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Ireland Team Talk XI: Team of nervoUS MOD warning Post 1

[Deleted User]

Continued from here
https://touch.boards.ie/thread/2057953711/251
All Ireland Senior XV related talk here.

MOD: Bear in mind this thread is starting during the World Cup window and the zero tolerance policy is in force. Trolling will be rewarded with an instant ban. For the duration of the tournament any mention of Zebo in this thread will not be permitted, it is just dragging current Ireland squad talk off topic.

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Niallof9

A good thing for us. We need to try different options now. We're past the oh we're so screwed stage without Sexton. This nonsense must be put to bed now. He's the last player that we fret about like this and it needs to stop after the disaster part 2. He was looking unfit in the World Cup, on the biggest stage in the World, so whats it matter if he misses a near mickey mouse match against the Scots..

Unfortunately it means POM might be captain.

I'd have JJ Hanrahan in the squad as well

I don't think Byrne's going to be good enough. He'll be a solid pro with a good few caps, but his brother has more about him. As good a kicker, more pace, better breaker, possibly a better passer. He's certainly not going to be the undisputed starting ten come the Six Nations.

We need to get Ulster giving Lowry a shot at his natural position as well.

Some outside names for the Six Nations squad: Hanrahan, Dillane, Doris, Deegan, Kelleher, Cooney, McCloskey, Balacounne. And James Ryan captain. And for once i can see merit in bringing Dave Kearney back in, despite all i have said about the lad! Something like that would get the collective juices flowing again, and imo give Farrell a natural bounce and he would get wholesale backing i'd imagine for trusting others...to hell what Nucifora saids.

irishbucsfan

Interested Observer wrote: »

Firstly - not good.

Secondly - In a perverse way this has come at the right time for Ireland I think. Sexton has come from his worst ever international season and he's 34 years old, but was still going to be the default pick. We're forced now to fully invest in the other guys now coming up to the tournament. Byrne is going to get a great run at it now with 3 Euro starts.

Yep I agree with that. Perfect time to throw the gauntlet down and see who will put their hand up

Eod100

Yeah don't think Carbery needs to be rushed back either. A 6N after a RWC is probably one of the best times to rotate if at all possible. Sexton won't be around forever so need to plan for future.

[Deleted User]

Firstly - not good.

Secondly - In a perverse way this has come at the right time for Ireland I think. Sexton has come from his worst ever international season and he's 34 years old, but was still going to be the default pick. We're forced now to fully invest in the other guys now coming up to the tournament. Byrne is going to get a great run at it now with 3 Euro starts.

Shefwedfan

Eod100 wrote: »

Sexton rumoured to be out for 8 to 10 weeks. https://m.independent.ie/sport/rugby/leinster-rugby/article38770178.ece

If true, and I put say its a big IF.....then they need to look at Carbery and see what is the story. If he isn't back playing by Christmas then other options need to be considered.

We can't be going into another 6 nations with unfit 10's like last season.

If Sexton is out that long then no point rushing him back either and playing him not match fit.....

Eod100

Sexton rumoured to be out for 8 to 10 weeks. https://m.independent.ie/sport/rugby/leinster-rugby/article38770178.ece

awec

Niallof9 wrote: »

We started to just let Joe do everything. The great thing about '18 was we had our own voice, our own mind. And we had that freedom at the end of the week to step into the space, to lead, that allowed us to lead. You can't just turn up at the Aviva Stadium at five o'clock and say: 'Right, it's our turn to lead'. You can get a bit lost.

"In '19, that end of the week space was starting to be filled a bit much with coaches. If there's a space there for the players to fill, and you don't fill it, they're going to fill it. At the end of that (World Cup warm-up) England defeat, we sat down with Joe and said: 'We trust you implicitly; we know you'll get the tactics right; but you're going to have to trust us that from captain's run onwards, let us build in our own way'."

Rory Best

Farrell is complicit in this cock up, clearly, hopefully he learns the lessons

I think you've made your point at this stage. Move on.

[Deleted User]

Niallof9 wrote: »

We started to just let Joe do everything. The great thing about '18 was we had our own voice, our own mind. And we had that freedom at the end of the week to step into the space, to lead, that allowed us to lead. You can't just turn up at the Aviva Stadium at five o'clock and say: 'Right, it's our turn to lead'. You can get a bit lost.

