Trevor Deely case - new witness

The IT thread is essential. After the initial GARDA announcement about the witness it really is just wait and see.

noodler

[Deleted User] wrote: »

People should really read up on the case and get a good understanding of the case.

He didn’t go to the office to send emails at 3am. He went to get an umbrella as it was lashing rain.

While at the office, he saw his friend that was working night shift and asked him if he wanted to go for a tea. His friend said yes but needed a few mins to finish what he was doing.

Trevor logged on to his PC for a few mins while waiting. They then had tea together.

Can't link to the Irish times three part series enough times

Day Lewin

The question of "why remove the body from the scene?" is a good one and repays pondering.

If the crime took place in a room that was being used for eg, entrapment, drug supply, or intimidation, it might well be that the owners of the premises insisted on any such signs of crime being removed.
And it WAS the dead of night and filthy weather: easier to do it right there and then, than be stuck with the awkwardness of disposal later.

This all sounds a bit grim: yet, it appears to be that the Gardaí are thinking along these lines...at least, I think that is what the newspapers are implying.

Its kind of heart-breaking to think about it in such detail - the poor lad, and his poor family - I still hope for some justice, or a decent ending, for them.

People should really read up on the case and get a good understanding of the case.

He didn’t go to the office to send emails at 3am. He went to get an umbrella as it was lashing rain.

While at the office, he saw his friend that was working night shift and asked him if he wanted to go for a tea. His friend said yes but needed a few mins to finish what he was doing.

Trevor logged on to his PC for a few mins while waiting. They then had tea together.

andekwarhola

Pheonix10 wrote: »

It is a bit strange to go into work on your way home at 3am and check emails. Fair enough if he grabbed the brolly and left. It's a bit perplexing.

Probably mentioned before - certainly was on the old thread - but it was 19 years ago. In this era of smartphones, its easy to forget that email was a lot less ubiquitous then. Probably some people had blackberry phones but the majority of mobile phones would have been basic I would say. I had something similar to this at the time

I worked in IT at the time but didht actually have home internet. I wouldn't say that was uncommon. I could well imagine myself popping in to check email or similar if my route home took me past a still-open office like Trevor.

Muahahaha wrote: »

I think the Chapelizod thing was real in so far as it was a dumping ground for criminals.I dont think the informant was out to lead them on a wild goose chase, its more likely he named a main suspect and said he knew him to bury drugs/money/guns on that site. With the forensic expertise available to Gardai if a body had of been moved recently they would have known. Also guessing they had a cadaver dog with them who could have picked up a scent.

Its definitely strange that a killer would have gone to all the hassle of moving the body. It was back in 1999 so the fear of DNA wasnt around for them. But then you've to balance that against what seems to be the Gardais belief that this did happen. The Chapelizod search lasted 6 weeks and had dozens of Gardai working on it, they put huge resources and effort into it and you can only assume they were operating off credible information that matched up to other pieces of information they have.

DNA was around since late 80’s.

In gangland, a shooter steals a car. Then shoots his victim. Speeds away in stolen car and burns the car out. Then gets into another car and casually drives away. No evidence to be found, unless they mess up burning out the stolen car.

In Trevors case, it probably wasn’t pre meditated. A chance encounter they say. They couldn’t shoot someone and cause a scene and then be found or spotted in their own car. It’s possible they had to dispose of the body. Maybe he ended up in chapelizod.

The person responsible was probably afraid of getting ratted out so moved the body to a different location.

Not suggesting this is what happened, but just pointing out that there are many reasons why a person might want to get a rid of the body of the person they just murdered.

Muahahaha

Deleted User wrote: »

I do wonder if the chapelizod thing was real. Maybe he was there but the people involved moved him, knowing full well that someone could talk at any moment.

I think the Chapelizod thing was real in so far as it was a dumping ground for criminals.I dont think the informant was out to lead them on a wild goose chase, its more likely he named a main suspect and said he knew him to bury drugs/money/guns on that site. With the forensic expertise available to Gardai if a body had of been moved recently they would have known. Also guessing they had a cadaver dog with them who could have picked up a scent.

BDI wrote: »

Some bizarre theories here.

If somebody hit him in their car why would they get out, put him inside and drive off without anybody noticing?

Why not drive off. Rediculous.

You dispose of a body when it can be tied back to you. Even gangland people shoot people in the street and leave them there.

He either went in the water or went to a place that if he was found would link him to the killer.

Its definitely strange that a killer would have gone to all the hassle of moving the body. It was back in 1999 so the fear of DNA wasnt around for them. But then you've to balance that against what seems to be the Gardais belief that this did happen. The Chapelizod search lasted 6 weeks and had dozens of Gardai working on it, they put huge resources and effort into it and you can only assume they were operating off credible information that matched up to other pieces of information they have.

Coconut12

I was out that night and the weather was horrendous. I also went to the Spar on Baggot Street the next night after Buck Waleys and it was indeed open at 3/4am and serving food. There is no plausible theory for him going to the Spar on Bath Avenue that night in that weather .

