering in the medium term

blanch152

MayoAreMagic wrote: »

He never mentioned county boards at all.
If he had Im entitled to discuss them also. I wasnt on the mayo county board, why wouldnt I be able to? I can only assume your flat out lie about the county board being in his post was to descend the thing into a mud slinging contest, because you cant counter the points that actually were being made...

Any points you make have been well and truly countered many times, but it is a bit rich listening to a Mayo supporter criticising any other well-organised county, given the mess that they are in. The message to other counties from Dublin should be to get your own house in order, and Mayo are in more need of that than anyone else. They splurge over half their income on a vain attempt to get their senior team winning titles, when they would be better off coming up with any kind of a plan to boost the under-age scene, perhaps then they could play a tune at half-time in a county match.

blanch152

The Lost Sheep wrote: »

im not from Dublin so not arguing for them not to be split as a supporter of Dublin.
Dublin not entering the leinster championship is a no go. I dont think Dublin should be split and if they continue to win all round it may drive gaa to put a far better competition format than what exists right now as it isnt working and that's not simply because of Dublin but lot of other reasons as well.

Agreed. If we want a competitive equal championship with every team having a chance to win, we need quite a few amalgamations and a split of at least Kerry as well as Dublin.

dunnerc

RoyalCelt wrote: »

Galway were removed from the Connaught hurling championship as they were strolling it every year with 20 point hammerings. They entered straight into the all Ireland quarter finals. Now the best situation has been realised and that's them boosting the Leinster hurling championship.

I agree that Dublin should be spilt but personally I'd give you the chance to do the 10 in a row and also to beat kerrys 37.

I would however try and save the Leinster football championship. I'd remove Dublin until they are split. Many options are available, enter at the super 8's, first qualifier round or if another province will have you play there instead. What's the point in you winning 19 out of 20 Leinsters or 29 out of 30.

Ah Jack_Goff not this again , your like a broken down record :rolleyes:

RedDevil55

blanch152 wrote: »

Any points you make have been well and truly countered many times, but it is a bit rich listening to a Mayo supporter criticising any other well-organised county, given the mess that they are in. The message to other counties from Dublin should be to get your own house in order, and Mayo are in more need of that than anyone else. They splurge over half their income on a vain attempt to get their senior team winning titles, when they would be better off coming up with any kind of a plan to boost the under-age scene, perhaps then they could play a tune at half-time in a county match.

I'm not sure which points have been countered exactly. 15 years ago, Dublin didn't have their house in order so the GAA and sports Ireland decided to pump them full of grants/coaches far in excess of what their population deserved. The argument was that the GAA needed a strong Dublin. That was achieved in 2011 but the disproportionate funding has continued.

I've made the point here several times that at a minimum the excess funding Dublin are receiving should be given to other counties to hire underage coaches. But apparently there's no point doing that as it won't make a difference? Several posters are now saying it would be more beneficial to weaker counties to put them into tier 2 or 3. How would that help them improve?

Just on the Mayo jibe, as I pointed out previously, there are 4 full-time coaches in Mayo and 2 part-time yet the games development funding being received only covers 2 salaries. Those coaches work with the underage players in the county.

blanch152 wrote: »

Agreed. If we want a competitive equal championship with every team having a chance to win, we need quite a few amalgamations and a split of at least Kerry as well as Dublin.

there will never be a fully competitive equal championship with 32 counties competing. Amalgamations goes against what GAA is about. Every county shouldn't be entitled to compete at top level simply because they always have. Put in proper tiered competition as main competition of the year and give a lot more teams something proper to aim for in the year

RedDevil55 wrote: »

I'm not sure which points have been countered exactly. 15 years ago, Dublin didn't have their house in order so the GAA and sports Ireland decided to pump them full of grants/coaches far in excess of what their population deserved. The argument was that the GAA needed a strong Dublin. That was achieved in 2011 but the disproportionate funding has continued.

