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Messy farm inheritance issue

roosky

Hi all,

I have a friend involved in a messy issue and I would appreciate your opinions on it as she came to me for advice and i want to have a balanced point to make.

Okay so her father and mother have a 80 acre sucker farm, she is actively involved in the farm and also does all book work and herd health and breeding decisions. Working away from home but home every weekend working on farm and takes holidays for calving etc...

She plans to return home in next two years to farm with father (will also have off farm job) and to live on farm or locally. She has two brothers living in Dublin with good jobs and no interest in farming and have no involvement in the farm or never had.

The parents have decided to split the farm equally between the three kids and said one can buy out the other if they want to farm.....obviously buying your home farm even at 2/3 of market value is not an attractive option and planning life and career around a 25 odd acre farm is silly.

Do you feel she has reason to feel upset and let down by her parents as she feels if she was an only son working in agri industry, actively involved in the family farm, planning on moving home and farming and had two sisters with no interest in the farm that the farm would not be split three ways and left unviable looking forward.

Are her parents doing the fairest thing or are they being silly to have a child interested in carrying on the family farm and letting that opportunity slip in the interest of “fairness” regardless of the gender thing ??

TIA

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myshirt

I no longer practice as a solicitor but any good solicitor here would recommend to their client that they give nothing to the daughter.

This will be a nightmare and she seems to be a right sticky one. I'd give her nothing. Absolutely nothing. And let her take an action under the succession act or some promissory estoppel sabre rattling if she wants as she will be in for a surprise.

Zilch, zero, nothing. Not even a sniff. And get it on paper as swiftly as possible. That would be my advice.

Nermal

Maia Great Railing wrote: »

Absolutely disconnected from reality to consider keeping the farm in this scenario. And I agree that in any other context than farming nobody would entertain a similar idea.

It's laughable stuff. Take sentimentality out of it - imagine winning 560K on the Lotto and ask yourself, would you buy this farm?

jackboy

myshirt wrote: »

I no longer practice as a solicitor but any good solicitor here would recommend to their client that they give nothing to the daughter.

This will be a nightmare and she seems to be a right sticky one. I'd give her nothing. Absolutely nothing. And let her take an action under the succession act or some promissory estoppel sabre rattling if she wants as she will be in for a surprise.

Zilch, zero, nothing. Not even a sniff. And get it on paper as swiftly as possible. That would be my advice.

If that is advice from a good solicitor I would hate to see advice from a bad one.

Mortelaro

Parents if under 65 and over 55 could also earn 250 an acre (over 300 where I am) TAX FREE
Why shouldn't they?
It's a min tax free of 30k
They'd never spend it versus farming
Add 20k state pension if the lease is active at 66 and you're over 50k

jaymla627

myshirt wrote: »

I no longer practice as a solicitor but any good solicitor here would recommend to their client that they give nothing to the daughter.

This will be a nightmare and she seems to be a right sticky one. I'd give her nothing. Absolutely nothing. And let her take an action under the succession act or some promissory estoppel sabre rattling if she wants as she will be in for a surprise.

Zilch, zero, nothing. Not even a sniff. And get it on paper as swiftly as possible. That would be my advice.

Daughter that stayed at home working fulltime on family farm for 25 years in England got a 1 million pound payout when parents disinheriated due to not liking her husband and she brought the case to court
In cases where fulltime labour has been provided for a considerable time periods for little our paltry payment a judge will. Usually side with aggrieved child, where promises of inheritance where made and broken, modern day slavery is frowned upon nowadays

JeffKenna

So presently there are 3 children, all of whom work away from the farm. While the girl may feel that based on returning home weekends she should be entitled to the farm I really don't think that's fair on the two brothers. This isn't a situation of one child leaving school and working full time on the farm for years. I don't think working an odd weekend gives her any entitlement over her brothers.

doc22

Mortelaro wrote: »

Parents if under 65 and over 55 could also earn 250 an acre (over 300 where I am) TAX FREE
Why shouldn't they?
It's a min tax free of 30k
They'd never spend it versus farming
Add 20k state pension if the lease is active at 66 and you're over 50k

Perhaps that's the plan and the parents are now putting her straight. I can't imagine inheritance being brought up without being prodded by the daughter. Between the two of them they'll expect to live another 40 years.

