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Western Rail Corridor / Rail Trail Discussion

[Deleted User]

Carrying on with the discussion as the other thread is full

https://touch.boards.ie/thread/2055766866/1

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mayo.mick

Sligo eye wrote: »

Actually I have.

Out of interest, how much did the train journey cost you, and how long did it take?

Sligo eye

Greaney wrote: »

Indeed, it should be about planning for the future.

1)The commuting population that work in Galway city but live in the county is now at it's highest at 50%
2) The top 3 commuter towns in the county are Oranmore, Tuam & Athenry in that order, of course they should be linked.
3) Athenry is an Education hub with three secondary schools and students coming from all directions to attend them.
4) Athenry is also a 'disabled services' hub, as is Tuam (with an Irish Wheelchair Assoc. regional office)
5) Many post offices have closed since 'decades ago' (eg; Ballyglunin) so many of our citizens who don't/cannot drive need infrastructure to link them to vital public services
6) This issue is bigger than Galway, there are rail advocacy groups all over the Island, hoping to link Derry to Cork with all our airports along the way.

And that most certainly is worth planning for.....

Delighted to see this post. The Derry campaign is certainly taking off and those of us who are also involved in it are very much aware of the need to get the Western seaboard properly rail connected to shift infrastructure focus away from the Belfast-Dublin axis.

In many respects the greenway anti rail campaigning has galvanised people - the silent majority - to re-examine our love affair with the private car and skeletal bus services and rethink how our towns and cities are planned.

The greenway campaign may have keyboard warriors on their side but we have something much stronger - cool heads and serious engineering and planning experts who have a clear vision as to what Ireland should look like over the next 40 years.

Sligo eye

Isambard wrote: »

well of course if someone did really want to take the train from Derry to Cork, there's nothing to stop them doing that now, with changes , (and if a demand were to be shown , a through train wouldn't be impossible). I'm betting no-one has actually done that journey recently.

Actually I have.

Isambard

Muckyboots wrote: »

You think people would want to get a train from Derry to Cork? One that meanders through south Mayo and north Galway with over 16 road crossings in less than a 20km stretch, reducing the average speed to less than 50kmph? I think Sinn Fein should be aiming much higher than that if they think they come back from the EU with a 1/2 billion euros in their back pockets for the West of Ireland.

well of course if someone did really want to take the train from Derry to Cork, there's nothing to stop them doing that now, with changes , (and if a demand were to be shown , a through train wouldn't be impossible). I'm betting no-one has actually done that journey recently.

Greaney

Deleted User wrote: »

Nobody is anti mass transit here. Most are anti waste of money though

For the money to get Athenry to Tuam up and running, you would put in bus lanes all the way from Tuam to Galway, Moycullen to Galway, Loughrea to Galway etc and move a hell of a lot more people a hell of a lot faster

As for people not wanting to use buses, Burkes alone puts that silly argument to rest with their schedule which reflects the real demand

I understand that you don't want to see money wasted, and I don't think you're going to be convinced by any arguments at all. The truth is we have to make big investments in the country to keep up to par with the changes happening around us. We failed to do this after the boom in the 70's and our lack of infrastructure meant we not only failed to attract more Foreign direct investment, but companies that were here closed. Furthermore, in trying to catch up with the rest of the first world, regular workers were taxed out the wazoo to pay for investment and it led to a protracted recession through the 80's. This up coming meeting is about EU funding so I'm assuming that the burden won't end up on the Irish worker.

I live in a town with a train and it's terrific. but to address some more of your other points

1) This issue isn't just about Athenry & Tuam, it's about Claremorris, Ballyglunin, and after that Sligo etc.... The main Cities on the West coast of the country are not linked!
2) Not all commuters go to Galway... as I've said in earlier threads, Athenry & Tuam are themselves hubs for surrounding areas
3) There are over 50 buses a day between Tuam & Galway, for example. That's a lot more traffic on Galway city's roads, even if you build more bus lanes into Galway. In Galway we are blessed with a train that goes right to the city centre.
4) I travel regularly on the train between Athenry to Galway, mostly on trains coming from Limerick, and we're now finding those trains don't have enough seats by Athenry. They already need more carriages. The service was opened during the bust so it was slow to take off, but now that the Ghost estates in Craughwell are lived in... it's very busy.
5) Train is much more comfortable. I called buses 'The vomit comet' because long journeys make some people travel sick. A huge amount of folk travel to attend UCHG for cancer treatments, Kidney dialysis etc. and the train is their preferred mode over a bus, say.
6) Those that are arguing for double tracking between Galway & Athenry are spot on. The Athenry service is too expensive and makes huge profits for Iarnrod Éireann, it's only €3 more to go to Ballinasloe.

