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ESB eCars pricing introduction

ELM327

System Upgrade

Dear EV Drivers,

To enable us to provide you with some enhanced functionality and a new app, we will be performing a system upgrade this coming Wednesday morning, October 2nd,

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Silent Running

KCross wrote: »

How do you set the notification for a charge point? I've clicked on one that is occupied but I dont see an option to say "tell me when that becomes available"?

There's a little bell symbol on the top blue bit. Click it and it will offer you a confirm or cancel option. You need to be looking at the charger in question.

There doesn't seem to be a notification for a chargepoint becoming busy.

KCross

Silent Running wrote: »

There's a little bell symbol on the top blue bit. Click it and it will offer you a confirm or cancel option. You need to be looking at the charger in question.

Got it, thanks.

Seems to only appear if all ports are being used which means that if its a triple head with CCS being used but AC is still available you dont get the bell icon! :mad:

For the 22kW charge points the bell only appears when both ports are in use also, which makes sense I guess for them.

Black_Knight

Interesting to see, of the 8 fast chargers in NI, 5 are occupied. Their still free at the mo right?

Also, spotted stillorgan park and ride has both CCS and chademo as in use. Leaf/Outlander knocking a CCS car off charging maybe?

BoatMad

unkel wrote: »

I agree the natural fast charging time for a lot of owners of newish EVs is around an hour because either their car is slow or the slow ESB charger limit of just 50kW

Charging this long is unnecessary though to reach their destination or the next fast charger on their route. Thus they are unnecessarily holding up the charger for the next user. They should be disincentivised to use more than they need. I agree with ELM327 here, fairly hefty overstay charges should begin at about 30-45 minutes.

I want to relay my conundrum

I have a 30 kWh leaf with two bars goneb( 178,000km)

Yesterday in the cold I had to get from bray at 30 % to athlone

I was informed that kilbeggan “ out of contact “. Hence I had to charge at bray ( I started at 30%) and Enfield.

But 45 minutes at bray got just 13.4 kWh into the car.

At Enfield because kilbeggan was out , I needed 93/95% charge to reach athlone with about 25 kmph left

That took 54 minutes resulting in an overcharge yet I had no choice

This isn’t right.

The net result is the trip was a good bit more expensive then in a small diesel

Mickeroo

Black_Knight wrote: »

Interesting to see, of the 8 fast chargers in NI, 5 are occupied. Their still free at the mo right?

Also, spotted stillorgan park and ride has both CCS and chademo as in use. Leaf/Outlander knocking a CCS car off charging maybe?

I'm pretty sure it always shows both chademo and CCS in use when either are being used because you can only use one at a time.

McGiver

ELM327 wrote:

Ecars new app finally available on IOS Looks great, flashy, seems like the website was actually designed to be an app. I like the UX.

It's a clone of their UK app. And All that based on Driivz framework. It would have been really bad if they were screwed this up...

KCross

BoatMad wrote: »

I have a 30 kWh leaf with two bars gone( 178,000km)

You must be ready for an upgrade at this stage. Have you got one eye on anything yet?

BoatMad wrote: »

I was informed that kilbeggan “ out of contact “. Hence I had to charge at bray ( I started at 30%) and Enfield.

But 45 minutes at bray got just 13.4 kWh into the car.

Notwithstanding you started at 30%, but why did you only get 13.4kWh in 45mins. Thats really low considering the L30 has a much better charge curve than the L24. That figure doesnt seem right somehow.

[Deleted User]

BoatMad wrote: »

I want to relay my conundrum

I have a 30 kWh leaf with two bars goneb( 178,000km)

Yesterday in the cold I had to get from bray at 30 % to athlone

I was informed that kilbeggan “ out of contact “. Hence I had to charge at bray ( I started at 30%) and Enfield.

But 45 minutes at bray got just 13.4 kWh into the car.

At Enfield because kilbeggan was out , I needed 93/95% charge to reach athlone with about 25 kmph left

That took 54 minutes resulting in an overcharge yet I had no choice

This isn’t right.

The net result is the trip was a good bit more expensive then in a small diesel

Well I'll be God Damned, if it isn't BoatMad himself, where the hell have you been ?

Not saying I missed you or anything lol. but it must be a year or more since you graced us with your presence ?