TwoMonthsOff

BDI wrote: »

If she has a dump across a district line the garda is not allowed cover her with his coat

But can he give her his hat to sh*t in?

snotboogie wrote: »

You are really asking why somebody would move a body after a murder? Obviously the person is going to the bother to avoid a murder conviction.

Yes we are asking that because it reveals a good deal. If you think of some of the ways in which people meet violent death and bodies are discovered then you will see that moving a body doesn't happen that often. When it does there is something to lose; perhaps as you say a conviction for murder is enough that people want to avoid but the act of moving a dead body is itself risky and may increase chances of discovery.

Destruction of evidence is another possibility be it DNA or ballistic. DNA evidence was in use I think from the late 80's but I could be a few years off the mark there.

Staying with the question though is interesting: why not just leave remains on the street? What links the remains to the attacker? Was it necessary to move remains from a building rather than a street?

And why go to those risks a second time which is what the poster was referring to? It seems unlikely that it would be done a second time.

BDI

Omackeral wrote: »

Across State Lines, :pac: He could only arrest her if he had his hat on.

If she has a dump across a district line the garda is not allowed cover her with his coat

Snickers Man wrote: »

I believe the canal was advantageous for two reasons: given the number of bridges cars could circle around for ages looking for suitable, er, merchandise. And also, the canal itself was a boundary between two police districts so that if a cop was moving in to harass or arrest a girl she could just toddle over the bridge and thumb her nose at him because he couldn't follow her. That's all gone now of course. I can't remember the last time I saw a steetwalker. Mobile phones and social media have made it much easier to procure services, without having to drive around in the freezing cold and pouring rain.

Across State Lines, :pac: He could only arrest her if he had his hat on.

sugarman wrote: »

I think the new information they received 2 years ago was pretty credible, the person waived the €100k reward and told them on back of a guilty conscious where he was allegedly taken to, what happened (shot) and where he was said to be buried. I mean, why else would anyone make that kind of thing up?

Similar happened in the case of Marioara Rostas, an innocent 18 year old girl. There was no 100K up for a reward but a person was granted immunity in the case and took the Gardai to find her body in a shallow grave in the Wicklow Mountains. Nobody was ever convicted of the murder but the family got some aspect of closure from it and were taken by the Gardai to the site and prayed there.

As a side note, I've heard the same name mentioned as being involved in both cases. I won't pretend to know if this individual had anything to with Trevor's fate but I'd be certain enough re: Marioara.

Snickers Man

Raconteuse wrote: »

My brother lived and worked in the area at the time and he said you'd go to sleep at night seeing Trevor's face. Excellent work by those who loved him.

This is true. I live in the area. Those posters were there for years. On every tree and lamppost.

As an aside. I am amused by the depiction of the area then, and now, as a seedy dangerous vice-ridden cesspit. True, you used to see a lot of particularly unalluring prostitutes plying their trade on the canal. They were there for years.

I believe the canal was advantageous for two reasons: given the number of bridges cars could circle around for ages looking for suitable, er, merchandise. And also, the canal itself was a boundary between two police districts so that if a cop was moving in to harass or arrest a girl she could just toddle over the bridge and thumb her nose at him because he couldn't follow her. That's all gone now of course. I can't remember the last time I saw a steetwalker. Mobile phones and social media have made it much easier to procure services, without having to drive around in the freezing cold and pouring rain.

And yes. Where you get hookers you get some dodgy creepy male hangers on, both in terms of the girls' management and her clentele. But the girls themslves were grand. Never a bother

snotboogie

Fr Tod Umptious wrote: »

[/b]

But why ?

Why go to the bother of moving the body of a guy that has no links to criminally and that many presume died by tragic accident on the way home from a Christmas party on a wet night ?

This is not Joe Peschi burying bodies in Goodfellas and having to dig them up again.

As others have said if there was an altercation and Trevor died as a result of it why go to all the bother.

You are really asking why somebody would move a body after a murder? Obviously the person is going to the bother to avoid a murder conviction.

That's not reserved for American gangster movies, Franno did it in love hate too

Fr Tod Umptious wrote: »

[/b]

But why ?

Why go to the bother of moving the body of a guy that has no links to criminally and that many presume died by tragic accident on the way home from a Christmas party on a wet night ?

This is not Joe Peschi burying bodies in Goodfellas and having to dig them up again.

As others have said if there was an altercation and Trevor died as a result of it why go to all the bother.

I’m inclined to think the same about moving remains unless done very shortly afterwards to take power away from an accomplice. Staying with this theory the main mover in this has isolated themself by their actions. People can end up in terrible situations through following someone whose frightened nature is masked by violence. In time they see through them. Everyone deserves their final resting place known to their family.

sugarman wrote: »

I think the new information they received 2 years ago was pretty credible, the person waived the €100k reward and told them on back of a guilty conscious where he was allegedly taken to, what happened (shot) and where he was said to be buried. I mean, why else would anyone make that kind of thing up?

