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M7 - Naas/Newbridge Bypass Upgrade [Junction 9a now open]

JupiterKid

Following on from the suggestion of a poster, this thread has been set up to discuss the need for widening the M7.

The section of the M7 IMO in immediate need (really a backlog need) for widening is the section from the Maudlins Interchange at Naas to the M9 interchange - basically the original 1983 Naas Bypass and half of the 1993 Newbridge Bypass. Is this likely to proceed in the near future?

Would the central median be wide enough for widening to D3M here? I'm pretty sure it is wide enough on the Newbridge bypass section but I'm not so sure in the case of the Naas Bypass.

Also, what bridges will need to be demolished and rebuilt? Or would it be more practical to drop the hard shoulder through the existing bridges?

What about the proposal a few years back to build a new junction at on the Naas Bypass at Osberstown? Will it still go ahead?

In the longer term, does anyone see a need to widen the M7 to the N7/M8 junction?

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donvito99

MaceFace wrote: »

I only used the Luas as an example as the costs are well known so easy to compare to the known costs of the M7 works. I'm guessing trains would be much more expensive, strengthening the point I am making.

I've often heard the argument that what do you do with the additional bus/train capacity outside of peak hours. After 10am, the demand will decrease maybe 90% so what do you do with the buses and drivers? Drive empty buses around all day? Send them home only to come back at 3pm for the start of the return journey?

Increased train frequency - there are 10 trains that arrive in Heuston between 7am and 9am. Are these trains full that people can't get on or so overcrowded that people are avoiding them? Its a long time since I took the train from Sallins in the morning, but I always felt the problem was more that it left you on the outskirts of the city. The train was often standing room when I used to get it, but it was only a 30 min journey which was fine. Personally, I don't reducing the time from 30 mins to 20 mins will make much of a difference to anyone.

P+R: Absolutely. It's crazy more is not being done on it and the recent decision by Irish Rail not to take advantage of the vacant underground carpark adjacent to Sallins station is crazy. 200+ spaces.

Anyway, I am not trying to make a case against further investment in public transport along the N7 route, but I'd put up a counter argument that we need more roads. A high speed outer orbital route basically along the border of Dublin because as of now, to get from Naas to Bray, it almost always means going the M50. This would immediately reduce the demand on the M50 and all approaching roads. It should be significantly cheaper than any public transport option and allow people who work in Kildare to commute to South Dublin without needing to go get a train into the city, a luas across town and a Dart/Luas/Bus back out.

Sorry, just rambling...

I like how you argued against the public transport solution (Luas) because it was loss making.

What revenues does the M7 bring in??

And as for the suggestion to bypass the M50 from Naas to Bray, I would refer you to the .... M50.

Any and all traffic removed from the M50 by another bypass will be filled. The bypass will then be filled. Then we will be calling for a bypass of that bypass of the M50. This happens and has happened every where else in the world and there is nothing to suggest that Dublin will be any different.

MaceFace

donvito99 wrote: »

I like how you argued against the public transport solution (Luas) because it was loss making.

What revenues does the M7 bring in??

And as for the suggestion to bypass the M50 from Naas to Bray, I would refer you to the .... M50.

Any and all traffic removed from the M50 by another bypass will be filled. The bypass will then be filled. Then we will be calling for a bypass of that bypass of the M50. This happens and has happened every where else in the world and there is nothing to suggest that Dublin will be any different.

I’m not against public transport and I will always argue that it should be loss making as it is a public service. The problem though is that outside of the city center public transport tends to be either local or bring you into the city center.
In my experience of the m50, going southbound, a lot of people work in Ballymount, Tallaght and Sandyford. Trains and buses to Dublin are no good for these people unless they are part of an integrated transport system that is also high frequency. Think of it this way, what’s an acceptable commuting time? I’d suggest an hour. So, what will it take to get a person from newbridge, Naas or Kildare town to Sandyford, Blackrock, Blanchardstown, or the 100 other places in under an hour?

And yes, build another m50, and as Dublin continues to grow build another and another. And do it in combination with additional public transport. It’s not either or but both.

donvito99

MaceFace wrote: »

So, what will it take to get a person from newbridge, Naas or Kildare town to Sandyford, Blackrock, Blanchardstown, or the 100 other places in under an hour?

Sandyford and Blackrock would be done with Dart Underground.

Blanchardstown by Metro West.

And yes, build another m50, and as Dublin continues to grow build another and another. And do it in combination with additional public transport. It’s not either or but both.

I hope you like traffic.

serfboard

Or we could just, you know, build more housing in Dublin and spare people countless hours of commuting.

But the political will does not exist to do that, and stangely, political pressure isn't forcing it either.

