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The Dominance of Dublin GAA Mod warning post#1

seligehgit

Discussion of all matters relating to this contentious subject is welcome and the potential implications of same.This thread is solely for this purpose.

There appears to be a perception that the moderators are attempting to shut down discussion of this topic and direct same off to a low traffic stickied thread.Nothing could be further from the truth.Our sole motive was to confine discussion to a single thread and prevent cross thread posting which was adversely affecting the enjoyment of fellow posters.

Can we please keep posts civil and constructive in nature.

The Changes in the GAA-super thread is now for discussion of all other suggested reforms not relating to Dublin GAA.

Extra Mod Warning:
Right, a separate warning to both sides in this debate:
Firstly, any more mentioning of "financial doping" or any intimation that rules have been broken by Dublin or that Dublin have cheated are banned from now on. You can debate the issue of the funding that Dublin have received without resorting to that. There is zero evidence of it and posting about it will be considered trolling from here on in.

Secondly, this topic is, like it or not, a big talking point in gaelic football at the moment. You are more than welcome to argue your point, but posting in this thread to simply mock those on the other side or complaining about the topic is known as thread spoiling and is specifically banned in the charter (see point 8 here). No one is forcing you to click on this thread and no one is forcing you to post in it. If you don't like the topic, then don't post. It's as simple as that.

This thread is here so that all the discussion is in one place and it won't filter into other threads. This makes it easier to ignore for posters who don't really want to be involved in it. As a result, we haven't really been moderating it as severely as other threads. However, a number of posts recently from both sides are sailing too close to the wind and getting borderline personal. So please take a minute before you hit submit to ensure that your post won't fall foul of the rules. We'll have no hesitation in issuing cards and/or threadbans to posters who fail to heed this warning.

Please report any posts that you feel break the rules.

Any questions, please feel free to PM the mods.

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beggars_bush

STB. wrote: »

Yeah, none of this going to happen.

Stop whinging about how good Dublin are and look at improving your own County teams.

Will require a lot of training, no drinking and total dedication.

Honestly there is one poor lad here who must be responsible for a third of all the posts on this thread. Professional help may not be of any use at this stage.

What funding will they get to change their coaching and development systems?
Dublin wouldn't have put in place their huge coaching structure without financial backing from the GAA

PerryB78

beggars_bush wrote: »

Well where does the money come from Dublins coaching setup?
The other counties via central council

Absolute rubbish, most money generated for the GAA is by Dublin, there is the bigger population and hence we get the most funding. Tell me why all the leinster counties bar Laois voted to keep Dublin playing in croke park? Dublin get the crowds and the GAA get more money as a result

Dyr

RedDevil55 wrote: »

The funding is grossly disproportionate. The GAA have funded over 50 development officers in Dublin for the last 12 years. Kerry, Mayo, Donegal and Tyrone have had 2 each over that time. I don't believe that's right but apparently others disagree.

I know one of those games promotion officers (correct term there): he only coaches hurling and half his salary is paid for by the club, like the majority of GPOs in Dublin. But do carry on, you were saying something about how he's helping Dublin win Sam Maguire.

jmayo

tritium wrote: »

It’s not a bad idea but I’d probably split things a bit more. Kerry north and Kerry south, mayo north and mayo south. Kerry and mayo fans would of course love it since their teams would have shorter commutes to training and by concentrating their resources they’ll both have a better chance...

Yeah because the trip from Dublin to Ballina is so much shorter than that to Castlebar. :rolleyes:
A lot of the Mayo panel live outside the county so dividing it would have fook all difference on distance to training.

But I am guessing you know that anyway.

The intercounty game is facing huge issues.
Even if you take out the huge fooking elephant in the room that is Dublin football, then there are other issues where now it costs so much in money and time to run a somewhat competitive intercounty team.

Look how many staff are now tied to intercounty teams.
Gone are the days of a doctor and a physio for match days.
Now you have strength and fitness, physios, dieticians and then you have the others like performance analysis, statistician, media manager, yoga trainers, camerman, goalie coach, forwards coach, backs coach, administrators.

The All Ireland winning teams of Dublin and Tipperary I think had 23 member backroom teams.

Now granted they are not all paid, but by damn they will all be on varying degrees of expenses.

And then most importantly you have the time and effort that players now need to put in to compete at highest level.

It is much easier for Dublin as they almost all to a man live and work in Dublin.
And they are winning and they get the rewards that come with that.