[Deleted User]

Greaney wrote: »

Well, we could ignore building any infrastructure and just drive everywhere... And look where that leads us

Furthermore, loads of people have no option but to use public transport, and many folk don't like getting the 'vomit comet' (bus)

I have no idea, how folk who are so anti-mass transit, figure how our country is going to develop, but I can tell you, our cities are bound up with traffic and not getting any less congested.

Nobody is anti mass transit here. Most are anti waste of money though

For the money to get Athenry to Tuam up and running, you would put in bus lanes all the way from Tuam to Galway, Moycullen to Galway, Loughrea to Galway etc and move a hell of a lot more people a hell of a lot faster

As for people not wanting to use buses, Burkes alone puts that silly argument to rest with their schedule which reflects the real demand

Greaney

Muckyboots wrote: »

You think people would want to get a train from Derry to Cork? One that meanders through south Mayo and north Galway with over 16 road crossings in less than a 20km stretch, reducing the average speed to less than 50kmph? I think Sinn Fein should be aiming much higher than that if they think they come back from the EU with a 1/2 billion euros in their back pockets for the West of Ireland.

Well, we could ignore building any infrastructure and just drive everywhere... And look where that leads us

Furthermore, loads of people have no option but to use public transport, and many folk don't like getting the 'vomit comet' (bus)

I have no idea, how folk who are so anti-mass transit, figure how our country is going to develop, but I can tell you, our cities are bound up with traffic and not getting any less congested.

ohographite

Muckyboots wrote: »

You think people would want to get a train from Derry to Cork? One that meanders through south Mayo and north Galway with over 16 road crossings in less than a 20km stretch, reducing the average speed to less than 50kmph? I think Sinn Fein should be aiming much higher than that if they think they come back from the EU with a 1/2 billion euros in their back pockets for the West of Ireland.

(I have said this before)If and when the new road is built from Tuam to Derry(N17 and N15 upgrade), it can be built straight and level.
That way a new railway can be built on the road alignment alongside the road traffic lanes, which would give a faster train journey(compared to the original railway alignment) because of the low curvature and lack of level crossings.
The railway could return briefly to the original railway alignment to run through towns like Claremorris where stations would be.

This idea could stop the opposition of the greenway on the original railway alignment, since the railway could share the other alignment with the new road instead.

end of the road

Muckyboots wrote: »

You think people would want to get a train from Derry to Cork? One that meanders through south Mayo and north Galway with over 16 road crossings in less than a 20km stretch, reducing the average speed to less than 50kmph? I think Sinn Fein should be aiming much higher than that if they think they come back from the EU with a 1/2 billion euros in their back pockets for the West of Ireland.

the crossings would likely be closed as part of any rebuild if a reopening of the wrc north of athenry was to take place.
it would be unlikely that there would be an actual derry to cork service, but rather the line would be a mix of regional services providing shorter journeys but which would allow connectivity between the 2 cities. presumably limerick to cork, then galway to limerick, galway to derry, or limerick to derry, perhapse limerick to sligo and then sligo to derry. who knows.
i wouldn't worry about it, whatever about reopening north of athenry i can't see any extension via sligo to derry. derry to dublin stopping at belfast would probably be the most likely for a derry direct to the republic service if any ever does happen, which i can't see it anytime soon.

[Deleted User]

Muckyboots wrote: »

You think people would want to get a train from Derry to Cork? One that meanders through south Mayo and north Galway with over 16 road crossings in less than a 20km stretch, reducing the average speed to less than 50kmph? I think Sinn Fein should be aiming much higher than that if they think they come back from the EU with a 1/2 billion euros in their back pockets for the West of Ireland.

I would imagine if [if] such a plan was ever to get anywhere, it would be designed and built to modern standards with bridges instead of level crossings.
It would also need to take a more direct route, the days when the station needed to go through the middle of a town are long gone, one connecting bus to the town centre & a P+R system is whats needed these days.

Muckyboots

Greaney wrote: »

Indeed, it should be about planning for the future.