"In '19, that end of the week space was starting to be filled a bit much with coaches. If there's a space there for the players to fill, and you don't fill it, they're going to fill it. At the end of that (World Cup warm-up) England defeat, we sat down with Joe and said: 'We trust you implicitly; we know you'll get the tactics right; but you're going to have to trust us that from captain's run onwards, let us build in our own way'."

Rory Best

Farrell is complicit in this cock up, clearly, hopefully he learns the lessons

Do you get bored posting the same thing repeatedly?

Niallof9

We started to just let Joe do everything. The great thing about '18 was we had our own voice, our own mind. And we had that freedom at the end of the week to step into the space, to lead, that allowed us to lead. You can't just turn up at the Aviva Stadium at five o'clock and say: 'Right, it's our turn to lead'. You can get a bit lost.

"In '19, that end of the week space was starting to be filled a bit much with coaches. If there's a space there for the players to fill, and you don't fill it, they're going to fill it. At the end of that (World Cup warm-up) England defeat, we sat down with Joe and said: 'We trust you implicitly; we know you'll get the tactics right; but you're going to have to trust us that from captain's run onwards, let us build in our own way'."

Rory Best

Farrell is complicit in this cock up, clearly, hopefully he learns the lessons

Shefwedfan

Dubinusa wrote: »

Over the past few years we've been talking about our inability to score when in the opposition 22. It was a problem during the Schmidt tenure. What does Farrell have up his sleeve? It will be interesting to see if there is a change to our play and mindset while in the 22.

In 2018 we scored tries no issue.....

We have scored tries v NZ in Chicago and other games as well.

In 2019 we couldn't, then then again neither could Wales

Stout Warrior

Dubinusa wrote: »

Over the past few years we've been talking about our inability to score when in the opposition 22. It was a problem during the Schmidt tenure. What does Farrell have up his sleeve? It will be interesting to see if there is a change to our play and mindset while in the 22.

The first thing he should do is ban 9/10 from kicking outside our own 22. Won't happen but it would instill a mentality of we have to create space to get up the field.

The second would be a knock on from this - don't bludgeon teams into submission - find other ways to win whether that be an offloading game or wide game.

Finally, we should reward players who make line breaks - financially or otherwise. All these things won't happen, however, but we can only dream.

Dubinusa

Over the past few years we've been talking about our inability to score when in the opposition 22. It was a problem during the Schmidt tenure. What does Farrell have up his sleeve? It will be interesting to see if there is a change to our play and mindset while in the 22.

Shefwedfan

Out
Best, Cronin, McGrath, Conan, SOB, Carty, Farrell, Kearney

In
Kelleher, Herring, O'Sulivan, Doris, Deegan, McCloskey, Haley

Blade and Cooney are in that squad. I can't see Murray been dropped.

I havent named a replacement for Carty.....that is on purpose.....

Jump_In_Jack

Shefwedfan wrote: »

What was squad last year?

Based on current form I think Toner won’t be going too far

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/2019_Six_Nations_Championship_squads

Jump_In_Jack

Dubinusa wrote: »

Got to disagree with Kleyn. Roux would be ahead of him. I think John Ryan misses out and Moore comes in.
Cooney and Blade should be in. Dillane and Beirne are in with a shout also. Should be interesting.

Not much between Roux and Kleyn.

Fair shout for Moore.

Dillane and Beirne were both in the squad last time.

Blade and Cooney both were in the squad in 2019,
So I guess I should have had McGrath replacing Blade.

Dubinusa

Got to disagree with Kleyn. Roux would be ahead of him. I think John Ryan misses out and Moore comes in.
Cooney and Blade should be in. Dillane and Beirne are in with a shout also. Should be interesting.

Shefwedfan

Jump_In_Jack wrote: »

Comparing to last year we had a squad of 38 for the 6N,
3xHooker, 3xLH Prop, 3xTH Prop, 5xLock, 7 Back Rows, 3xSH, 3xOH, 6xCentre, 3xWing, 2xFullback

My guess, this year's 6N squad compared to last year, maybe around 8 changes:
Hooker: Rory Best out => Rónan Kelleher in.
LH Prop: Jack McGrath out => Eric O'Sullivan in.
TH Prop: No change.
Lock: Toner out => Kleyn in.
Back Row: O'Brien and Conan out => Jack O'Donoghue and Caelan Doris in.
SH: Marmion out => Cooney in.
OH: No Change.
Centre: Tom Farrell out => Luke Marshall in.
Wing: No change.
Fullback: Rob Kearney out => Mike Haley in.

