Asitis2019 wrote: » I've been rereading the Irish Times articles from 2015 One thing that has always puzzled me over the years about this case is that it has always been assumed that he never made it home on the morning of December 8. Has it ever been disclosed why this is the case? For example, was his apartment examined? What about his flatmates? It is the one thing about the case that seems odd - that there has been no attention to his place of residence and his flatmates.
Fr Tod Umptious wrote: » [/b] People need to stop coming to this case with the mindset that they are the first people to come up with obvious questions. Of course his flat was examined, of course his flatmates were talked to. And from that it was concluded that he did not make it home. The last known whereabouts of Trevor was him heading east on Haddington Rd as per the CCTV. If the Gardai thought he had been home we would have been told. The only odd things about this case are 1. Trevor has vanished without a trace And 2. The man sheltering at the pillar of BOIAM has never come forward.
noodler wrote: » Watching the videos again, it's amazing how the guy from CCTV 1 managed to get ahead of Trevor in CCTV2 (outside the gate) even though he started behind him and the distance was so short. Not a new observation, just watching the video above where it's suggested there was two ppl but I don't see the second guy (if he existed) hiding at the gate pillar in CCTV2 without being seeing for a significant period of time
juno10353 wrote: » Okay, I have read the entire thread but am confused on one or two points. Where exactly was Trevor's work building. Ie Leeson st bridge or canal bank. The CCTV on baggot street bridge corner, is Trever heading south on Baggot street or east down haddington rd ie where is the camera facing. Sorry if this is already answered
jr86 wrote: » One thing that always struck me was the time it took TD to get from his office, to when he was last seen on CCTV footage. iirc it took him about 11 minutes, when it is very much a 6 minute walk - I've done it many times. I know he called his mate during this time but it wasn't a night to be stopping and hanging around, any call would be made while walking surely. And it didn't take him 5 minutes as it went straight to voicemail I'd be very surprised if TD didn't encounter and engage with someone during this walk. Whether someone sinister or not who knows
Lina Limited Workaholic wrote: » https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MznGtmseO2o This says he was in Alaska on some dodgy business and on return was tailed by three people. That they followed him to his apartment and the other gang members were waiting there. I don't believe that and had not heard it before. and the maker seems to think the garda shouldshare what they know with him or us as he says
castletownman wrote: » Just on the discrepancy of taking 11 mins to walk the usual 6 mins to where he was last seen, and the possibility he was on the phone. I don't know about anyone else, but if I have ever felt uneasy walking a street at night-time, or felt there was someone following me, I have often taken out my phone to "make" a phone call, as a safety blanket/aversion tactic. He may well have stopped for a cigarette or dipped under shelter for a couple of minutes too, again under the belief he was being followed in the hope they would walk by. Not beyond the realms of possibility.
noodler wrote: » Of course you don't believe it. You'd want to be mental to believe it.
20Wheel wrote: » I can not believe he wasn't waiting for Trevor, here's what occurred to me that didn't before. Take the weirdness of him stepping out from the pillar at the exact moment of Trevors arrival, after 30 mins, and just imagine if you will that Trevor never actually arrived. Edit out Trevor.
20Wheel wrote: » What you would then be left with is the following: a man stands at a pillar at 3am in the rain, then suddenly decides to just walk 20ft and look through a gate. For the craic. Then walk away. Like hmm let me just wait here, then walk 20ft round a corner, gawk through a fence and walk away. As you do. (but no, he had to take his fence gawking trip on the same night that a man within meters of him goes missing for years, never identifying himself to police in the meantime)
20Wheel wrote: » Back in reality, Man in black walks ahead (crucial) of Trevor who just so happens to be going the same direction as mib on his 3am fence gawking exercise. This is beyond coincidence, astronomical odds. He either knows Trevors route, or he's just into random fence gawking. The lack of a good reason to go fence gawking at 3am, and the timing of the call mib takes, seconds before Trevors arrival, all line up to premeditation. Its too much.
KWAG2019 wrote: » I see no reason to believe he was waiting for TD. You have to start with the fact that this is a police edited CCTV. It shows what they think is significant i.e. the interaction between TD and the man. They want that man to come forward to help with enquiries. TL:DR The interaction with the man at the pillar is what matters. It does not need to be premeditated to be significant.