Dardania

BoatMad wrote: »

I want to relay my conundrum

I have a 30 kWh leaf with two bars goneb( 178,000km)

Yesterday in the cold I had to get from bray at 30 % to athlone

I was informed that kilbeggan “ out of contact “. Hence I had to charge at bray ( I started at 30%) and Enfield.

But 45 minutes at bray got just 13.4 kWh into the car.

At Enfield because kilbeggan was out , I needed 93/95% charge to reach athlone with about 25 kmph left

That took 54 minutes resulting in an overcharge yet I had no choice

This isn’t right.

The net result is the trip was a good bit more expensive then in a small diesel

That is frustrating as hell but for the costs topic, you're still saving a lot of money for every other day you can drive using home charging

Silent Running

BoatMad wrote: »

I want to relay my conundrum

I have a 30 kWh leaf with two bars goneb( 178,000km)

Yesterday in the cold I had to get from bray at 30 % to athlone

I was informed that kilbeggan “ out of contact “. Hence I had to charge at bray ( I started at 30%) and Enfield.

But 45 minutes at bray got just 13.4 kWh into the car.

At Enfield because kilbeggan was out , I needed 93/95% charge to reach athlone with about 25 kmph left

That took 54 minutes resulting in an overcharge yet I had no choice

This isn’t right.

The net result is the trip was a good bit more expensive then in a small diesel

This is one issue I find very frustrating with Ecars. When their chargers go out of contact they become unusable, even though the charger itself might be able to deliver a charge.

In the UK, when a charger goes out of contact it opens up to allow free charging AKA freevend. I think this is fair, as it's up to the provider to make sure their chargers are in contact. The end user shouldn't suffer because the charger can't 'phone home'.

It looks like Ecars aren't particularly concerned about the end user. One charger in Wexford town has been 'out of contact' for weeks now. The charger says it's ready for use but the card can't be read so it won't allow access to the sockets. Since the new app has been launched, the charger is now marked as 'unavailable'.

ELM327

Mickeroo wrote: »

I'm pretty sure it always shows both chademo and CCS in use when either are being used because you can only use one at a time.

It does, but only the actual one in use has a start time
I think this is a cache/refresh issue. If the user closed and opened the window it may show correct details

BoatMad wrote: »

I want to relay my conundrum

I have a 30 kWh leaf with two bars goneb( 178,000km)

Yesterday in the cold I had to get from bray at 30 % to athlone

I was informed that kilbeggan “ out of contact “. Hence I had to charge at bray ( I started at 30%) and Enfield.

But 45 minutes at bray got just 13.4 kWh into the car.

At Enfield because kilbeggan was out , I needed 93/95% charge to reach athlone with about 25 kmph left

That took 54 minutes resulting in an overcharge yet I had no choice

This isn’t right.

The net result is the trip was a good bit more expensive then in a small diesel

Unfortunately corner cases like this must not be allowed to remove the overstay fee, which is one of the best things about the charging for charging regime.

13.4kWh in 45 minutes is ~20kW average speed. The leaf 30 can charge over double that, something doesnt add up there.

Also, it's only 80km to athlone from enfield, so you didnt need 95%. I could have done that trip with 85% in my L24.

I know you are a great poster in these parts Boatmad, but if this post was by a new poster I'd suspect trolling. The figures and locations dont add up and it sounds to me, no offense, like sour grapes about paying for charging.

FWIW the overstay fee is something I have to watch for too. My car (Model S 90D) would take 1.5 hours to charge to 90% on chademo/ccs at ecars. So I must either pay the fiver or make two stops (or do what I usually do, and use Ionity/Tesla/Easygo)

ELM327

Silent Running wrote: »

This is one issue I find very frustrating with Ecars. When their chargers go out of contact they become unusable, even though the charger itself might be able to deliver a charge.

In the UK, when a charger goes out of contact it opens up to allow free charging AKA freevend. I think this is fair, as it's up to the provider to make sure their chargers are in contact. The end user shouldn't suffer because the charger can't 'phone home'.

It looks like Ecars aren't particularly concerned about the end user. One charger in Wexford town has been 'out of contact' for weeks now. The charger says it's ready for use but the card can't be read so it won't allow access to the sockets. Since the new app has been launched, the charger is now marked as 'unavailable'.