And one can understand how the likes of Kerry, Mayo and a couple of other teams can entice players to put in the efforts as they win provincials and get big days in Croker.

But why the feck would someone in Wicklow, Carlow, Leitrim, Waterford, Fermanagh, Antrim, etc bother putting their lives on hold for the odd win in any given year.
And this is very noticable how players can't be bothered waiting for backdoor matches.

Top GAA players are now basically semi pros, without the paypacket.

RedDevil55

Bambi wrote: »

I know one of those games promotion officers (correct term there): he only coaches hurling and half his salary is paid for by the club, like the majority of GPOs in Dublin. But do carry on, you were saying something about how he's helping Dublin win Sam Maguire.

There are hurling only GPOs in most, if not all counties. There's certainly one in Mayo anyway. I know the Dublin clubs pay some of the salaries but I'm just going on how the central GAA funds are divided up. Dublin receive enough for over 50 full-time officers compared to 2 in most other division 1 counties. As I said, grossly disproportionate.

RedDevil55

PerryB78 wrote: »

Absolute rubbish, most money generated for the GAA is by Dublin, there is the bigger population and hence we get the most funding. Tell me why all the leinster counties bar Laois voted to keep Dublin playing in croke park? Dublin get the crowds and the GAA get more money as a result

Do you have stats on how much money Dublin generates relative to other counties? There are other counties that are a huge cash cow for the GAA yet receive pittance in comparison.

Dyr

RedDevil55 wrote: »

I know the Dublin clubs pay some of the salaries but I'm just going on how the central GAA funds are divided up. Dublin receive enough for over 50 full-time officers compared to 2 in most other division 1 counties. As I said, grossly disproportionate.

Disporpotionate to what? County population? Dublin gets less per head of population than many other counties who still can't beat them (*cough* Kerry *cough* *cough* Mayo *cough* Kerry *cough*)

I seem to remember the GAA (which includes Dublin) had to bail Mayo out of a bank loan to the tune of 5 million because they pissed it up against the wall on Mchale Park.

How many GDOs would Mayo get for 5 million? Apparently, it's Dublins fault that Mayo's priorities were elsewhere and they lacked fiscal competence

It's also seems to be Dublin and the GAAs fault that the arse has fallen out of large parts of Rural Ireland. Have a word with your local TD about something other than sorting out planning pemissions and grants lads. It's not something the GAA are going to fix

The high horse brigade

Bambi wrote: »

I seem to remember the GAA (which includes Dublin) had to bail Mayo out of a bank loan to the tune of 5 million because they pissed it up against the wall on Mchale Park.

Holy sh1t, typical blinkered Dubs attitude. A county developing their county ground is pissing their money away. Meanwhile Dublin don't have to develop Parnell park because they have the use of the national stadium.

RedDevil55

Bambi wrote: »

Disporpotionate to what? County population? Dublin gets less per head of population than many other counties who still can't beat them (*cough* Kerry *cough* *cough* Mayo *cough* Kerry *cough*)

I seem to remember the GAA (which includes Dublin) had to bail Mayo out of a bank loan to the tune of 5 million because they pissed it up against the wall on Mchale Park.

How many GDOs would Mayo get for 5 million? Apparently, it's Dublins fault that Mayo's priorities were elsewhere and they lacked fiscal competence

Dublin get approx 25 times the funding that Kerry and Mayo get, yet there population is only about 10 times bigger. Disproportionate.

There was no bailout on MacHale Park. The term of the loan was extended but every cent is being paid back in full with interest. About €32k per month for the next 25 years. Completely different to the GD funding which will never be paid back.

Dyr

The high horse brigade wrote: »

Holy sh1t, typical blinkered Dubs attitude. A county developing their county ground is pissing their money away. Meanwhile Dublin don't have to develop Parnell park because they have the use of the national stadium.

Guts of 20 million on a fiasco that would have bankrupted the county had the GAA not bailed them out for a stadium that still cant fit more that 30 thousand. Holy Sh*t indeed. Same with that Monument to Frank Murphys ego below in the Peoples Republic.

GAA having to come in like the IMF to straighten the ship and because yis have county boards that would'nt be let run a school tuck shop carrying on like tin pot dictatorships and you're bitching because Dublin spends its (immaculately managed) money on GDO's? Get this bus lads.

