Domestic solar PV quotes 2018

Was digging around for something else and came across this. I remember been told this was been done but never seen the report

http://www.dublincity.ie/sites/default/files/content/Press/dccPressPacks/Documents/IBM%20smarter%20cities%20challenge%20Dublin%20report.pdf

Fairly interesting from a Solar PV point of view is why I have posted here. This was done in 2014. As usual DCC have done f**k all with it.

As far as I remember the grant they got was 500k worth of consultancy.

Today, one of the shortest days, with not much of sunshine, data shows almost 22% of energy came from PV. Not bad at all.

tech

joujoujou wrote: »

Today, one of the shortest days, with not much of sunshine, data shows almost 22% of energy came from PV. Not bad at all.

thats good stats, what type of system have you got ?

Donadea Leo

Ok, really only starting to consider this, hot water cylinder kicked the bucket at weekend, gas boiler on it's absolute last kegs and need new one, so started thinking of new efficient gas boiler and supplementing with solar thermal to avail of free hot water in summer and boost in winter. This thread has made me think of solar pv, I m in mid west if anyone could PM me some recommended contractors/examples. Our electricity is about 850 per year, my wife works part time so house is occupied in day time 4 days per week, washing done those days. I m really confused by all the info to be honest. If we went with Pv would we generate enough hot water with diverter, need to get this straight before ordering new hot water cylinder. We have a bath and 2 showers, one is electric, the electric one is only thing we use, up to know we never seem to have enough hot water for shower/bath so would be good to have this option any advice welcome. I m mindful Grant's have changed impacting on what s available for different size systems.

Leo there are a few separate issues raised in your post. 1) HW cylinder. Get a well insulated and relatively large cylinder. 300l is my recommendation. Whatever mode of heating water you use having a larger well insulated cylinder will mean more hot water.
2) Solar PV is not the most efficient way of heating water through solar. If all you care about is HW, go for solar thermal tubes. For that you will need a cylinder with at least two heating coils. One connects to the boiler and the second to the solar thermal tubes.
3) However PV is good at generating electricity which can be used for more things than water. Typically a diverter only kicks in once you battery is full and there is excess above your usage. Depending on the size of your install you probably will have excess from March to October. A larger cylinder will mean you can use more of that excess instead of exporting it to the grid for free. In this scenario a single coil cylinder will be sufficient.

There is no grant for solar thermal as far as I know.

If getting a new efficient boiler there is small 100€ grant. If you get heating controls at the same time you get another bigger grant. I got €700 though that went to the installer really. Look at the home automation forum for heating controls advice.

Alkers

Donadea Leo wrote: »

Ok, really only starting to consider this, hot water cylinder kicked the bucket at weekend, gas boiler on it's absolute last kegs and need new one, so started thinking of new efficient gas boiler and supplementing with solar thermal to avail of free hot water in summer and boost in winter. This thread has made me think of solar pv, I m in mid west if anyone could PM me some recommended contractors/examples. Our electricity is about 850 per year, my wife works part time so house is occupied in day time 4 days per week, washing done those days. I m really confused by all the info to be honest. If we went with Pv would we generate enough hot water with diverter, need to get this straight before ordering new hot water cylinder. We have a bath and 2 showers, one is electric, the electric one is only thing we use, up to know we never seem to have enough hot water for shower/bath so would be good to have this option any advice welcome. I m mindful Grant's have changed impacting on what s available for different size systems.

How many showers do you have? Are any electric? How many people are living in your house?
If the cylinder and boiler need replacing, I'd at least consider a combi boiler. Heats hot water on demand as you need it. During the summer you won't need to run the heating at all so your bills will drop right off. When you consider the energy required to heat/keep a 300l cylinder at temperature a combi boiler makes a lot of sense

Donadea Leo wrote: »

Ok, really only starting to consider this, hot water cylinder kicked the bucket at weekend, gas boiler on it's absolute last kegs and need new one, so started thinking of new efficient gas boiler and supplementing with solar thermal to avail of free hot water in summer and boost in winter. This thread has made me think of solar pv, I m in mid west if anyone could PM me some recommended contractors/examples. Our electricity is about 850 per year, my wife works part time so house is occupied in day time 4 days per week, washing done those days. I m really confused by all the info to be honest. If we went with Pv would we generate enough hot water with diverter, need to get this straight before ordering new hot water cylinder. We have a bath and 2 showers, one is electric, the electric one is only thing we use, up to know we never seem to have enough hot water for shower/bath so would be good to have this option any advice welcome. I m mindful Grant's have changed impacting on what s available for different size systems.