AFAIK other providers (easygo, Ionity, even Tesla) don't allow charging without the unit verifying who you are.

Silent Running

ELM327 wrote: »

AFAIK other providers (easygo, Ionity, even Tesla) don't allow charging without the unit verifying who you are.

The problem is that it's hard to verify as their chargers usually don't fall over as frequently as Ecars chargers do. In fairness, a lot of Ecars chargers are long in the tooth at this stage, where the competition have newer units.

September1

BoatMad wrote: »

I want to relay my conundrum

I have a 30 kWh leaf with two bars goneb( 178,000km)

Yesterday in the cold I had to get from bray at 30 % to athlone

I was informed that kilbeggan “ out of contact “. Hence I had to charge at bray ( I started at 30%) and Enfield.

But 45 minutes at bray got just 13.4 kWh into the car.

At Enfield because kilbeggan was out , I needed 93/95% charge to reach athlone with about 25 kmph left

That took 54 minutes resulting in an overcharge yet I had no choice

This isn’t right.

The net result is the trip was a good bit more expensive then in a small diesel

Why not use free electricity on Kinnegad chargers? You can find freeloaders there, but as there are two of those it means less waiting if needed.

ei9go

KCross wrote: »

You must be ready for an upgrade at this stage. Have you got one eye on anything yet?

Notwithstanding you started at 30%, but why did you only get 13.4kWh in 45mins. Thats really low considering the L30 has a much better charge curve than the L24. That figure doesnt seem right somehow.

It was very cold yesterday. Only got 13.3kWh R110 in 85 mins because the battery was cold.

It's has to be obvious that the charging finishes long journeys for smaller battery cars like the older leafs. It costs to much and you have to charge too often.

kennethsmyth

ei9go wrote: »

It was very cold yesterday. Only got 13.3kWh R110 in 85 mins because the battery was cold.

It's has to be obvious that the charging finishes long journeys for smaller battery cars like the older leafs. It costs to much and you have to charge too often.

Yeah this is unintended consequences, I think you need to put forward this to Ecars and see if the overstay could be moved to 1 hour, it will still have an effect.

ELM327

kennethsmyth wrote: »

Yeah this is unintended consequences, I think you need to put forward this to Ecars and see if the overstay could be moved to 1 hour, it will still have an effect.

1 hour is too long
An R zoe should not be using a fast AC

kennethsmyth

ELM327 wrote: »

1 hour is too long
An R zoe should not be using a fast AC

I'm conflicted here, I don't really want an hour, but I don't want something like a 30kwh leaf no longer be useful for longer distances either. So maybe there is something still to fix in the pricing scheme.

Note it would help if 45 mins was 45 mins at least on their own app!

ELM327

kennethsmyth wrote: »

I'm conflicted here, I don't really want an hour, but I don't want something like a 30kwh leaf no longer be useful for longer distances either. So maybe there is something still to fix in the pricing scheme.

Note it would help if 45 mins was 45 mins at least on their own app!

Did you see my comment, his figures don't add up

kennethsmyth

ELM327 wrote: »

Did you see my comment, his figures don't add up

Sorry Elm, didnt see that, I assumed he was correct and truthful.

kanuseeme

ei9go wrote: »

It was very cold yesterday. Only got 13.3kWh R110 in 85 mins because the battery was cold.

It's has to be obvious that the charging finishes long journeys for smaller battery cars like the older leafs. It costs to much and you have to charge too often.

ELM327 wrote: »

Did you see my comment, his figures don't add up

That is 2 people who got 13 kWh in a really long time, any one else experience such slow charge rates?

ELM327

kanuseeme wrote: »

That is 2 people who got 13 kWh in a really long time, any one else experience such slow charge rates?

