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Donald Trump Presidency discussion Thread VI

Quin_Dub

The continuing discussion of the Donald Trump Presidency.

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Gwen Cooper

osarusan wrote: »

They have to do it at some stage surely. Otherwise what was the whole point of it.

And if they don't, the Republicans will goad them into it by saying they are scared to do it and never had any evidence of guilt and it was all just cheap politicking.

Would be nice if they said that they'll only send it to Senate once Senate starts dealing with all those bipartisan bills the Congress sent to them.

https://twitter.com/SoloAmerican/status/1207679827647614977

aloyisious

Nancy is live on CNN at a general press conference talking about the bipartisan bills congress has sent to Mitch [275] covering fire-arms and medicare. I get the impression the bills are sitting on his desk. It was a very short show. Nancy said congress would wait to see what the senate would tell it about the management of the impeachment trial before it made any decision on sending the papers to the senate. On Mitch, she said she had expected a rogue president, didn't expect a rogue leader in the senate as well. Re the funeral of the late congressman, she commented that Don thought what he said about it was humour, that it wasn't, it was sad.

Quin_Dub

Gwen Cooper wrote: »

Would be nice if they said that they'll only send it to Senate once Senate starts dealing with all those bipartisan bills the Congress sent to them.

https://twitter.com/SoloAmerican/status/1207679827647614977

Well - He is doing work, just not any legislative work.

Yesterday , while the house was having the impeachment vote , McConnell got another dozen or so judges approved in the Senate.

That is the only thing he cares about - The GOP are playing the long game , McConnell held up and blocked as many judge slots as he possibly could during the Obama years and now they are filling them at a rate of knots with hard core right wingers in their 40's/early 50's meaning they will likely have control over a very large swathe of the judiciary for decades to come.

Who cares who's in the White-house or who controls the house/senate when you can own the judiciary who will over-turn every law you don't like?

Manic Moran

seamus wrote: »

If the Dems had control over the house and senate, it would be largely inconsequential who was in the WH. Nevertheless, Pence might be a horror but he appears at least to be mentally stable.

I personally very much suspect that's what many voters were going for in 2016. After all, we were all being told that Hilary was going to win, so they voted for the lesser of two Presidential evils, and then voted Republicans in Congress to make sure she couldn't do too much damage. When Trump won to general surprise, this backfired. This effect could very much happen again in 2020.

Nancy is live on CNN at a general press conference talking about the bipartisan bills congress has sent to Mitch [275] covering fire-arms and medicare.

It says "Bipartisan" in the title of the firearms act. Actual score was 240-190. 8 Republicans voted for, 2 Democrats against. Not very bipartisan, no matter what you put in the title (And is basically the same as the Obama-era act, with the same flaws, and likely thus the same chance of success. I also suspect a lot of senators are looking at Virginia right now). The Medicare act doesn't say Bipartisan in the title, and was passed 230-192. Party line, barring two Republicans who voted for.

With respect to the question on the economy in the swing states.
https://fortune.com/2019/11/25/trump-swing-states-economy-problems/

GDP growth of those states has been slowing, in most (not all) cases, more than the national average.

On the other hand if you look at what the voters themselves see: Unemployment continues to fall. Wisconsin dropped from 4.1% to 3.3%. Pennsylvania was at 5.8%, now down to 4.2%. Ohio, down 4.9% to 4.2%. Maine, 4.0 to a very good 2.8. All states dropped, the smallest improvement was New Hampshire with its 4 EC votes, but since it started at 2.8 and dropped to 2.6, unemployment isn't a reason to vote against Trump.

Further, personal income in those States has increased. The growth rate of personal income in those states was 1.0 to 1.2% in October 2016. The lowest right now is NH, 4.4%. Arizona is 6.3%. One may well argue whether it is State or Federal policy which has resulted in these figures, but if the question is "Does the voter going to the polls feel better about himself economically", current figures say "yes".

It got drowned out in the impeachment hearings, but the government was about to run out of money this week (Again, we've been going on monthly CRs since october). A budget was finally passed. It includes $1.4bn of the requested $8bn for the border wall.

Midlife

Interesting. Send it to the senate when dems take it over if Don wins the election.

Pretty much out of the mitch playbook in terms of delaying SC justices.

eire4

Quin_Dub wrote: »

Well - He is doing work, just not any legislative work.

Yesterday , while the house was having the impeachment vote , McConnell got another dozen or so judges approved in the Senate.