850 is not really big....my electric bill is 150 per month.

If I was you I wouldn't look at PV at the moment. Invest in a high temp air to water heat pump. Put in a new high insulated tank and then look at small changes for your electricity

Like make sure all bulbs are swapped. Maybe smart bulbs so they turn on/off automatic. Put in night meter and then heat water at night and use during the day etc......

tech wrote: »

thats good stats, what type of system have you got ?

Thank you.

4.34 kWp (14 x peimar 310W) + Solax 4.5 kWh battery + Solax X1 hybrid 3.7 inverter, pointed SSW, 30 degrees incline, Mayo/Roscommon border. Anything else you want to know, don't hesitate to ask.

Donadea Leo

Thanks for helpful replies, had the heat pump on the wish list but plumber talked me out of it, he said current system isn't pressurised so risky to change that using existing pipes etc.
We have underfloor heating downstairs but rads upstairs so not ideal for choosing optimum service. It's very hard to get independent advice on these issues, which is why I m here.
There s 4 of us in house, gas Bill's are ok again around 950 per annum, no heating controls or zones, there are stats on wall but I ve never once heard the boiler shut off because its hit the desired temp, insulation also needs upgrading, that's on the to do list also, new boiler and hot water cylinder is taking priority as currently no h w c and boiler keeps switching itself off, power going as opposed to the right temp in house.
Has anyone used old system to put in heat pump and were there problems.
My wife thinks we should listen to plumber, to be fair he knows a lot more about it than me, but I would like to reduce our environmental impact and make house more efficient, he might be less concerned about that but more worried about things breaking down.
Solar thermal might mean we use non electric shower more and reduce electric shower usage, which probably around 10 showers a week, I swim a bit so this reduces the shower usage a bit.
Thanks again for helpful responses

tech

Thankd for reply, approx how much was the out lay
Have a 2011 build so no grant availble but would like to get in this PV. But ESB bills only 65e a month and about 1200l of oil a year €950 a year

so I dont know will I save much ??

Donadea Leo wrote: »

Thanks for helpful replies, had the heat pump on the wish list but plumber talked me out of it, he said current system isn't pressurised so risky to change that using existing pipes etc.
We have underfloor heating downstairs but rads upstairs so not ideal for choosing optimum service. It's very hard to get independent advice on these issues, which is why I m here.
There s 4 of us in house, gas Bill's are ok again around 950 per annum, no heating controls or zones, there are stats on wall but I ve never once heard the boiler shut off because its hit the desired temp, insulation also needs upgrading, that's on the to do list also, new boiler and hot water cylinder is taking priority as currently no h w c and boiler keeps switching itself off, power going as opposed to the right temp in house.
Has anyone used old system to put in heat pump and were there problems.
My wife thinks we should listen to plumber, to be fair he knows a lot more about it than me, but I would like to reduce our environmental impact and make house more efficient, he might be less concerned about that but more worried about things breaking down.
Solar thermal might mean we use non electric shower more and reduce electric shower usage, which probably around 10 showers a week, I swim a bit so this reduces the shower usage a bit.
Thanks again for helpful responses

Plumbers will tell you what they can install. That’s it, with under floor and radiators I don’t see why a heat pump would not be recommended

I would get a second opinion to be honest.

tech wrote: »

Thankd for reply, approx how much was the out lay
Have a 2011 build so no grant availble but would like to get in this PV. But ESB bills only 65e a month and about 1200l of oil a year €950 a year

so I dont know will I save much ??

Cost 11250 before 3800 grant.

Had bills 110-120 a month, plus unknown amount of oil (buying in relatively small amounts north of the border from time to time).

rolion

Just quickly to remind that there is a wealthy SEAI grant for solar tubes.

rolion wrote: »

Just quickly to remind that there is a wealthy SEAI grant for solar tubes.