Higgins5473

The high horse brigade wrote: »

Holy sh1t, typical blinkered Dubs attitude. A county developing their county ground is pissing their money away. Meanwhile Dublin don't have to develop Parnell park because they have the use of the national stadium.

Generally when you take out a loan for anything, it's with a contractual agreement with an element of trust that you will be able to service the loan and not need a bail out. They were not able to meet the repayments, so "pissing it away" or a totally mismanaged f*ck up is perfectly accurate way to describe it. Mayo GAA County Board have some exceptional form in mismanaged f*ck ups.

seligehgit

Mod Warning

Any further posts attacking a fellow poster will result in sanction.

Any further posts deviating off the topic at hand into the relative worth that the urban/rural economies bring to the country's prosperity will be treated in a similar fashion.

PerryB78

RedDevil55 wrote: »

Do you have stats on how much money Dublin generates relative to other counties? There are other counties that are a huge cash cow for the GAA yet receive pittance in comparison.

I don't think there's any doubt that Dublin generate the most revenue per county, cant get the actual figures as HQ closed for the crimbo ðŸ˜‰

RedDevil55

PerryB78 wrote: »

I don't think there's any doubt that Dublin generate the most revenue per county, cant get the actual figures as HQ closed for the crimbo ðŸ˜‰

Don't bother ringing up Croke Park.

The funding is not divided up based on what revenue each county generates for the GAA. Otherwise Mayo, Kerry and other division 1 counties would be getting close to Dublin's amount. That is not the case.

PerryB78

RedDevil55 wrote: »

Don't bother ringing up Croke Park.

The funding is not divided up based on what revenue each county generates for the GAA. Otherwise Mayo, Kerry and other division 1 counties would be getting close to Dublin's amount. That is not the case.

Dont worry I was only joking about ringing them, knowing them it would probably be a premium rate number anyway ðŸ˜‚ðŸ˜‚

beggars_bush

Bonniedog wrote: »

Dublin have been beaten once in 30 away games in Leinster since 1973.

The last proper away game that they played was in 2006 v longford
Every other game has been at a neutral venue or at home in Croke Park

Bonniedog

Dublin played over 30 games over the period I referred to. You are talking about four games since 2006?

Even when Dublin were bad for about 7 years from 1967 to 1973, getting beaten by Westmeath was a massive shock and made the front page of the newspapers.

Some of you would do well to learn some history.

GreenandRed

beggars_bush wrote: »

The last proper away game that they played was in 2006 v longford
Every other game has been at a neutral venue or at home in Croke Park

From 1996 to 2011 playing in Croke Park seemed like a noose around their necks. The pressure of the home venue killed them, or so it seemed, but in fact it was poor management. In 2006 they should have had us out the gate and in Heuston Station with 20 minutes left. They had some spectacular collapses there at the time.

Then Gilroy came and changed their mentality. While Kerry and Donegal since Gilroy also showed All Irelands can be won. The other thing is, if you're an intercounty team that can't get fired up and motivated to try and beat Dublin in Croke Park then I think that intercounty football isn't your thing. Fk the begrudgers, Dublin have always had advantages. In 2020 let's start finding ways of beating them and stop making excuses. The're very good but no team is unbeatable.

kilns

People are never going agree on here, this is an internet forum after all and people can say things without backing them up.

I understands some posters grumblings, nobody likes anyone who wins all the time except if its your team however splitting Dublin or totally cutting their funding and giving it to counties who have proven they couldnt run a sale out of their own car boot is not a solution. A whole overhaul is required, splitting Dublin and cutting their funding will not bring counties like Longford, Offaly, Sligo etc any closer to winning an All Ireland. We need to be looking at solutions how that can be brought about and see how people from counties like this can look at each season and say we have a chance.

Your thoughts on this wider problem are most welcome

salmocab

kilns wrote: »

People are never going agree on here, this is an internet forum after all and people can say things without backing them up.

I understands some posters grumblings, nobody likes anyone who wins all the time except if its your team however splitting Dublin or totally cutting their funding and giving it to counties who have proven they couldnt run a sale out of their own car boot is not a solution. A whole overhaul is required, splitting Dublin and cutting their funding will not bring counties like Longford, Offaly, Sligo etc any closer to winning an All Ireland. We need to be looking at solutions how that can be brought about and see how people from counties like this can look at each season and say we have a chance.

Your thoughts on this wider problem are most welcome

There hasn’t been a new point made here in a very long time. What I will say is I doubt supporters of any other sport would be looking for ways to make the best weaker instead of the rest better.