I've made the point here several times that at a minimum the excess funding Dublin are receiving should be given to other counties to hire underage coaches. But apparently there's no point doing that as it won't make a difference? Several posters are now saying it would be more beneficial to weaker counties to put them into tier 2 or 3. How would that help them improve?

Just on the Mayo jibe, as I pointed out previously, there are 4 full-time coaches in Mayo and 2 part-time yet the games development funding being received only covers 2 salaries. Those coaches work with the underage players in the county.

does GAA even have to fund in full the cost of these officers. Surely counties should be funding them with clubs chipping in part of cost? IRFU directly fund part of wages of some club development officers with the clubs then paying rest of the wages. They then have a lot of their own development officers they pay full cost of their salaries.

blanch152

RedDevil55 wrote: »

I'm not sure which points have been countered exactly. 15 years ago, Dublin didn't have their house in order so the GAA and sports Ireland decided to pump them full of grants/coaches far in excess of what their population deserved. The argument was that the GAA needed a strong Dublin. That was achieved in 2011 but the disproportionate funding has continued.

I've made the point here several times that at a minimum the excess funding Dublin are receiving should be given to other counties to hire underage coaches. But apparently there's no point doing that as it won't make a difference? Several posters are now saying it would be more beneficial to weaker counties to put them into tier 2 or 3. How would that help them improve?

Just on the Mayo jibe, as I pointed out previously, there are 4 full-time coaches in Mayo and 2 part-time yet the games development funding being received only covers 2 salaries. Those coaches work with the underage players in the county.

Mayo raise vast amounts of money from their supporters but fritter it away and refuse to be accountable for the money raised, I don't need to go over all those details, they are well-known.

Dublin get more money for games development coaches, because they have more juveniles playing the game. Simple as. If we gave Leitrim the same money as Dublin, every U-14 player in Leitrim could have a personal coach.

The Lost Sheep wrote: »

Dublin deserve a lot of the funding they get in development funding when you look at the number of people there.

How many times in the last few pages alone has it been pointed out that the funding is disproportionate even when Dublin's population is taken into account.

The Lost Sheep wrote: »

I'm talking about rural cork as representative of many areas of country as the GAA is very much first sport for majority of people and kids. That isnt really the same in a city with a much wider range of activities on offer.

There's competition from other sports in rural areas too. I don't know where this idea that people exclusively play GAA in the country comes from.

The Lost Sheep wrote: »

Should difference be as much as it is no but solution isnt splitting Dublin.

Glad you finally accept the funding is disproportionate even after denying it only a few sentences before.

The Lost Sheep wrote: »

What happens if the two dublin sides were to be very successful in comparison to all other counties I assume you would then want them split again. You cant compare Dublin to many other counties who really only ever aspire of a provincial title success every so often. And splitting Dublin makes that potential provincial success so much harder for a lot of leinster counties.

You've just stumbled upon why Dublin should be split in four, not just two. Splitting them helps save the All-Ireland competition and helps all counties. Which makes concentrating the resources in a single team, as they currently are, even more absurd.

The Lost Sheep wrote: »

Sponsorship cannot be pooled. All counties get shares of the competition sponsorship but each is entitled to their own sponsorship as well. Like Barcelona real Madrid dont share their sponsorship deals but do share in the la liga sponsorship deals.

The GAA is an amateur community sporting organisation, not a professional sport worth billions of euro. The sponsorship absolutely should be shared.

Even by the standards of this thread, your posts are incredibly dull and repetitive. Given your refusal to even try to comprehend or address any counter-arguments, I'm just going to copy and paste in previously issued answers if you repeat any of the same points again (e.g Dublin have a bigger population so should get more funding/ How does splitting Dublin help everyone?) etc as this is what you are doing with others.

MayoAreMagic wrote: »

Again, splitting Dublin is not being offered as a silver bullet for every ill in the gaa. Your insistence to address it as such is disingenuous. You already know that voluntary amalgamation has been offered as an option for smaller counties that you speak of above. You seem to deliberately post propaganda on this topic.

