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Trevor Deely case - new witness

tdf7187

There was a previous lengthy thread on the case but it was locked for review and has yet to be reopened.

https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/new-witness-backs-up-gardas-theory-that-deely-killed-in-row-with-gang-38755889.html

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Fiftyfilthy

KWAG2019 wrote: »

There are reasons a single male would be in one spot for that long that would have nothing to do with whether TD came along or not.

In Ireland in 2000 premeditated murder and disposal of a body belongs to paramilitarism. There was a ceasefire since 1998 and there is no known reason that TD would be targeted. To my mind it’s a matter of looking at the simplest answer rather than imagining exotic possibilities.

There are a few very obvious possibilities. TD may have wished to disappear and done so. He may have entered water and his body swept out to sea. He may have had a violent altercation, died as a result and because of where he died and in whose company he died his body was disposed of. He may have been knocked down and his body disposed of.

I think there was a violent confrontation. His body was disposed of because the person involved had reason to fear Garda involvement much more than most. It threatened him particularly. There is something about this person that made them deeply frightened of the consequences of Garda involvement. It’s an unusual aspect of the case. Violent late night confrontations that end in death happen but can sometimes be manslaughter rather than murder. There was a huge risk to this person that prompted such a frightened response. It’s very odd.

There’s your little story, you speculate he was murdered. You think the murderer ‘feared’ the Garda?

No ****, most would if they had committed a murder

Yes, discussing the clothing on actual cctv foortage is ridiculous but fantasy stories of murder is ok based on your thoughts .....

Glad you cleared that up !

EmmetSpiceland

Pops_20 wrote: »

The reason the guards never shared or mentioned this footage is because they ruled out his work colleagues already. Sharing the footage with the public won't help any further.

That footage has the only image of the MIB looking directly in through the gate.

Why would they not have released that at the time? Or mention that someone, other than colleagues, waited there?

All that was said was that Trevor had a “brief conversation” with an unknown man at the gate.

It’s truly bizarre that for so many years it was never mentioned that a guy waited for 30-40 minutes, moves when TD arrives, follows him to the gate, speaks to him, waits some more and then leaves. The man didn’t appear to have any interest in the work colleagues when they arrive and leave.

Whether the MIB was involved in Trevor’s disappearance or not, he was certainly behaving in a very suspicious manner.

DarTipp

Pops_20 wrote: »

"They" are Trevor's work colleagues. They were trying to get in the gate just the same as he was.

They don't remember anything about the man at the gate because they were after a skinful of drink and there probably wasn't anything very remarkable about him. Even less so to be remembered after alcohol consumed.

The reason the guards never shared or mentioned this footage is because they ruled out his work colleagues already. Sharing the footage with the public won't help any further.

they (2 of them) were there looking through the gates/at the gates at the same time as the first MIB , they surely would have had some interaction ?

[Deleted User]

DarTipp wrote: »

they (2 of them) were there looking through the gates/at the gates at the same time as the first MIB , they surely would have had some interaction ?

They might have had some interactions, but they were probably totally inconsequential.

Remember at the time they talked to him Trevor was not missing.

It was a full 4 days later that Trevor was missing.

0gac3yjefb5sv7

Pops_20 wrote: »

"They" are Trevor's work colleagues. They were trying to get in the gate just the same as he was.

They don't remember anything about the man at the gate because they were after a skinful of drink and there probably wasn't anything very remarkable about him. Even less so to be remembered after alcohol consumed.

The reason the guards never shared or mentioned this footage is because they ruled out his work colleagues already. Sharing the footage with the public won't help any further.

Fair point. I know they weren't involved but it's strange that more colleagues were trying to get into the office that night. It's not standard to head back to your office at 3am when you'll be in at 9/10am the next morning?

Raconteuse

snotboogie wrote: »

Trevor does not look comfortable at all in the CCTV when interacting with the man outside the bank. Look at the video, Trevor takes an immediate defensive stance when confronted by the man, he grabs the gate with one hand, separating himself from the man in black and hurriedly fumbles with the keys to the gate while continuing to look him even after the man turns away.

To be fair, anyone would be uncomfortable. A stranger right next to you at half 3 in the morning when you're entering your workplace - any workplace let alone a bank! I'd be in a hurry to get in and get the gate locked behind me too.

I'm actually surprised Trevor didn't look even more uneasy.

[Deleted User]

Pheonix10 wrote: »

Fair point. I know they weren't involved but it's strange that more colleagues were trying to get into the office that night. It's not standard to head back to your office at 3am when you'll be in at 9/10am the next morning?