The_Honeybadger

salmocab wrote: »

There hasn’t been a new point made here in a very long time. What I will say is I doubt supporters of any other sport would be looking for ways to make the best weaker instead of the rest better.

To be honest I think there are legitimate points on both sides. It’s too early to say right now, but there is a chance that Dublin might continue to dominate perpetually, with just sporadic pockets of success for a handful of others. If that turns out to be the case then the sport will be in real trouble.

And BTW there are umpteen examples of other sports putting things in place to keep the best teams in check. Many professional sports have draft systems and salary caps for example. The biggest teams in the biggest markets would blow everyone away if they didn’t.

SilverFox2

salmocab wrote: »

There hasn’t been a new point made here in a very long time. What I will say is I doubt supporters of any other sport would be looking for ways to make the best weaker instead of the rest better.

Maybe some key Dublin players should join Mayo to level the playing field in the GAA?

SilverFox2

SilverFox2 wrote: »

Maybe Diarmuid C should join Mayo to level the playing field in the GAA?

In fact maybe the GAA should become more like American Football, let the best underage from Dublin get 1st preference from the weaker counties to have them join that county.
We could see a levelling of the playing field within a few years

kilns

The_Honeybadger wrote: »

To be honest I think there are legitimate points on both sides. It’s too early to say right now, but there is a chance that Dublin might continue to dominate perpetually, with just sporadic pockets of success for a handful of others. If that turns out to be the case then the sport will be in real trouble.

And BTW there are umpteen examples of other sports putting things in place to keep the best teams in check. Many professional sports have draft systems and salary caps for example. The biggest teams in the biggest markets would blow everyone away if they didn’t.

Yes the county system is weighted to those counties with population and geographical advantages, with the current county system in place the counties who are currently strong will stay strong and those who are weak will stay weak. If Dublin were to be split, the only teams it would benefit are those who are already annual contenders. It would do nothing for the weaker counties and so the whole representation system needs to be address not just Dublin.

tritium

SilverFox2 wrote: »

In fact maybe the GAA should become more like American Football, let the best underage from Dublin get 1st preference from the weaker counties to have them join that county.
We could see a levelling of the playing field within a few years

The problem with a draft system is you’d have to apply it across the board, and it would quickly remove the county element. Would David Clifford be happy to be drafted for Carlow? Ciaran Kilkenny for Roscommon? It would level things though. Perhaps it could be applied beyond say the core 20 or 25 players in a county so that talented players not making inter county squads could get a look in. Quite a few talented club players from mayo dublin or Kerry might relish a shot at inter county

SilverFox2

Splitting Dublin in 2 would be great for the GAA.

salmocab

tritium wrote: »

The problem with a draft system is you’d have to apply it across the board, and it would quickly remove the county element. Would David Clifford be happy to be drafted for Carlow? Ciaran Kilkenny for Roscommon? It would level things though. Perhaps it could be applied beyond say the core 20 or 25 players in a county so that talented players not making inter county squads could get a look in. Quite a few talented club players from mayo dublin or Kerry might relish a shot at inter county

No the problem with a draft is it has to be for professionals. Drafts don’t weaken the best teams they make everyone better but can only be used by certain sports.

salmocab

SilverFox2 wrote: »

Splitting Dublin in 2 would be great for the GAA. Maybe the extra money could help bail out the FAI

What extra money? Splitting Dublin would mean more money going out and less coming in.

SilverFox2

salmocab wrote: »

What extra money? Splitting Dublin would mean more money going out and less coming in.

Dublin could fill Croker twice over.
having 2 teams would have more going to games and the GAA would have extra income from
gate receipts and 2 sponsorships deals for more money possibly.

Dyr

GreenandRed wrote: »

Then Gilroy came and changed their mentality. While Kerry and Donegal since Gilroy also showed All Irelands can be won. The other thing is, if you're an intercounty team that can't get fired up and motivated to try and beat Dublin in Croke Park then I think that intercounty football isn't your thing. Fk the begrudgers, Dublin have always had advantages. In 2020 let's start finding ways of beating them and stop making excuses. The're very good but no team is unbeatable.

Most of the lads on here would'nt be paying attention to Dublins signs of vulnerability last year, with the likes of Cork giving them a scare. Just like Kilkenny before them, its experience and confidence that's seeing them through in those games but that won't last.