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RIC and DMP to be commemorated this month

ZuluDawn2020

Apparently a ceremony is going to be held attended by the Minister for Justice and Garda Commissioner to comemorate members of the DMP (Dublin Metropolitan Police) and RIC (Royal Irish Constabulary) killed during the Irish Revolution.

Does anyone else think this is grotesque?

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TheValeyard

Also agree with the OP, while many in the RIC sided with the IRA and became garda afterwards, there were those in the DMC and RIC who actually helped the Auxiliaries and the Tans. That should not be commemorated. It be like the Germans holding a service for the Gestapo or the Stasi.

TheValeyard

Bambi wrote: »

Blue shirts, Ted. blue shirts.

One assumes Macron will follows Leos brave lead and announce a commemoration for the Vichy regime.

I wonder if the defence forces will be apologizing for beating Noel Lemass to death and dumping his body up the mountains or tying prisoners to landmines. Or will the spirit of reconcilliation not stretch that far?

Yep. The civil war commemorations are going to make some uncomfortable reading.

Dyr

Blue shirts, Ted. blue shirts.

One assumes Macron will follows Leos brave lead and announce a commemoration for the Vichy regime.

I wonder if the defence forces will be apologizing for beating Noel Lemass to death and dumping his body up the mountains or tying prisoners to landmines. Or will the spirit of reconcilliation not stretch that far?

gandalf

Jaysus talk about peak snowflake! This is part of our past, what do you want to do hide it. We've done that with other parts of our history and that's worked out real well hasn't it.

The key word is commemorate not celebrate and as has already been stated if a united Ireland is a goal any of us want then we have to embrace our whole past and not the selective bits that make the OP feel comfortable with.

Montage of Feck

Hamsterchops wrote: »

Yet their an ancesters walk amongst us.....

Many of them "traitors" plain old Dublin policemen on the beat who became the enemy overnight, courtesy of their Republican brothers & sisters who demanded a new State & a total break with our neighbors!

Sounds a bit like a hard Brexit, sadly with lots of death thrown in the mix

Hardly a honest comparison, unless I missed the part where the EU carried out acts of genocide, ethnic and religious descrimination and economic exploitation against the UK.

arybvtcw0eolkf

Doesn't bother me, and if it helps to heal the wounds of the past then let it be.

Most people here don't see the past rear its ugly head too often, or not in your face but I would regularly enough.

As a member of the defence forces there are certain bars and certain area's along the border where I'd be advised not to venture into, because I'm still seen as a 'free state bastard'.

It used to happen more than it does now, but its still there.

As a country we've still got our scars and healing wounds. Let this one be healed and done with.

Del2005

Edgware wrote: »

The Irish people made their wishes known in the 1918 election. Members of the R.I.C. and D.M.P. acted contrary to those wishes. The Republican leadership appealed to these Irishmen to quit in 1919 and support the Republic. Many did, others didnt and participated willingly in prolonging the war, roundng up suspects, assisting the Auxies and Tans

I'd like to see what decision you make when you have to decide on a job or your family dieing of hunger, there was no social welfare then, and maybe they believed that staying in the British Empire was good for Ireland.

As I said neither side has the high ground in a war.

Hamsterchops

The Satanist wrote: »

They were collaborators and traitors. I celebrate only their death.

Yet their an ancesters walk amongst us.....

Many of them "traitors" plain old Dublin policemen on the beat who became the enemy overnight, courtesy of their Republican brothers & sisters who demanded a new State & a total break with our neighbors!

Sounds a bit like a hard Brexit, sadly with lots of death thrown in the mix

corner of hells

I've family members who served in RIC , a father and son , their names appear occasionally in historical journals and the odd newspaper report from courts.
Both reached the rank of County Inspector with one passing away in the 1880s and the other in 1906.

One was prior to joining the RIC ,an officer in the British army and fought in the Napoleonic wars.

Their grave/headstone and career is documented as being of historical interest in Ireland.

The Satanist

They were collaborators and traitors. I celebrate only their death.

r3nu4l

super_furry wrote: »

Not at all.

If there's ever going to be any hopes of a United Ireland, it's going to be crucial to show that unionists and loyalists will be respected and treated as equal in unity.

It may be distasteful to those of a Republican persuasion but gestures like this offer a real example of inclusivity.

This, a thousand times! A true Republican wants a United Ireland, not a 'win'. The only way to successfully achieve that is to ensure all citizens of the country feel welcome and a part of that country. That means commemorating and celebrating all parts of our history, together.

We have far too many pseudo-Republicans in this country who hate 'the prods' and 'the Brits'

super_furry

ZuluDawn2020 wrote: »

Does anyone else think this is grotesque?

Not at all.

If there's ever going to be any hopes of a United Ireland, it's going to be crucial to show that unionists and loyalists will be respected and treated as equal in unity.

It may be distasteful to those of a Republican persuasion but gestures like this offer a real example of inclusivity.

Stovepipe

@edgware (nice English name, by the way), what is forgotten is that hundreds of thousands of Irish lives depended on the income from those police jobs and the Republicans knew that. Lives also depended on remittances and pensions from Irishmen previously or actively serving in the UK armed forces worldwide, so it was not an easy decision for an RIC or DMP person to suddenly quit and deprive their families of an income. Same with Civil Servants, the Royal Mail and countless other jobs that depended on the Empire. Quite often, there was no alternative income available, short of some menial agricultural job or factory job, which invariably paid less and offered worse conditions. The prospect of a future Republic where well-paying jobs would be plentiful,social conditions would improve and where the Irish would have a rightful place in the world were regarded as high fantasy. As for Republicans,many of their households were quite happy to accept remittances in the pound Sterling. Remember the old catcall? "Hates the Crown! Loves the half-crown".
I'd have no issue with commemorating the RIC and DMP, especially when you consider how the Gardai were based on them and depended heavily on their corporate experience to get off the ground.

Edgware

Del2005 wrote: »

Considering that they where Irish people why shouldn't we commemorate them? Picking the wrong side doesn't make them less Irish and in a war neither party has a moral high ground.

The Irish people made their wishes known in the 1918 election. Members of the R.I.C. and D.M.P. acted contrary to those wishes. The Republican leadership appealed to these Irishmen to quit in 1919 and support the Republic. Many did, others didnt and participated willingly in prolonging the war, roundng up suspects, assisting the Auxies and Tans

Del2005

ZuluDawn2020 wrote: »

Apparently a ceremony is going to be held attended by the Minister for Justice and Garda Commissioner to comemorate members of the DMP (Dublin Metropolitan Police) and RIC (Royal Irish Constabulary) killed during the Irish Revolution.

Does anyone else think this is grotesque?

Considering that they where Irish people why shouldn't we commemorate them? Picking the wrong side doesn't make them less Irish and in a war neither party has a moral high ground.

Edgware

ZuluDawn2020 wrote: »

Apparently a ceremony is going to be held attended by the Minister for Justice and Garda Commissioner to comemorate members of the DMP (Dublin Metropolitan Police) and RIC (Royal Irish Constabulary) killed during the Irish Revolution.

Does anyone else think this is grotesque?

Shouldn't this ceremony be held on the same day we commemorate the British agents killed on Bloody Sunday?

I have no problem remembering the thousands of Irishmen killed in the Great War who enlisted for political, economic or adventure reasons but this is going too far