I don't see why the two son's who had to move away and make a success of themselves, doing their parents proud be any less entitled in the current situation anyway.

Alrigghtythen

A solution could be to Sell the stock & machinery for money for the brothers and a site. You get the land.

Dunedin

whelan2 wrote: »

I have 2 older sisters and 2 younger brothers. Farm was passed on to me when I was in my 20s. My parents have always been at pains to treat all of us fairly. The rest of them have all gotten deposits for their houses etc. None of them have any interest in the farm. There's one sister who an odd time will say that I must be the favourite as I got the farm. It used to annoy me but the last time I just said you're welcome to it.

Fair play to all. And realistically that’s the only approach. Those with genuine interest in farming will not sell it and the asset value is irrelevant.

roosky

doc22 wrote: »

Ah common, 2 healthy parents in their 60s I'd guess. Not everyone needs this substantial care in old age, the majority of 70/80 year old's are far from cripples. Imagine a sign it over to me completely attitude from a girl who just finished college and comes back the odd weekend to do the books. It's not like she spent 40 years of her prime working full time on the farm. I don't know were this girls massive sense of entitlement is coming from.

She hasn’t a sense of entertainment she would be happy if one of the brothers was interested and was going farming...what gets her is the lack of respect the family have for the farm with the attitude of just sell it or plant it

roosky

Maia Great Railing wrote: »

Two contradictory things are being expressed:

"I only want it because I love farming. It is nothing to do with greed. My brothers are greedy for wanting a share of it."

"All of this work I have done on the farm is for nothing if I do not get everything! I am being taken for a fool and won't do it any more!"

Well which is it? Are they doing the work because they love it and it's a bonding thing with their dad? Or are they putting themselves out massively to the extent that they deserve a huge payout?

No she isn’t saying the brothers are greedy it’s not their decision there is no issue with the brothers, she feels that her parents have looked past giving the option to one child to continue farming

[Deleted User]

roosky wrote: »

She hasn’t a sense of entertainment she would be happy if one of the brothers was interested and was going farming...what gets her is the lack of respect the family have for the farm with the attitude of just sell it or plant it

I don’t think that it’s a lack of respect. It’s just good business sense.

She’s letting her emotions cloud things and needs to step back and get a clear picture.

beauf

roosky wrote: »

S... the lack of respect the family have for the farm ..

What do you think this means. Respect the Farm?

roosky wrote: »

...her parents have looked past giving the option to one child to continue farming

Maybe they don't think shes up to it?

whelan2

beauf wrote: »

What do you think this means. Respect the Farm?

Maybe they don't think shes up to it?

Many a farm has been passed on to the eldest son who probably weren't up to it either, as that was how it was always done

Atlantic Dawn

So many variables here, what if one or both of the parents end up going in to a nursing home and proportions of the farm's value ends up getting taken in fees, it won't be a simple asset split then.

the14thwarrior

I am glad the parents are putting their cards on the table now, as it gives everyone the option of knowing what lies ahead.

Saves the daughter from putting in anymore extra days, hard labour, time, money and love into something that will never be hers.

Saves the sons from feeling guilt, angry and annoyed.

The daughter is emotional and angry that no one except her seems to want to care for the farm, or continue farming. If this is the real issue, then she needs to take a cup of tea or a shot of whiskey or have a bit of cry, whatever it takes to get over it. Because thats the way it is. thats life.

It would seem however much it is not being said, or rejected, that what she really wants is to continue somehow farming herself, or with the help of others, i.e. if no one else wants it, give it to me. Which is not right or fair or proper one way or the other. NO matter how cruel that seems, she is young. If they tell her now she has the farm, then she has the farm and anything, and i mean anything, could happen in the next 10, 20, 30 or 40 years. The parents do not want to take that risk that the farm MAY end up being in one daughters hands, with the other two children not entitled to any inheritance.
At the end of the day, its the parents decision to divide it up.
and she needs to know that now.
or buy out her brothers.
the parents are right to make this decision now

Ginger83

Cavanjack wrote: »

If the brothers have any cop they’d tell the parents to give it to their sister.