I stand corrected in that case.

A heat pump is most effective in a house with good insulation. You can put one in a D rated house but you’ll find the house will get cold on cold windy days. That said there is no reason why a heat pump can’t service half underfloor and half rads. And I don’t think you need to worry to much about pipes of going from unpressurised to pressurised if they are regular copper pipes.

Is your electric shower for heating and water pressure or just pressure? If the former then a large HW cylinder will be less useful. Note that the larger a cinder the better it retains heat as heat loss is proportional to surface area which goes down as a proportion of the volume of water as the volume increases. I suggested a larger cylinder as you mention in your original post you don’t have enough hot water a lot of the time.

With annual electricity bills of 850 you will probably reduce them by half best case if you went for PV. So keep that in mind when looking for return on investment.

Oh yeah definitely consider heating controls plus zoning. When changing the boiler is a good time to think about it.

Ok, forgive my ignorance. I am just trying to work out what to combine

Either drop the Eddie and install another 1kW of solar which will cost 1.2k minus the 500 for Eddie
Or drop Eddie and install another battery.

I am staying away from the battery as I think I will get better value later on just buying.....

I am wondering, if I stick on another 1kW... I normally leave immersion on 24 x 7, would it not just pull the excess power anyway? if I wasn't pushing it to Zappi?

Is the eddie not used when you dont want to leave the immersion on all the time? Thanks

Conar

Donadea Leo wrote: »

Thanks for helpful replies, had the heat pump on the wish list but plumber talked me out of it, he said current system isn't pressurised so risky to change that using existing pipes etc.
We have underfloor heating downstairs but rads upstairs so not ideal for choosing optimum service. It's very hard to get independent advice on these issues, which is why I m here.

Just for your info, I have a new build (2018) estate house with underfloor heating downstairs and rads upstairs serviced by an Air to Water heat pump.
It's definitely possible, but as for whether your current rads/pipes are suited I wouldn't know.

Conar wrote: »

Just for your info, I have a new build (2018) estate house with underfloor heating downstairs and rads upstairs serviced by an Air to Water heat pump.
It's definitely possible, but as for whether your current rads/pipes are suited I wouldn't know.

You can with the high temp models but best to discuss in more details on the heat pump thread......solar PV is not something I would recommend in the posters situation

unkel

Shefwedfan wrote: »

Ok, forgive my ignorance. I am just trying to work out what to combine

Either drop the Eddie and install another 1kW of solar which will cost 1.2k minus the 500 for Eddie
Or drop Eddie and install another battery.

I am staying away from the battery as I think I will get better value later on just buying.....

I would go the extra panels, no diverter and the smallest battery (just because it is more or less free when you go for an SEAI install with subsidy anyway)

Just heat your water with efficient water / oil and the FIT will be an infinite size battery storing every single kWh of excess production you might have (and paying you for it)

You have the Zappi already. Try make a habit of plugging in your EVs when they are at home during the day. This makes you more money than immersion, FIT, or storing in battery

unkel wrote: »

I would go the extra panels, no diverter and the smallest battery (just because it is more or less free when you go for an SEAI install with subsidy anyway)

Just heat your water with efficient water / oil and the FIT will be an infinite size battery storing every single kWh of excess production you might have (and paying you for it)

You have the Zappi already. Try make a habit of plugging in your EVs when they are at home during the day. This makes you more money than immersion, FIT, or storing in battery

Oh the cars will be plugged in :-) I have 46KWh of battery to fill in them

I am wondering if the immersion is on will it pull off the solar? Or to use the power I need the Eddi?

So example, I am generating 3kW of electricity, base of house is taking 500 so I have 2.5kw left and immersion is going, will it pump out to grid or use for the immersion?

If you have 3kW immersion it will use 2.5 and pull 0.5 from the grid.

There is a thing of getting a 1 or 1.5kW element so immersion does not pull from grid when you leave it on from 10 to 4 or something in the summer.