Darc19

GhostyMcGhost wrote: »

Didn't know December was in Autumn

Autumn runs Sept to Nov in terms of metrology and general concensus

So a few days out for finishing work.

Hardly the end of the world.

WishUWereHere

Serious build up last night to exit J10 SB. This was around 19h30. I gave up & drove on to J12.

Anyone know what the reason was for the build up?

WhatsGoingOn2

WishUWereHere wrote: »

Serious build up last night to exit J10 SB. This was around 19h30. I gave up & drove on to J12.

Anyone know what the reason was for the build up?

Was it because of the protests at Aldi?

BuzzFish

Roundabouts at J10 look just about complete although I'd say there is resurfacing to be completed between them. Should open really soon (with days) and save folks having to drop down to bundle of sticks and back up when heading to Newbridge.

WishUWereHere

WhatsGoingOn2 wrote: »

Was it because of the protests at Aldi?

Could possibly have been, but wasn’t the blockade lifted @19h00? Whatever the reason was, it was only affecting last night, no problems tonight.

Geogregor

GhostyMcGhost wrote: »

Didn't know December was in Autumn

Darc19 wrote: »

Autumn runs Sept to Nov in terms of metrology and general concensus

Astronomical autumn ends on December 22

Just sayin'...

GhostyMcGhost

Geogregor wrote: »

Astronomical autumn ends on December 22

Just sayin'...

Astronomical is a word I’d use at times alright

spacetweek

We use Gaelic Seasons in Ireland which are different from everyone else's. Winter here is Nov, Dec, Jan, everywhere else is Dec, Jan, Feb

prunudo

spacetweek wrote: »

We use Gaelic Seasons in Ireland which are different from everyone else's. Winter here is Nov, Dec, Jan, everywhere else is Dec, Jan, Feb

Lets face we don't do seasons at all, its one long season of meh that hovers around 10c +/- a few degrees, and I'm way off topic.

road_high

Saw the Sallins bypass off the train- that looks like a long way off opening especially given the winter months- short days and a lot less scope for getting work done. Spring 2020?

jmkennedyie

Indo page 8 Today suggests speed limit remains 80 for most sections and 100 for some areas Dublin bound around the merge, all until dec 23rd.

I thought would be safer open j9a before bumping up to 120...I guess this is now a possibility

Darc19

jmkennedyie wrote: »

Indo page 8 Today suggests speed limit remains 80 for most sections and 100 for some areas Dublin bound around the merge, all until dec 23rd.

I thought would be safer open j9a before bumping up to 120...I guess this is now a possibility

I don't think the speed restrictions are causing any problems and haven't seen either a speed van or garda check. So if it means jct 9a opening, I'll take it

Hopefully the jct 10 roundabouts will open next week, that will ease the evening tailbacks from Naas

jmkennedyie

Darc19 wrote: »

I don't think the speed restrictions are causing any problems and haven't seen either a speed van or garda check. So if it means jct 9a opening, I'll take it

Hopefully the jct 10 roundabouts will open next week, that will ease the evening tailbacks from Naas

South roundabout needed one more layer as of this Sat afternoon. North roundabout section seems ready to go for a long time...but it only serves lost drivers or folks that need to u turn back to newbridge

BuzzFish

Received the below from Kildare CoCo on Friday. My read is that the contractor does not give 2 ####s about the pain they have caused in Naas and Sallins during construction and don't want to do anything to at least get J9a open to address traffic problems in the run to Christmas. I'd have hoped that Kildare CoCo would be keeping them under pressure but they seem to be just waiting...

From Kildare CoCo:
Please note that we are awaiting confirmation from the contractor that the works have been completed at Junction 9a Osberstown and that a road safety audit has been carried out to confirm that it is safe to open the new Junction 9a.

we are currently awaiting word from the contractor on this matter and have received no indication from the contractor as to when the Junction 9a will be ready in terms of an opening date.

road_high

What the hell are they “waiting for”? Tens of millions of taxpayers money has been spent here and a little bit of accountability should be a given

_Kaiser_

jmkennedyie wrote: »

Indo page 8 Today suggests speed limit remains 80 for most sections and 100 for some areas Dublin bound around the merge, all until dec 23rd.

I thought would be safer open j9a before bumping up to 120...I guess this is now a possibility

So now it's NOT going to be back to 120 in the morning as was suggested here several times quoting sources within the project?

Another delay.. what a surprise! :rolleyes: And that's not even getting into the "ready to go but..not!" junctions.

The management and delivery of this entire endeavour (and the knock-on effects to local traffic, commuting, lost productivity etc) has been piss poor from the start!

But, I won't hold my breath that any penalities will be imposed or that the Councils/NRA (or whatever they call themselves this week) will learn something from it.

WishUWereHere

_Kaiser_ wrote: »

So now it's NOT going to be back to 120 in the morning as was suggested here several times quoting sources within the project?