Maybe they wouldn't mind. Its only 300k each

Mortelaro

Alrigghtythen wrote: »

A solution could be to Sell the stock & machinery for money for the brothers and a site. You get the land.

A solution would be let the parents decide what to do themselves
I know of one case where a farmers 3 sons all had to buy their own land to farm
The parents educated them and trained them
The eldest has now inherited the home farm in its entirety on the death of the father
I do hate hate hate senses of entitlement,just as much as I think the son/daughter who works the farm all his/her life does so without an agreed sucession plan

Donnielighto

Was the farm split when it was given to the father or did he get the whole whack? I'm from a farming family, I've some interest but my brother is muh more into farming, I've always been of the opinion that he should get the land in it's entirety, splitting farms up is a mugs game. You split it you have to out in sheds, a yard etc, the other guys will have no interest in that. Does the father think shell be able to cover a mortgage on the other 2/3 with farm income, that seems ambitious.

Young95

Could she not keep plugging away and then whenever the day comes just contest the will ? She’d probably win ..

Millionaire only not

Ginger83 wrote: »

Maybe they wouldn't mind. Its only 300k each

Sure what’s 300k in the big smoke , u wouldn’t get a back garden for it or tis only few years rent!
Wouldn’t they nearly spend it on cocaine in a year anyway! Them country lads love to keep up with city folk

Donnielighto

beauf wrote: »

What do you think this means. Respect the Farm?

Maybe they don't think shes up to it?

Respect the farm would be about keeping the landholding together. The smaller the holding the less viable it becomes. Good chance the farm has been in family hands for 100 years or so if not more at this point

whelan2

Young95 wrote: »

Could she not keep plugging away and then whenever the day comes just contest the will ? She’d probably win ..

Parents could live another 30 years at least. Who in their right mind would wait that long?

GrasstoMilk

Young95 wrote: »

Could she not keep plugging away and then whenever the day comes just contest the will ? She’d probably win ..

You'd be surprised. My father bought the farm inc the debt it had incured, looked after his mother till the day she died and his sister got everything, even the things his father had left him. She only appeared once every so often for Sunday tea

3rdDegree

GrasstoMilk wrote: »

You'd be surprised. My father bought the farm inc the debt it had incured, looked after his mother till the day she died and his sister got everything, even the things his father had left him. She only appeared once every so often for Sunday tea

How in God's name did that happen?

The J Stands for Jay

roosky wrote: »

No it’s an 80 acre suckler farm in the west of Ireland it’s not and never will be viable to pay off a €373,333 debt and interest on top of that !

The business is viable to justify farming it into the future but not to pay off that kind of debt

If that's the case, what is the valuation based on? Is that value based on development potential?

It sounds like the suckler business is a waste of resources and it's only viable as the current owner isn't factoring in their cost of capital.

Ginger83

Millionaire only not wrote: »

Sure what’s 300k in the big smoke , u wouldn’t get a back garden for it or tis only few years rent!
Wouldn’t they nearly spend it on cocaine in a year anyway! Them country lads love to keep up with city folk

Aye they could enjoy their inheritance

[Deleted User]

Panch18 wrote: »

It’s only a part time farm anyway

It’s simple, she does the work, they don’t, so she should get it

does everyone who works in a farm deserve to get the whole of the farm?

not really how assets work.

salary for work, ownership for investment.

also can't see how a farm generating 10k a year could be valued at near 900k- who has valued it at this, and who would pay it?

if the farm doesnt pay, then wanting to keep it on "because farming" is hobby stuff, no reason at all siblings should give anything up for that

pablo128

The daughter should book a fortnight in Lanzarote the next time there's calving to be done. I'm sure the mother wouldn't mind being up all night giving a hand.

GrasstoMilk

3rdDegree wrote: »

How in God's name did that happen?

A ****ty solicitor on my fathers side and a even ****tier judge. My father sold that farm before his mother died and she changed the will out of spite