I agree. Where does the idea even come from that any possible change to the GAA has to benefit every county to the same extent? It's absolutely absurd. I don't think the GAA funding of Dublin has benefited every county to the same extent anyway, yet the same posters clearly have no concerns in that regard.

But as it happens, splitting Dublin does help every county as it ensures the long term survival and viability of the All-Ireland so the point is irrelevant. In fact, splitting Dublin is one of the few changes that this can be said about.

blanch152 wrote: »

Agreed. If we want a competitive equal championship with every team having a chance to win, we need quite a few amalgamations and a split of at least Kerry as well as Dublin.

No we just need to split Dublin. Dublin are the only team with such an alarming combination of unfair advantages . Again, these advantages include excessive funding from the GAA and their sponsors compared to other counties, population, home pitch advantage and others.

gaffer91 wrote: »

How many times in the last few pages alone has it been pointed out that the funding is disproportionate even when Dublin's population is taken into account.

but funding shouldn't be reduced that much and we should look to find more funding for other counties.

There's competition from other sports in rural areas too. I don't know where this idea that people exclusively play GAA in the country comes from.

competition to a small degree but not that much. Nobody has said gaa is played exclusively by people in rural areas but it's fairly obvious options will be extremely limited in a lot of areas ale specially compared to the cities

You've just stumbled upon why Dublin should be split in four, not just two. Splitting them helps save the All-Ireland competition and helps all counties. Which makes concentrating the resources in a single team, as they currently are, even more absurd.

that isnt at all any reason to split Dublin. Splitting them doesnt save the all Ireland. It alters it forever. It changes it forever. Splitting Dublin will not help louth, wicklow Carlow. It makes no difference to most counties who have never been competitive at latter stages of competition

The GAA is an amateur community sporting organisation, not a professional sport worth billions of euro. The sponsorship absolutely should be shared

what does amateur status of the sport have to do wih it? You wouldnt expect club teams in a county to share sponsorship.

But as it happens, splitting Dublin does help every county as it ensures the long term survival and viability of the All-Ireland so the point is irrelevant. In fact, splitting Dublin is one of the few changes that this can be said about.

Dublin success isnt going to last. Theyve got a new coach and as players retire it is natural they will drop off.

gaffer91 wrote: »

No we just need to split Dublin. Dublin are the only team with such an alarming combination of unfair advantages . Again, these advantages include excessive funding from the GAA and their sponsors compared to other counties, population, home pitch advantage and others.

some teams will always have advantages over others you cant have a completely "equal" playing field anyway.

tritium

The Lost Sheep wrote: »

but funding shouldn't be reduced that much and we should look to find more funding for other counties.

competition to a small degree but not that much. Nobody has said gaa is played exclusively by people in rural areas but it's fairly obvious options will be extremely limited in a lot of areas ale specially compared to the cities

that isnt at all any reason to split Dublin. Splitting them doesnt save the all Ireland. It alters it forever. It changes it forever. Splitting Dublin will not help louth, wicklow Carlow. It makes no difference to most counties who have never been competitive at latter stages of competition

what does amateur status of the sport have to do wih it? You wouldnt expect club teams in a county to share sponsorship.

Dublin success isnt going to last. Theyve got a new coach and as players retire it is natural they will drop off.

some teams will always have advantages over others you cant have a completely "equal" playing field anyway.

Unfortunately some posters here seem to have the notion that if you fix (read hobble) dublin then everything will be just grand with the AI agin. It a mindset born of a scarcely credible notion that somehow pre 2011 everyone in the traditionally weaker counties were happy to take their beatings and then tug a forelock as they cheered the big boys for the rest of the championship, and it somehow only became unfair when once someone other that a handful of traditionally strong (and heavily advantaged) counties were doing it.

tritium wrote: »

Unfortunately some posters here seem to have the notion that if you fix (read hobble) dublin then everything will be just grand with the AI agin. It a mindset born of a scarcely credible notion that somehow pre 2011 everyone in the traditionally weaker counties were happy to take their beatings and then tug a forelock as they cheered the big boys for the rest of the championship, and it somehow only became unfair when once someone other that a handful of traditionally strong (and heavily advantaged) counties were doing it.