What was squad last year?

Based on current form I think Toner won’t be going too far

Jump_In_Jack

Comparing to last year we had a squad of 38 for the 6N,
3xHooker, 3xLH Prop, 3xTH Prop, 5xLock, 7 Back Rows, 3xSH, 3xOH, 6xCentre, 3xWing, 2xFullback

My guess, this year's 6N squad compared to last year, maybe around 8 changes:
Hooker: Rory Best out => Rónan Kelleher in.
LH Prop: Jack McGrath out => Eric O'Sullivan in.
TH Prop: No change.
Lock: Toner out => Kleyn in.
Back Row: O'Brien and Conan out => Jack O'Donoghue and Caelan Doris in.
SH: Blade out => McGrath in.
OH: No Change.
Centre: Tom Farrell out => Luke Marshall in.
Wing: No change.
Fullback: Rob Kearney out => Mike Haley in.

Shefwedfan

kingofthekong wrote: »

On form the backrow should be a something like:

8. Doris/ Stander
7. VDF
6. Ruddock/stander

Or we could just name the entire Leinster team...

I actually dont like saying it because Ireland are a better team when all provinces are firing on all cylinders

But its really a case of which Leinster players do you leave out...because theres only a handful of players in other provinces putting their hand up

You could literally pick the whole leinster team IQ obviously and play in the six nations and im not sure the ireland team in the world cup would do any better

Stander at 6 with a strong 8 like Conan I think will give a huge jump to his game. He is still a quality player and I would hope he starts but not at 8.....

kingofthekong

Shefwedfan wrote: »

I would like to see Stander given a chance at 6. So I would put VDF at 7 and then someone at 8. Who that is still has a ????

On form the backrow should be a something like:

8. Doris/ Stander
7. VDF
6. Ruddock/stander

Or we could just name the entire Leinster team...

I actually dont like saying it because Ireland are a better team when all provinces are firing on all cylinders

But its really a case of which Leinster players do you leave out...because theres only a handful of players in other provinces putting their hand up

You could literally pick the whole leinster team IQ obviously and play in the six nations and im not sure the ireland team in the world cup would do any better

Zzippy

Professor Genius wrote: »

You have no idea why I had a different user name.

Your anger reveals how horrible the truth must be for you. King Joe is no more and his fake legacy is being dismantled before your very eyes.

Mod: We've had enough of this nonsense. Any more trolling from other posters about fanbois or King Joe etc will result in bans, like this one did.

Dubinusa

Jaysus. J.S is gone! Let's move on. He gave us a purple patch and took us up the ladder to being a proper tier 1 side. I agree that he totally **** the bed for the rwc, but it's a new era now!
As far as oh goes, I think if Sexton is out. Burns has been the most consistent 10 so far. But, Carberry may return and claim his spot. Carty wasn't too bad on Sunday, but needs to eliminate the brain farts if he wants to stake a claim. Then there is RB. A very capable lad. One decisive match against England does not end his Hope's imo. If that were the case, many of our lads would or should be cast aside.
Remember, England hosed us comfortably at the Aviva in Feb. I don't see any other player getting the flak that RB received.
Murray was ok this weekend. But still hasn't rose up the ranks, imo. Cooney offers so much more, imo. But, Farrell makes that decision. Blade has been superb too and then there's the Leinster lads.
The back row will be a crapshoot. It seemed unbalanced all this year. It lacked power and cohesion and was regularly outplayed. I would hope to see some new blood during the 6nations. But if I was to guess, I think it will be POM, VDF and Stander. I would prefer Ruddock, VDF and Stander. We might get Stander Vdf and Nordi at 8?
I reckon Doris or Deegan will feature and maybe Beirne and JOD.
Regardless, the core of the team will be gradually changed. There's a few fringe players really putting in some great shifts. So, the coaches will be very busy watching the upcoming games and picking the squad and wider squad.

Shefwedfan

whatawaster wrote: »

What's our starting backrow v Scotland?

Ruddock v POM
Doris v Stander
VDF v Just staying fit because he is the best backrow in the country by a long way at the moment.

I'd guess at Ruddock, Stander, VDF.

Doris is playing very well, but Stander impressed me against Saracens, and I think the experience might get him the nod.

I would like to see Stander given a chance at 6. So I would put VDF at 7 and then someone at 8. Who that is still has a ????

yerrahbah

Squidgy Black wrote: »

Carbery is due back in the next week or two apparently, if he's fit he'll be picked I imagine.