That is the only thing he cares about - The GOP are playing the long game , McConnell held up and blocked as many judge slots as he possibly could during the Obama years and now they are filling them at a rate of knots with hard core right wingers in their 40's/early 50's meaning they will likely have control over a very large swathe of the judiciary for decades to come.

Who cares who's in the White-house or who controls the house/senate when you can own the judiciary who will over-turn every law you don't like?

As cynical as that is your absolutely correct that is exactly what is going on here.

Headshot

Democratic debate on tonight at 1am our time, should be a fascinating watch

26000 Elephants

osarusan wrote: »

They have to do it at some stage surely. Otherwise what was the whole point of it.

And if they don't, the Republicans will goad them into it by saying they are scared to do it and never had any evidence of guilt and it was all just cheap politicking.

EDIT: Unless it's a ploy to extract concessions from the Republicans about the trial conditions.

Trump has played for time with the courts all the way to the SC. The SC blatantly politicised the hearings with the March -June timeframes. McConnell has probably handed the Democrats the greatest 'get out of jail' card with respect to trying to coordinate the impeachment hearings and the release of Trumps financial records.

Its Pelosi's turn now to play for time. If it's good enough for POTUS, it will work for them.

All that is certain is that Trump is on the final furlong, and he knows it.

peddlelies

26000 Elephants wrote: »

All that is certain is that Trump is on the final furlong, and he knows it.

To what exactly? We already know the outcome.

tonycascarino

26000 Elephants wrote: »

All that is certain is that Trump is on the final furlong, and he knows it.

Trump will sail through this sideshow and will get re-elected in 2020.

Gbear

tonycascarino wrote: »

Trump will sail through this sideshow and will get re-elected in 2020.

I keep seeing people parrotting this guff but I've yet to see any credible argument why it might be the case, and even less to suggest that one could make such a prediction with confidence.

tonycascarino

Gbear wrote: »

I keep seeing people parrotting this guff but I've yet to see any credible argument why it might be the case, and even less to suggest that one could make such a prediction with confidence.

Remainers in the Brexit scenario remind me of the Democrats at the moment. They convinced themselves that everyone thought like they did, refused to realise that many people don't agree with them and then got an awful kick in the liathroidí in the ballot box. I personally don't see any Democrat beating Trump no matter what is thrown at him.

listermint

tonycascarino wrote: »

Remainers in the Brexit scenario remind me of the Democrats at the moment. They convinced themselves that everyone thought like they did, refused to realise that many people don't agree with them and then got an awful kick in the liathroidí in the ballot box. I personally don't see any Democrat beating Trump no matter what is thrown at him.

You've clearly not red a drop on brexit because that election was lost because of corbyn not due to brexit. Id suggest you read the stats but I'm in no doubt you won't.

Itssoeasy

Have any GOP members had the decency to pull trump up on his awful comments about the late Michigan member of congress who died last year ? He really is a horrible human being. Btw he didn't give that congressman anything just like he didn't give John McCain anything he didn't deserve.

everlast75

https://twitter.com/billmckibben/status/1207788960560406528?s=19

Another possible chink in the armour...

Stacksofwacks

House dems have made a pigs ear of this. They had the power to call all relevant witnesses and evidence but chose not to instead of a quick impeachment, thinking they had an open and shut case. A GOP controlled senate will never allow these witnesses to be called.

Itssoeasy

everlast75 wrote: »

https://twitter.com/billmckibben/status/1207788960560406528?s=19

Another possible chink in the armour...

I doubt the comparisons by the GOP of trumps impeachment to that of the crucifixion of Jesus went done that well.

everlast75

Stacksofwacks wrote: »

House dems have made a pigs ear of this. They had the power to call all relevant witnesses and evidence but chose not to instead of a quick impeachment, thinking they had an open and shut case. A GOP controlled senate will never allow these witnesses to be called.

And here's me thinking that they DID call witnesses and Trump blocked them...

Stacksofwacks

everlast75 wrote: »

And here's me thinking that they DID call witnesses and Trump blocked them...

They could have got them through the courts but that would have taken months and months, better have all the information out there than a half baked case..

26000 Elephants

peddlelies wrote: »

To what exactly? We already know the outcome.

Trump will die in prison. That will be the outcome.

[Deleted User]

Democratic debate on now (Youtube PBS). Sanders calling Trump out on his failed policies. Biden gave a pissant response.