Dublin were a traditionally strong county and had the second highest number of titles even before this decade.

Splitting Dublin won't solve all ills but it is a very, very positive step and it's the single most important thing that can be done to enhance the game at inter-county level.

It's a mindset born of the completely credible notion that the scale, duration and combination of advantages Dublin enjoy mean that their current period of dominance is now endless. No other county in footballing history has enjoyed the privileges that Dublin currently do. Once again, these advantages include population, funding and home pitch advantages.

dunnerc

gaffer91 wrote: »

Dublin were a traditionally strong county and had the second highest number of titles even before this decade.

Splitting Dublin won't solve all ills but it is a very, very positive step and it's the single most important thing that can be done to enhance the game at inter-county level.

It's a mindset born of the completely credible notion that the scale, duration and combination of advantages Dublin enjoy mean that their current period of dominance is now endless. No other county in footballing history has enjoyed the privileges that Dublin currently do. Once again, these advantages include population, funding and home pitch advantages.

Once again , no matter how many times you whinge about Dublin , It aint gonna happen , Dublin will not be split :rolleyes:

gaffer91 wrote: »

Dublin were a traditionally strong county and had the second highest number of titles even before this decade.

Splitting Dublin won't solve all ills but it is a very, very positive step and it's the single most important thing that can be done to enhance the game at inter-county level.

It's a mindset born of the completely credible notion that the scale, duration and combination of advantages Dublin enjoy mean that their current period of dominance is now endless. No other county in footballing history has enjoyed the privileges that Dublin currently do. Once again, these advantages include population, funding and home pitch advantages.

theyve always had population and home pitch advantages. That cant be used as excuse. Population and playing population will always be much bigger in some counties. Dublin success will end. Splitting Dublin doesnt fix any of the major issues in other counties.

blanch152 wrote: »

Any points you make have been well and truly countered many times, but it is a bit rich listening to a Mayo supporter criticising any other well-organised county, given the mess that they are in. The message to other counties from Dublin should be to get your own house in order, and Mayo are in more need of that than anyone else. They splurge over half their income on a vain attempt to get their senior team winning titles, when they would be better off coming up with any kind of a plan to boost the under-age scene, perhaps then they could play a tune at half-time in a county match.

You are telling fibs, again.
The argument to split dublin has reigned supreme on this thread, simply because it cant be countered. You pretended a guy spoke about county boards, when he didnt. Now you are trying to shoe horn county boards in again. This is very clearly, and very predictably, an attempt to drag the debate down to a 'your county is crap' spiel. You are doing this because you cannot function in a reasoned debate. But the reality is, even if my own county were the worst gaa county of all time, that doesnt mean that I, or anyone else cannot see the reality surrounding dublin. You can see the problems yourself too. That is why you want to drag the debate down.

The Lost Sheep wrote: »

theyve always had population and home pitch advantages. That cant be used as excuse. Population and playing population will always be much bigger in some counties. Dublin success will end. Splitting Dublin doesnt fix any of the major issues in other counties.

They were always advantages. Just because they historically failed to take full benefit doesn't mean it wasn't historically unfair.

To use an analogy, say a team starts every game with a five point headstart but only has started winning consistently in recent years. This advantage was still always unfair. Same with Dublin's home advantage and population.

Dublin's success won't end. The necessary conditions are in place for endless dominance, like in Leinster.