Forgot about Carbery, needs a few games under his belt at Munster first I would think.

Stout Warrior

Niallof9 wrote: »

“The two vice-captains are Johnny and Pete so if there was going to be continuity, it would be Johnny and Pete,” said Schmidt.

why do we want continuity. already the situations people said wouldn't happen are starting to happen,

Schmidt sticking around is the worst thing that can happen. I'm not looking forward to this at all

We had yet another redemption article today. Larmour. Refused to talk about the WC basically, pretending it didn't happen.

Chris Farrell interview was an aye opener though. Seems to indicate how much more relaxed an operator Larkham is, which even though he was referring to probably Felix Jones, it would explain why Schmidt was a fan.

There is no way POM should be captain. Sexton currently is the only established, proven World Class operator ready for the role no matter his form. And as he get gradually replaced over the next 12 months he can be taken over by Ryan. Murray can no longer be considered in that bracket until he fully recovers.

The thing needs to be a total reboot to bring a positive vibe back. If lads like Cooney, Farrell by two, Conway, Addison don't get a look i think things will turn toxic fairly sharpish.

You strike me as having a problem with coaches like Joe and say that things turn toxic fairly quickly. Do you not think the players are there to serve and not be prima donnas who dictate selections by being "toxic" in camp?

There has to be a certain amount of changing of the guard. Best is gone, Kearney looks gone, Murray looks outplayed by several players at the moment.

With the rigid plays instilled in the players at world cup and no positive result things will have to be changed a certain amount and things freshened up.

I think a player can make his case and if he doesn't get selected it's something he has to live with not have a bad attitude and try to poison the atmosphere in camp by being p1ssed off with the coaches decisions.

Cooney has been the main fall guy in this regard and his attitude has been anything but toxic - he has swallowed the bitter pill and not complained or thrown a strop he has come back better and better each time.

If Farrell has a bit of sense he will change things up but to say players have a right to throw a strop for not being selected says more about your mindset and attitude than it does about Joe or his supposed conservatism.

Yeah_Right

Professor Genius wrote: »

You have no idea why I had a different user name.

Your anger reveals how horrible the truth must be for you. King Joe is no more and his fake legacy is being dismantled before your very eyes.

So tell us, who was your favourite player that JS kept ignoring and not selecting? Or was it more than one?

I know exactly why you had a different user name

whatawaster

Shefwedfan wrote: »

Carty is struggling to get into Connacht team, I didnt see game at weekend but quick look at Connacht thread and it doesn't look like he is playing well....

You have Sexton, R Byrne, Burns, JJ and Fitzgerald all playing well and in form for a sustained period. Can't see how he would be considered to be Sextons replacement.....

I'd still want Carbery, if fit, to get a proper run in the Ireland 10 shirt.

Have been very impressed with Fitzgerald. He's the kind of guy you'd like to see on a summer tour, or a November international. But there is a lot of traffic between him and Sexton (Carbery, Carty, JJ, Burns, Byrne).

whatawaster

What's our starting backrow v Scotland?

Ruddock v POM
Doris v Stander
VDF v Just staying fit because he is the best backrow in the country by a long way at the moment.

I'd guess at Ruddock, Stander, VDF.

Doris is playing very well, but Stander impressed me against Saracens, and I think the experience might get him the nod.

Shefwedfan

whatawaster wrote: »

It should always be a mixture of form and overall ability. Can't just pick whoever played best last weekend, likewise you can't ignore extended drop-offs in form.

The right balance is somewhere in between those two.

Carty is struggling to get into Connacht team, I didnt see game at weekend but quick look at Connacht thread and it doesn't look like he is playing well....

You have Sexton, R Byrne, Burns, JJ and Fitzgerald all playing well and in form for a sustained period. Can't see how he would be considered to be Sextons replacement.....

whatawaster

aloooof wrote: »

2011: Heineken Cup
2012: Heineken Cup
2013: Pro12, Challenge Cup
2014: 6 Nations
2015: 6 Nations
2018: Grand Slam, first series win in Australia since 1979, second win vs NZ.

Add in:
- Our first ever wins vs NZ (2016, 2018)
- Our first ever test win in SA (2016)
- Our first series win vs Australia in 40 years (2018)

Ya, he was a real charlatan. :rolleyes:

That SA series still hurts.