Donadea Leo

garo wrote: »

Leo there are a few separate issues raised in your post. 1) HW cylinder. Get a well insulated and relatively large cylinder. 300l is my recommendation. Whatever mode of heating water you use having a larger well insulated cylinder will mean more hot water.
2) Solar PV is not the most efficient way of heating water through solar. If all you care about is HW, go for solar thermal tubes. For that you will need a cylinder with at least two heating coils. One connects to the boiler and the second to the solar thermal tubes.
3) However PV is good at generating electricity which can be used for more things than water. Typically a diverter only kicks in once you battery is full and there is excess above your usage. Depending on the size of your install you probably will have excess from March to October. A larger cylinder will mean you can use more of that excess instead of exporting it to the grid for free. In this scenario a single coil cylinder will be sufficient.

There is no grant for solar thermal as far as I know.

If getting a new efficient boiler there is small 100€ grant. If you get heating controls at the same time you get another bigger grant. I got €700 though that went to the installer really. Look at the home automation forum for heating controls advice.

I was cursing the fact that the hot water cylinder went when it did, just before christmas, nowhere open to get a new one and no way a plumber wants to be working at this time.
However it's really interesting how the heating in the house has totally changed, I didn't adjust the heating, left it running about 3.5 hrs per day as it had already been set up and for the first time in three years the heating is hitting the stat temperatures. Now the boiler is still running so something is still amiss, but house is fine and warm, it has made me realise how much energy goes to the hot water, new bigger capacity cylinder is a must, we were probably using a good proportion of our 120 litre tank every day and that coupled with an old cylinder I think may be where our heating was going. Granted the weather is fairly mild at the moment so easier to get temps up.
I do definitely need to look at way to boost hot water, I ll investigate night meter, who knows might even invest in ev if the wife s car fails nct, it brings me back to solar Pv versus thermal, as which might be most beneficial. it ll also be beneficial to zone off water from heating and if cylinder can actually retain temp that will help a lot. I m thinking of holding off on heat pump, have to prioritise insulation, and figuring out if place is draft proofed sufficiently. Thanks again for all the advice.

unkel

Donadea Leo wrote: »

it brings me back to solar Pv versus thermal, as which might be most beneficial.

I have a large high quality solar thermal system (40 tubes Kingspan) and also a large PV array

Solar thermal is only of benefit if you use a lot of water (more than average - we are a family of 5 with 4 females, with my daughters into their teenage years - we use lots and lots of hot water), otherwise you are better off with solar PV, particularly with the very generous current subsidies. Not so much for heating water though. It is very inefficient and not cheap to heat your water with PV

I was similar. I had an uninsulated (well lagging jacket that was falling apart) 120l copper cylinder and Non-zoned heating on a mechanical timer 18 months ago.
I got a proper factory insulated cylinder and heating controls. Went for an Evohome which came to 1600 after grant and credits from Electric Ireland. It is expensive but it is the Rolls Royce of heating controls as there is a sensor and actuator on each road so no need to mess with manifolds or additional piping or zone valves. Now we are never cold and always have hot water and gas bills are down 15% in the winter and 80% in the summer as we were pissing off all that heat from the cylinder.

unkel

Yeah, we were the same. As part of our solar thermal install, we replaced the crap standard 120l with a highly insulated 360l cylinder. We have a 2 bar pump so we can have super strong showers that last a very long time. The one drawback is that even in the best 5* hotels, we don't get as good a shower as at home

For those that have system installed. Do they come with a standard system that allows you to monitor SolarPV generated etc? or do you need to invest in something additional?

wexfordman2

Shefwedfan wrote: »

For those that have system installed. Do they come with a standard system that allows you to monitor SolarPV generated etc? or do you need to invest in something additional?

They come as standard pretty much, seai guidelines insist on it.

It's a very important, if not critical piece if the overall system, and my advice would be to ensure you get a look at the monitoring portal for whatever system you end out going for. Look at a few, compare a few.

spose

We had a 200L cylinder with solar thermal in a well insulated house. When there was just 2 of us we didn’t need to use the boiler from about April to October. Really liked not burning anything for half the year. Now that there’s 5 of us it just couldn’t keep up and we ended up using the boiler for a top up most days. Now we have a 400L cylinder with the thermal and new PV feeding it. I know there’s an argument for whether the price per kw from oil makes the diverter worthwhile but if we can get back to 6 months of free hot water I’ll be pretty happy