Splitting Dublin is not a cure all but it helps to save the All Ireland competition so it helps all counties.

tritium wrote: »

Unfortunately some posters here seem to have the notion that if you fix (read hobble) dublin then everything will be just grand with the AI agin. It a mindset born of a scarcely credible notion that somehow pre 2011 everyone in the traditionally weaker counties were happy to take their beatings and then tug a forelock as they cheered the big boys for the rest of the championship, and it somehow only became unfair when once someone other that a handful of traditionally strong (and heavily advantaged) counties were doing it.

Splitting Dublin would improve the game immensely. It wouldnt fix every issue, nor has that ever been claimed by anyone, enywhere, ever. But it would probably fix more issues in one go than basically any other single fix that is out there. That is the reality.

May I ask, if you feel so strongly about fixing all the ills of every county, particularly those in weaker gaa coubties, why werent you and why arent you railing against so much money going into dublin? Surely one county getting all that cash - lets face it financial doping to the nth degree - flies in the face completely, of what you seem to believe...

dunnerc wrote: »

Once again , no matter how many times you whinge about Dublin , It aint gonna happen , Dublin will not be split :rolleyes:

Why?

gaffer91 wrote: »

They were always advantages. Just because they historically failed to take full benefit doesn't mean it wasn't historically unfair.

To use an analogy, say a team starts every game with a five point headstart but only has started winning consistently in recent years. This advantage was still always unfair. Same with Dublin's home advantage and population.

if you are complaining about population always being unfair then you are digging a hole that you will never get out of. Population varies hugely and will never be fair in terms of being near equal for all counties. And Dublin should play more outside croke park but until counties vote to get them to play games further afield then it cant be a criticism of dublin

Dublin's success won't end. The necessary conditions are in place for endless dominance, like in Leinster.

Splitting Dublin is not a cure all but it helps to save the All Ireland competition so it helps all counties.

it will most certainly end. No team wins forever. Dominates forever. Players or a large group of players move on. Coaches move on. Opposition get stronger. Dublin being split will not fix anything.

MayoAreMagic wrote: »

Splitting Dublin would improve the game immensely. It wouldnt fix every issue, nor has that ever been claimed by anyone, enywhere, ever. But it would probably fix more issues in one go than basically any other single fix that is out there. That is the reality.

May I ask, if you feel so strongly about fixing all the ills of every county, particularly those in weaker gaa coubties, why werent you and why arent you railing against so much money going into dublin? Surely one county getting all that cash - lets face it financial doping to the nth degree - flies in the face completely, of what you seem to believe...

competition format changes will help far more than splitting Dublin. Dublin being split changes a fundamental part of the GAA.

MayoAreMagic wrote: »

Why?

because if we start looking at splitting Dublin then we should be looking at splitting some counties as well merging others.

The Lost Sheep wrote: »

competition format changes will help far more than splitting Dublin. Dublin being split changes a fundamental part of the GAA.

because if we start looking at splitting Dublin then we should be looking at splitting some counties as well merging others.

The gaa is actually just a sport. County dublin isnt fundamental to that sport in any way. That is just pompous nonsense. Splitting dublin helps that sport massively because it makes the sport more competitive.

Re splitting other counties, that isnt based on any facts or figures, it is just spiteful nonsense. Merging others has been visited already, if you had bothered to reading the thread

mcgragger

gaffer91 wrote: »

Dublin were a traditionally strong county and had the second highest number of titles even before this decade.

Splitting Dublin won't solve all ills but it is a very, very positive step and it's the single most important thing that can be done to enhance the game at inter-county level.

It's a mindset born of the completely credible notion that the scale, duration and combination of advantages Dublin enjoy mean that their current period of dominance is now endless. No other county in footballing history has enjoyed the privileges that Dublin currently do. Once again, these advantages include population, funding and home pitch advantages.

Dublin always had the highest population.
But now its an issue?

The stadium issue is an issue. Dublin should play somewhere else other than Croke Park. Im saying that as a Dublin fan. Im tired of Croker. Prefer away games.

Funding issue needs to be addressed but its not going to solve the problem of imbalance given you can only apply the funding to the players you have.