KWAG2019 wrote: » I see no reason to believe he was waiting for TD. You have to start with the fact that this is a police edited CCTV. It shows what they think is significant i.e. the interaction between TD and the man. They want that man to come forward to help with enquiries. There are 28 minutes missing from the man's arrival to the arrival of TD. We don't know how many times or if at all he stepped out to the path and looked up and down. We don't know how many calls he made if any or how many calls he received if any. We don't know if he stepped out at the exact moment of other people's arrival or if others arrive before TD. And bear in mind that we don't know if that man was visible on CCTV or to patrol Gardai or residents or others who know that area at nighttime in weeks before TD's arrival or after it. When we don't know so much we can't build definitive accounts of events. Likelihoods yes: I can think of other likelihoods but they add nothing to the thread and are as unprovable as any other. There is no doubt that the interaction between TD and the man is of huge significance to the police. It keeps that significance if the meeting was random. It doesn't need a backstory to be created for it to be significant. It is significant because it happened. No. The interaction can be seen as just as significant without there being some premeditated plan involving others to target TD. Look at what we know. TD walks past on phone. Man has no reaction. Man looks around. Sees TD stopped? (I'm going by time delay to get to gate). Man approaches TD hears chat about security opening gate (?) and goes down into the next available gateway. (That is a busy junction) Interaction takes place. It was previously noted that there are passersby on other side of road and at least one car passes on road. Man seems to keep head down. Interaction ends. It was previously said that the man seemed to have little awareness of or was indifferent to presence of CCTV in both locations. I believe the police would have speculated about what persons are likely to be hanging around that area at that time. Their speculation would be based on knowledge of the area, access to more CCTV footage than we have and other intelligence. They have drawn attention to these few minutes again and they are hoping that by raising awareness of TD that someone will come forward. TL:DR The interaction with the man at the pillar is what matters. It does not need to be premeditated to be significant.
20Wheel wrote: » If you have additional CCTV footage then please go ahead and provide a link. In the meantime, given what we have, I can only reach the previous conclusions. I see a pattern that fits what the gardai have made available. If they made the full tapes available then those conclusions might change. But until they do I can't help but see a definite pattern. That which is available all fits very well with a set up. That which isn't available could feature UFOs for all we know. Go with what we have.
I believe the police would have speculated about what persons are likely to be hanging around that area at that time. Their speculation would be based on knowledge of the area, access to more CCTV footage than we have and other intelligence. They have drawn attention to these few minutes again and they are hoping that by raising awareness of TD that someone will come forward.
KWAG2019 wrote: » If the police did not release an image of him facing directly through the gate there are several possibilities: incompetence is one in that the CCTV was not processed properly. Or it could be that they already had a very good idea who he was.
Footage captured on CCTV from the bank entrance on that night was sent to Britain some months ago, and was re-examined, using specialised software to significantly enhance the existing images.
Fr Tod Umptious wrote: » It was an asset management office Not a commercial bank that would hold cash.
tdf7187 wrote: » we dont know that for sure. he was a smoker so he could have paused to light a cig and taken longer than usual due to weather.
tdf7187 wrote: » No, you're engaging in supposition here. You're right that the behaviour of the MIB is odd, but it's assuming too much in my view to say the phone call he took or made was anything directly got to do with Trevor. KWAG is the one being realistic. As per KWAG's post:
jr86 wrote: » He's not smoking in the CCTV footage passing Haddington road so I think that's unlikely, it'd only take a second to light up anyway not 5 minutes. There's nowhere to stand in either around there to stop and have a peaceful smoke, in any case on a wet night you'll always smoke and walk! The distance is so short for the weather to add 5 minutes to a walk between those 2 points. He's not exactly strolling either acc to the footage at Haddington Road. Unless the time is way off on the CCTV it's very significant imo Honestly if anyone is ever in that area I'd recommend them to walk between the two, it will give you a real appreciation as to how short it is. You'd honestly do it in 5 minutes if walking quickly. I took my time and it took me exactly 6 and that actually included having to wait to cross at the bridge, which wouldn't be an issue at nighttime
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