The R zoe is limited to 22kW max charging so that's an unfair example.

zg3409

ELM327 wrote: »

FWIW the overstay fee is something I have to watch for too. My car (Model S 90D) would take 1.5 hours to charge to 90% on chademo/ccs at ecars. So I must either pay the fiver or make two stops (or do what I usually do, and use Ionity/Tesla/Easygo)

Easygo has an overstay fee too.
There is an additional overstay fee of 35c PER MINUTE after 60 minutes since November 26th at Athy Mullingar and Monaghan fast chargers only (does not apply to Kinnegad and Drogheda easygo fast chargers). At 21 euro an hour after one hour plus electricity fees you won't be slowly topping up to 100%. Drogheda may be pay to use in the coming days

charlieIRL

zg3409 wrote: »

Easygo has an overstay fee too.
There is an additional overstay fee of 35c PER MINUTE after 60 minutes since November 26th at Athy Mullingar and Monaghan fast chargers only (does not apply to Kinnegad and Drogheda easygo fast chargers). At 21 euro an hour after one hour plus electricity fees you won't be slowly topping up to 100%. Drogheda may be pay to use in the coming days

When in charge at the EasyGo in Kinnegad, it only gives me the option to charge to 80%, the "Full" button doesn't work when i tap it. Is this the same for everyone? Normally 80% is perfect but this weekend i need all the juice i can get as long as there's not someone waiting to use the charger

ELM327

zg3409 wrote: »

Easygo has an overstay fee too.
There is an additional overstay fee of 35c PER MINUTE after 60 minutes since November 26th at Athy Mullingar and Monaghan fast chargers only (does not apply to Kinnegad and Drogheda easygo fast chargers). At 21 euro an hour after one hour plus electricity fees you won't be slowly topping up to 100%. Drogheda may be pay to use in the coming days

I won't be "slowly" doing anything. I'm still probably pulling close to 50kW all the way to 90%.
The issue is that the charger is only 50kW.

As far as I was aware, the easygo fee is for being parked and not charging... as opposed to an overstay

ELM327

charlieIRL wrote: »

When in charge at the EasyGo in Kinnegad, it only gives me the option to charge to 80%, the "Full" button doesn't work when i tap it. Is this the same for everyone? Normally 80% is perfect but this weekend i need all the juice i can get as long as there's not someone waiting to use the charger

This is good, all chargers should be like that imo.

zg3409

ELM327 wrote: »

As far as I was aware, the easygo fee is for being parked and not charging... as opposed to an overstay

I believe this fee applies after 60 minutes connected if charging or not. It is free parking for first hour with pay per minute after that. I have not tested it in the real world as my Ioniq is full after 35 minutes Max.

ELM327

zg3409 wrote: »

I believe this fee applies after 60 minutes connected if charging or not. It is free parking for first hour with pay per minute after that. I have not tested it in the real world as my Ioniq is full after 35 minutes Max.

It would appear you are correct, this was not how it was marketed initially but I checked on their map and it shows the following:

Hotel - EasyGo 50kW DC Charge Point. Access through EasyGo only. Access fee payable plus €0.35 per kWh used. There is an additional overstay penalty of €0.35 per minute applied after 60 minutes plugged in.

So 35c per kWh, plus 35c per min after 1 hour.
To get 70 kWh in 1.5 hours would cost €24.50 in electricity costs and €10.50 in per min charges. €35 for 275km range, not great value but I'd pay it if the stop made sense.

innrain

BoatMad wrote: »

I want to relay my conundrum

I have a 30 kWh leaf with two bars goneb( 178,000km)

Yesterday in the cold I had to get from bray at 30 % to athlone

I was informed that kilbeggan “ out of contact “. Hence I had to charge at bray ( I started at 30%) and Enfield.

But 45 minutes at bray got just 13.4 kWh into the car.

At Enfield because kilbeggan was out , I needed 93/95% charge to reach athlone with about 25 kmph left

That took 54 minutes resulting in an overcharge yet I had no choice

This isn’t right.

The net result is the trip was a good bit more expensive then in a small diesel

I think you should have tried for Lucan. Charging cold might have giving you the slow rate.

I find Stillorgan P&R temperamental when cold. Last night after 15 minutes, charging rate started to drop from 42 to 35 kW. Usually as you charge the rate should go up. Left and I charged this morning in Bray 28.750 kWh in 00:35:55 average 48kW

innrain

Forgot to mention that I got a notification from the new app at min 35 reminding about the overstay fee. I was just about to leave at that point anyway but I find that a useful thing for some with time management issues. Also the timer seems more accurate than the website at it resets when return to the app. There is still some 10 s difference from the app timer to the charger timer but I can live with it. Yesterday I couldn't start the charging from the app. The charger in Stillorgan was asking for the card.