Splitting Dublin is the end of the Intercounty All Ireland.

I've no answers

The Lost Sheep wrote: »

if you are complaining about population always being unfair then you are digging a hole that you will never get out of. Population varies hugely and will never be fair in terms of being near equal for all counties. And Dublin should play more outside croke park but until counties vote to get them to play games further afield then it cant be a criticism of dublin

You're the one who has dug yourself a hole with your ridiculous arguments.

Dublin's population is too much of a statistical outlier. It is larger than the next biggest county doubled. Around a million bigger than the average population. Out of around 5.5 million on the island who care about the game.

You seem to think scale doesn't matter- it does. If it was a few hundred difference people wouldn't care but it's hundreds of thousands.

And then this is combined with all the other unfair advantages like playing at home and funding.

And yes, playing at home is an unfair advantage. It's an advantage in every sport. Would footballers like if the FA Cup final was played in the home ground of a particular team every year? Of course not because that team would be unfairly advantaged.

The Lost Sheep wrote: »

it will most certainly end. No team wins forever. Dominates forever. Players or a large group of players move on. Coaches move on. Opposition get stronger. Dublin being split will not fix anything.

It won't end. You haven't a clue about gaelic football, sport or sporting structures. Five years ago you'd have been saying Dublin couldn't possibly win five in a row.

The necessary conditions are there for Dublin to win forever. These conditions include funding, population and home advantage. Once again- look at Leinster? Is there any possibility that Dublin will be knocked off their perch there in the foreseeable future? Given you think this is a fair set up?

Dublin being split won't solve everything but it will save the All Ireland competition as a viable competition so it will help all counties.

Also, I hope you see you have basically conceded every point. For instance, when shown that the funding is disproportionate, you say "other counties funding should increase" when challenged on your line that greater population should mean more funding (which would be unaffordable, at least without pooling sponsorship and even though probably not) When challenged about Croke Park, you accept they "should play away more often". And yet you still double down on arguments that you have already accepted are flawed.

MayoAreMagic wrote: »

The gaa is actually just a sport. County dublin isnt fundamental to that sport in any way. That is just pompous nonsense. Splitting dublin helps that sport massively because it makes the sport more competitive.

Re splitting other counties, that isnt based on any facts or figures, it is just spiteful nonsense. Merging others has been visited already, if you had bothered to reading the thread

and calls for splitting Dublin isnt spiteful nonsense. I have seen all these posts before but I'm just going with the trend of this thread. As it's similar arguments over and over ....
Counties are fundamental part of the GAA. Its inter county competition. Its clubs, countys not club, then part of some counties against whole counties. Dublin will not dominate long term. There will be lulls. Natural with any successful side in any sport

mcgragger wrote: »

Dublin always had the highest population.
But now its an issue?

The stadium issue is an issue. Dublin should play somewhere else other than Croke Park. Im saying that as a Dublin fan. Im tired of Croker. Prefer away games.

Funding issue needs to be addressed but its not going to solve the problem of imbalance given you can only apply the funding to the players you have.

Splitting Dublin is the end of the Intercounty All Ireland.

I've no answers

Population was always an issue. Glad you accept the other two points though.

Your mistake is looking at the advantages in isolation, rather than all combined. Then it becomes clear that splitting Dublin is the best path.

And a split won't end the intercounty game- it will enhance it, including for people from Dublin. Not splitting Dublin is what will really damage inter- county football, likely fatally.

dunnerc

gaffer91 wrote: »

Population was always an issue. Glad you accept the other two points though.

Your mistake is looking at the advantages in isolation, rather than all combined. Then it becomes clear that splitting Dublin is the best path.

And a split won't end the intercounty game- it will enhance it, including for people from Dublin. Not splitting Dublin is what will really damage inter- county football, likely fatally.

Stop with your nonsense , splitting Dublin will not happen , the Dublin people will never accept it .