Another delay.. what a surprise! :rolleyes: And that's not even getting into the "ready to go but..not!" junctions.

The management and delivery of this entire endeavour (and the knock-on effects to local traffic, commuting, lost productivity etc) has been piss poor from the start!

But, I won't hold my breath that any penalities will be imposed or that the Councils/NRA (or whatever they call themselves this week) will learn something from it.

Hard to disagree with one word You say here.

Speaking of penalties, is there any way of finding out if and when and how much penalties were incurred?

yannakis

I might have lost the valuable bit of info in the last few pages, but can I as, is J9a opening tomorrow 9 Dec or is it still unclear?

Cookiemunster

WishUWereHere wrote: »

Hard to disagree with one word You say here.

Speaking of penalties, is there any way of finding out if and when and how much penalties were incurred?

Penalties only kick in if a project goes overtime. As been stated many times before, this project hasn't overrun.

jmkennedyie

yannakis wrote: »

I might have lost the valuable bit of info in the last few pages, but can I as, is J9a opening tomorrow 9 Dec or is it still unclear?

There were rumours it will open mid Dec. Latest info is we and KCC have no date when it will open. Worst case April...or May... but of course we hope sooner

BuzzFish

_Kaiser_ wrote: »

So now it's NOT going to be back to 120 in the morning as was suggested here several times quoting sources within the project?

Another delay.. what a surprise! :rolleyes: And that's not even getting into the "ready to go but..not!" junctions.

The management and delivery of this entire endeavour (and the knock-on effects to local traffic, commuting, lost productivity etc) has been piss poor from the start!

But, I won't hold my breath that any penalities will be imposed or that the Councils/NRA (or whatever they call themselves this week) will learn something from it.

It will legally be 120 tomorrow. All the orders to restrict the speed expire tonight at midnight and Kildare Co.Co have not published any new ones, as they are legally obliged to do if they wish to continue the restrictions. Thats not to say the signage remains for a while until the contractor picks it up.

http://kildare.ie/CountyCouncil/PressReleasesAdverts/TemporaryRoadWorksSpeedLimitOrderM9M7N7.html

This Road Works Speed Limit Order will apply from Sunday, 1 December 2019 to Sunday, 8 December 2019 inclusive.

All other previous can be found here if you wish to review:
http://kildare.ie/countycouncil/index.html

If you need further evidence: http://www.m7upgrade.com/
"M7 Motorway Traffic Update - 22 November 2019
The 80Km per hour speed restriction will be removed on the M7 Motorway and will return to 120Km per hour on 09th December 2019. "

_Kaiser_

BuzzFish wrote: »

It will legally be 120 tomorrow. All the orders to restrict the speed expire tonight at midnight and Kildare Co.Co have not published any new ones, as they are legally obliged to do if they wish to continue the restrictions. Thats not to say the signage remains for a while until the contractor picks it up.

http://kildare.ie/CountyCouncil/PressReleasesAdverts/TemporaryRoadWorksSpeedLimitOrderM9M7N7.html

This Road Works Speed Limit Order will apply from Sunday, 1 December 2019 to Sunday, 8 December 2019 inclusive.

All other previous can be found here if you wish to review:
http://kildare.ie/countycouncil/index.html

If you need further evidence: http://www.m7upgrade.com/
"M7 Motorway Traffic Update - 22 November 2019
The 80Km per hour speed restriction will be removed on the M7 Motorway and will return to 120Km per hour on 09th December 2019. "

Well at least that's something then - although if the temp signage remains in place, expect confusion and chaos as those who rigidly stick to the posted limit (or usually significantly below it) continue to do so, while others who follow such things or even read those sites or this thread proceed at full motorway speeds.

Be careful out there folks!

_Kaiser_

Morning all.

Working from home myself today so haven't been on the roads yet. Are we back to 120 then? Junctions still closed?

Cazale

_Kaiser_ wrote:

Working from home myself today so haven't been on the roads yet. Are we back to 120 then? Junctions still closed?

I drove to Dublin this morning at 6:30am and there was no difference. Same signs, cones and speed limits etc

harr

Was on it this morning... no difference a lot of people doing the 120 or above and a lot doing 80 or below. Surely if it’s back to 120 as it should be today they should have been removing old speed signs the way it is now is just dangerous.

_Kaiser_

harr wrote: »

Was on it this morning... no difference a lot of people doing the 120 or above and a lot doing 80 or below. Surely if it’s back to 120 as it should be today they should have been removing old speed signs the way it is now is just dangerous.

Exactly what I said would happen last night

To be fair, the storm probably impacted on things but they should be out removing the now incorrect signage ASAP and replacing with the permanent 120 signs as soon as conditions permit.