1)The commuting population that work in Galway city but live in the county is now at it's highest at 50%
2) The top 3 commuter towns in the county are Oranmore, Tuam & Athenry in that order, of course they should be linked.
3) Athenry is an Education hub with three secondary schools and students coming from all directions to attend them.
4) Athenry is also a 'disabled services' hub, as is Tuam (with an Irish Wheelchair Assoc. regional office)
5) Many post offices have closed since 'decades ago' (eg; Ballyglunin) so many of our citizens who don't/cannot drive need infrastructure to link them to vital public services
6) This issue is bigger than Galway, there are rail advocacy groups all over the Island, hoping to link Derry to Cork with all our airports along the way.

And that most certainly is worth planning for.....

You think people would want to get a train from Derry to Cork? One that meanders through south Mayo and north Galway with over 16 road crossings in less than a 20km stretch, reducing the average speed to less than 50kmph? I think Sinn Fein should be aiming much higher than that if they think they come back from the EU with a 1/2 billion euros in their back pockets for the West of Ireland.

Greaney

donvito99 wrote: »

Nor should we be justifying railways on the basis that one existed decades ago.

Indeed, it should be about planning for the future.

1)The commuting population that work in Galway city but live in the county is now at it's highest at 50%
2) The top 3 commuter towns in the county are Oranmore, Tuam & Athenry in that order, of course they should be linked.
3) Athenry is an Education hub with three secondary schools and students coming from all directions to attend them.
4) Athenry is also a 'disabled services' hub, as is Tuam (with an Irish Wheelchair Assoc. regional office)
5) Many post offices have closed since 'decades ago' (eg; Ballyglunin) so many of our citizens who don't/cannot drive need infrastructure to link them to vital public services
6) This issue is bigger than Galway, there are rail advocacy groups all over the Island, hoping to link Derry to Cork with all our airports along the way.

And that most certainly is worth planning for.....

donvito99

Greaney wrote: »

Here here, most of us use it for commuting. Rail & Bike are a terrific combo.

Nor should we be justifying railways on the basis that one existed decades ago.

Greaney

donvito99 wrote: »

We should not be justifying railways on the basis that it would encourage recreational cycling.

Here here, most of us use it for commuting. Rail & Bike are a terrific combo.

donvito99

We should not be justifying railways on the basis that it would encourage recreational cycling.

Greaney

end of the road wrote: »

well actually, voting out politicians who happened to block a greenway that is probably unlikely to be built anyway, isn't of itself proof that the vast majority of people in east galway share the difference of opinion.
what it does show, is that those politicians in general weren't delivering enough, and were not meeting the expectations of the people they were originally elected to serve.
even if they supported the greenway, if they were crap over all and not delivering, then they probably would still be out.

Indeed, some councillors who supported the greenway lost their seats, some who supported the opening of the WRC kept their seats.

All I know is, when I have organised events to encourage cycling in the Athenry area, I see pity little of those who support the Quiet Man Greenway actually turn up... on bikes! Many who support cycling in the area, turn up, offer to steward, do out maps etc. and guess what??? Most support the WRC because many of us believe that the rail supports cycling. We bike & rail to commute etc.. There's a 'quiet' and large number of folk who support rail, don't underestimate it because of the clicks of a mouse.

Bums in saddles are the real figures, and not just those in lycra….

end of the road

Deleted User wrote: »

A different opinion is not bullying.

The facts are that the difference of opinion is held by the vast majority of people in East Galway as shown by the fact that a number of politicians blocking the greenway were voted out in the last local elections.

I'm looking forward to this meeting on Thursday.

Can't wait to meet the only 3 members of Flag too

well actually, voting out politicians who happened to block a greenway that is probably unlikely to be built anyway, isn't of itself proof that the vast majority of people in east galway share the difference of opinion.
what it does show, is that those politicians in general weren't delivering enough, and were not meeting the expectations of the people they were originally elected to serve.
even if they supported the greenway, if they were crap over all and not delivering, then they probably would still be out.

JCX BXC

Oh because Sinn Féin are always so scared to offer a differing opinion.

[Deleted User]

Greaney wrote: »

There's a meeting regarding EU funding and the Western Rail Corridor hosted by Sinn Féin next Thursday (12th December) in the local community Hall in Athenry.

I'd love is these meetings were cross party, however, alas, this became a loaded issue last year and many politicians were bullied over it so it kinda takes guts to stand up and say 'actually, I've a different opinion' at the moment.

As a carer with my sister a member of the Wheelchair Assoc., I know that train is a lifeline for her....

https://www.facebook.com/events/2336790123301860/

A different opinion is not bullying.