Quin_Dub

Stacksofwacks wrote: »

They could have got them through the courts but that would have taken months and months, better have all the information out there than a half baked case..

Sadly ,they didn't have the time to wait for the courts.

Look at the situation with Don McGahn.

How long have they been waiting for a ruling there?

Stacksofwacks

[QUOTE=Quin_Dub;112064077]Sadly ,they didn't have the time to wait for the courts.

Look at the situation with Don McGahn.

How long have they been waiting for a ruling there?[/QUOTE]

Big deal. They have now impeached a president without getting all the relevant facts/witnesses. Their political timeline shouldn't come into it. Nixon was investigated for 14 months before they brought him down.

StringerBell

They have now impeached a president with two articles that have him dead to rights. Forgetting all the other articles the could have brought. Half baked indeed. Political timeline my hole, it's much more important than a bloody political timeline.

Regardless

The case is air tight. That the senate will not do its job is nothing to do with house democrats. This republican party is very far removed from that of the 1970s. Cowards, self serving cowards is all they are and a lot of them have shown themselves to be even worse than that at this point. There will be no leaders of the party going to tell the president he has to go no matter what comes out. You simply cannot let a criminal continue his crimes because he is making it difficult for you.

moon2

Stacksofwacks wrote: »

Big deal. They have now impeached a president without getting all the relevant facts/witnesses. Their political timeline shouldn't come into it. Nixon was investigated for 14 months before they brought him down.

Once you have sufficient evidence you can bring a case. While additional corroboration can be beneficial, it's not a requirement to speak to literally every single person who may have knowledge. They felt they had all the relevant facts, and sufficient verification.

[Deleted User]

Why the **** is Klobuchar getting so much airtime?

Carcharodon

I honestly think the Democrats have shot themselves in the foot here, there is no chance he gets impeached, all they have done is riled up his base more and deepened the divide here, they have essentially made his path to a second term a lot easier.
Everyone knows Trump is a piece of crap and Democrats have been waiting anxiously for something to try and impeach him, he has probably broken many laws and he clearly only has self interests at heart but where was the impeachment of Bush and Cheney, a country was bombed to pieces and then rebuilt by the same people, Cheney was so corrupt it fathoms belief

Stacksofwacks

moon2 wrote: »

Once you have sufficient evidence you can bring a case. While additional corroboration can be beneficial, it's not a requirement to speak to literally every single person who may have knowledge. They felt they had all the relevant facts, and sufficient verification.

Problem is what Trump did even a crime? His office has huge powers to conduct foreign policy as he sees fit if the opposition don't like something he says or does then that's fine they can hammer him politically but impeachment is tricky as abuse of power is vague and can mean a lot of things to different people. Accountability should really come from within his own party if they weren't so subservient they would kick up a stink and force him to step down for his bad behaviour. Leaving the democrats to try and sort the mess out only leaves them being painted as partisan hacks so that isn't getting anywhere either. A terrible situation really.

duploelabs

Carcharodon wrote: »

I honestly think the Democrats have shot themselves in the foot here, there is no chance he gets impeached, all they have done is riled up his base more and deepened the divide here, they have essentially made his path to a second term a lot easier.
Everyone knows Trump is a piece of crap and Democrats have been waiting anxiously for something to try and impeach him, he has probably broken many laws and he clearly only has self interests at heart but where was the impeachment of Bush and Cheney, a country was bombed to pieces and then rebuilt by the same people, Cheney was so corrupt it fathoms belief

Perhaps you need to brush up on your procedures. Trump is already impeached, that's what the vote was on Wednesday. It now moves forward to the senate for a trial to remove him or not

listermint

Carcharodon wrote: »

I honestly think the Democrats have shot themselves in the foot here, there is no chance he gets impeached, all they have done is riled up his base more and deepened the divide here, they have essentially made his path to a second term a lot easier.
Everyone knows Trump is a piece of crap and Democrats have been waiting anxiously for something to try and impeach him, he has probably broken many laws and he clearly only has self interests at heart but where was the impeachment of Bush and Cheney, a country was bombed to pieces and then rebuilt by the same people, Cheney was so corrupt it fathoms belief

The base is actually quite small. The democrats are not targeting his base with any of this. They are self serving loons.

They are targeting the middle ground voter who got him over the line last time. Bearing on mind that's all they did he doesn't have a masse core voter so you are highly mistaken on that one . Something most trump backers do.