Now theres another new witness thats said to back that up.

Theyre just missing the evidence.. He must have been buried elsewhere or perhaps moved over the years.

But why ?

Why go to the bother of moving the body of a guy that has no links to criminally and that many presume died by tragic accident on the way home from a Christmas party on a wet night ?

This is not Joe Peschi burying bodies in Goodfellas and having to dig them up again.

As others have said if there was an altercation and Trevor died as a result of it why go to all the bother.

Man Vs ManUre

Fr Tod Umptious wrote: »

Possibly, people did not have access to internet back then like they have today.

Less likely.

Even less likely.

He was a junior IT guy in an asset management company.
He was not the kind of person that would have access to much of value in the overall scheme of things.

Back then it was a lot easier to access your work offices after hours than it is now. Sure there was security and access cards and all that and only staff would get in, but there wasn’t the same restrictions there us now with staff having to get extra mgmt approvals for after hours access. It wouldn’t have been odd to drop into the office if it was close, even if it was to just have a coffee or something. Some people would even drop into a city centre office and sleep at desk for few hrs and then get a 1st bus home in the morning.

Snickers Man

tdf7187 wrote: »

the Lr Baggot Street area late at night was quite dodgy back then. The Spar used to be 24 hour or close to it and you'd get strange characters hanging around.

Yeah. They were called taxi drivers

But that was UPPER Baggot St.

And that Spar has gone now anyway. Being named in the papers as one of the outlets hit with an FSAI closure order because of a "significant rodent infestation" a couple of years ago probably didn't help.

KWAG2019 wrote: »

The key thing remains the absence of any physical trace. If you concentrate on a theory of violent altercation ( which includes several possibilities) the real question is (leaving aside a clash leading to an accidental entry into water)why dispose of the body? Why is that necessary?

A mugger runs. A hit and run driver runs. A one punch attacker runs. There is a different dynamic in play here.

If you leave the violent altercation aside and remember it took Trevor’s family to save the CCTV that is his last sighting, then other equally tragic outcomes come to the fore.

There seem to be well founded Garda suspicions about who was involved. I hope that a witness will settle it. If someone denied TD a proper resting place then it was an act of despicable cowardice.

Conor Whooley recently identified in a welsh graveyard after 36 years missing comes to mind.

https://www.irishexaminer.com/breakingnews/ireland/after-36-years-of-wondering-what-happened-to-him-conor-whooleys-family-finally-know-967979.html

Sad either way.

The key thing remains the absence of any physical trace. If you concentrate on a theory of violent altercation ( which includes several possibilities) the real question is (leaving aside a clash leading to an accidental entry into water)why dispose of the body? Why is that necessary?

A mugger runs. A hit and run driver runs. A one punch attacker runs. There is a different dynamic in play here.

If you leave the violent altercation aside and remember it took Trevor’s family to save the CCTV that is his last sighting, then other equally tragic outcomes come to the fore.

There seem to be well founded Garda suspicions about who was involved. I hope that a witness will settle it. If someone denied TD a proper resting place then it was an act of despicable cowardice.

wyrn

Just spotted this article from a couple of days ago. Not sure if it was in the original link, I couldn't get past the pay wall. There's a new imitative to display pictures of missing people on Deliveroo backpacks in Dublin and Cork during the month of December. It's part of the 'Bring Them Home' campaign to mark National Missing Persons Day. https://www.todayfm.com/news/pictures-missing-people-appear-deliveroo-backpacks-december-932976

I hope this initiative helps jogs someones memory. Those poor families.

wyrn wrote: »

The OP posted a new article that there's a new witness. It wasn't for speculation but to highlight that someone has come forward. Also the anniversary is on Sunday.

A new Witness which media claim supports AGS's theory of Trevor being murdered after a row with a criminal gang.

wyrn

smelly sock wrote: »

Well this one should be shutdown to then. What's the point of it?

The OP posted a new article that there's a new witness. It wasn't for speculation but to highlight that someone has come forward. Also the anniversary is on Sunday.

Fr Tod Umptious wrote: »

Connecting Trevor with prostitutes, drug dealers, money laundering etc is what got the last thread rightly shut down and ultimately deleted.
And dead right too.

Well this one should be shutdown to then. What's the point of it?

smelly sock wrote: »

So we can only discuss Alaskan links and BOIAM money laundering but the more probable scenarios are off limits?

Again as one poster said no shame in it and its his business.

Connecting Trevor with prostitutes, drug dealers, money laundering etc is what got the last thread rightly shut down and ultimately deleted.
And dead right too.

Augeo wrote: »

Ah stop please, that's so disrespectful.

Things change, the suspect might well have less control or whatever over whoever is supplying the info.

So we can only discuss Alaskan links and BOIAM money laundering but the more probable scenarios are off limits?

Again as one poster said no shame in it and its his business.