The facts are that the difference of opinion is held by the vast majority of people in East Galway as shown by the fact that a number of politicians blocking the greenway were voted out in the last local elections.

I'm looking forward to this meeting on Thursday.

Can't wait to meet the only 3 members of Flag too

Muckyboots

Greaney wrote: »

There's a meeting regarding EU funding and the Western Rail Corridor hosted by Sinn Féin next Thursday (12th December) in the local community Hall in Athenry.
I'd love is these meetings were cross party, however, alas, this became a loaded issue last year and many politicians were bullied over it so it kinda takes guts to stand up and say 'actually, I've a different opinion' at the moment.
https://www.facebook.com/events/2336790123301860/

It's a public meeting. Anyone can attend. Nobody should feel bullied.

Greaney

There's a meeting regarding EU funding and the Western Rail Corridor hosted by Sinn Féin next Thursday (12th December) in the local community Hall in Athenry.

I'd love is these meetings were cross party, however, alas, this became a loaded issue last year and many politicians were bullied over it so it kinda takes guts to stand up and say 'actually, I've a different opinion' at the moment.

As a carer with my sister a member of the Wheelchair Assoc., I know that train is a lifeline for her....

https://www.facebook.com/events/2336790123301860/

blackwhite

Carawaystick wrote: »

Is there a Greenway on the Waterford and Tramore railway? Is that the one at Jack Meades?

Meant the Waterford-Dungarvan.

Posting after a day of pints can be risky

Carawaystick

blackwhite wrote: »

Waterford & Tramore railway closed in 1960, so just shy of 6 decades for there

Is there a Greenway on the Waterford and Tramore railway? Is that the one at Jack Meades?

westtip

blackwhite wrote: »

I don’t think it was a typo - there weren’t many railways 700 years ago

Waterford & Tramore railway closed in 1960, so just shy of 6 decades for there

speed reading indeed means you can miss things! it was correct Seven decades! well spotted. my proof reading late at night is not always at its best!;)

blackwhite

serfboard wrote: »

Begging the question - how many decades must a railway line be closed before it can be considered for a Greenway?

In the case of Westport, the answer was seven (1937-2011). We've a bit to go yet!

westtip wrote: »

SevenTY! not seven!:D yep realise it was a typo!

I don’t think it was a typo - there weren’t many railways 700 years ago

Waterford & Tramore railway closed in 1960, so just shy of 6 decades for there

westtip

serfboard wrote: »

Begging the question - how many decades must a railway line be closed before it can be considered for a Greenway?

In the case of Westport, the answer was seven (1937-2011). We've a bit to go yet!

SevenTY! not seven!:D yep realise it was a typo!

Quackster

serfboard wrote: »

If you only extend the route to Tuam, and do not extend it to Claremorris, then it will not allow for through journeys from Castlebar/Ballina etc. Then, when it inevitably fails, you will have railway supporters on here saying that it failed because it was not extended to Claremorris.

In other words, if you're going to do it, build it to Claremorris - or don't do it at all.

Would disagree with this. If the capital cost were not excessive, I think there would be some merit in reopening Tuam to Athenry given the potential demand for connectivity to services to Dublin, if not Galway or Limerick. Tuam is almost as big as Ballina after all.

I really can't see where any significant demand for services running on the Tuam to Claremorris section would come from though. Insisting on an all-or-nothing reopening of Athenry to Claremorris is just beyond silly IMO.

L1011

serfboard wrote: »

Begging the question - how many decades must a railway line be closed before it can be considered for a Greenway?

In the case of Westport, the answer was seven (1937-2011). We've a bit to go yet!

Three for Athlone-Mullingar; although it was a skeleton service for a further decade.

serfboard

westtip wrote: »

In a speech at a conference about the Western Rail Corridor in May 2009. Mr O’Cuiv when Minister for Community and Gaeltacht affairs said:
“should we use the section of the railway line north of Claremorris as a walkway and cycleway while it is not open as railway?”

Begging the question - how many decades must a railway line be closed before it can be considered for a Greenway?

In the case of Westport, the answer was seven (1937-2011). We've a bit to go yet!

westtip

something from the archives for the weekend

Eamon O’Cuiv: In a speech at a conference about the Western Rail Corridor in May 2009. Mr O’Cuiv when Minister for Community and Gaeltacht affairs said:

“should we use the section of the railway line north of Claremorris as a walkway and cycleway while it is not open as railway?”

Holy moly where are we now!!!