No taxi service.

Colleague A will stay with colleague B that lives closer to the office rather than try head home.

Colleague A and B go back to office to collect colleague A's gear bag before heading to colleague B's apartment.

Plus it's a 24/7 work place.
Colleague C is working and others call in to shoot the breeze about the Christmas party.

They are young, they work together, they hang out together.

Like everything else in this case, there is very little remarkable or out of the ordinary about what the people we know about do and don't do.

[Deleted User]

Raconteuse wrote: »

To be fair, anyone would be uncomfortable. A stranger right next to you at half 3 in the morning when you're entering your workplace - any workplace let alone a bank! I'd be in a hurry to get in and get the gate locked behind me too.

I'm actually surprised Trevor didn't look even more uneasy.

It was an asset management office
Not a commercial bank that would hold cash.

BDI

Some bizarre theories here.

If somebody hit him in their car why would they get out, put him inside and drive off without anybody noticing?

Why not drive off. Rediculous.

You dispose of a body when it can be tied back to you. Even gangland people shoot people in the street and leave them there.

He either went in the water or went to a place that if he was found would link him to the killer.

If he was killed the killer didn’t want it possible to prove he was dead. This is usually done when the killer is closely linked to the victim or the killer is worried about all the dna all over his kitchen and needs time.

It’s likely he was coerced into going to a knocking shop with better looking girls than the drug addicts in that area. The robber then planned on getting his bank card taking the limit you can take out in a day that night then probably the next night after beating the code out of him. This happens and has been known to happen in the area.

Tiger kidnappings and organized murder by people on their Christmas party are totally unbelievable and Alaskan vendettas are rediculous. Fella was probably waiting at the gate because he was trying to trick one of the stream of drunk posh looking men that seemed to be going from the pub to the office all evening into heading to his flat.

NuttyMcNutty

Maybe the person has come forward because the suspect is currently locked up for life.

[Deleted User]

Pheonix10 wrote: »

Fair point. I know they weren't involved but it's strange that more colleagues were trying to get into the office that night. It's not standard to head back to your office at 3am when you'll be in at 9/10am the next morning?

I’m a bit puzzled myself by this. Going into the office at 3am or so after a night out. Was it to use email facilities which were then not so readily available outside work-emailing girlfriends, boyfriends or overseas relatives? Was it to catch up on some element of work missed on account of leaving early the evening before? Was there some slightly unapproved work practice going on, that the Gardaí left out of the account because it had no connection whatsoever with what happened?

I am always slightly skeptical about the narrative that seems to say it had nothing to do with his work/workplace other than to do with physical location of events.

0gac3yjefb5sv7

[Deleted User] wrote: »

I’m a bit puzzled myself by this. Going into the office at 3am or so after a night out. Was it to use email facilities which were then not so readily available outside work-emailing girlfriends, boyfriends or overseas relatives? Was it to catch up on some element of work missed on account of leaving early the evening before? Was there some slightly unapproved work practice going on, that the Gardaí left out of the account because it had no connection whatsoever with what happened?

I am always slightly skeptical about the narrative that seems to say it had nothing to do with his work/workplace other than to do with physical location of events.

It is a bit strange to go into work on your way home at 3am and check emails. Fair enough if he grabbed the brolly and left. It's a bit perplexing.

[Deleted User]

BDI wrote: »

................

It’s likely he was coerced into going to a knocking shop with better looking girls than the drug addicts in that area. The robber then planned on getting his bank card taking the limit you can take out in a day that night then probably the next night after beating the code out of him. This happens and has been known to happen in the area. .............

Ah stop please, that's so disrespectful.

NuttyMcNutty wrote: »

Maybe the person has come forward because the suspect is currently locked up for life.

Things change, the suspect might well have less control or whatever over whoever is supplying the info.

wyrn

Deleted User wrote: »

I’m a bit puzzled myself by this. Going into the office at 3am or so after a night out. Was it to use email facilities which were then not so readily available outside work-emailing girlfriends, boyfriends or overseas relatives? Was it to catch up on some element of work missed on account of leaving early the evening before? Was there some slightly unapproved work practice going on, that the Gardaí left out of the account because it had no connection whatsoever with what happened?

I am always slightly skeptical about the narrative that seems to say it had nothing to do with his work/workplace other than to do with physical location of events.

He popped in and had a coffee I think. He also got an umbrella and it was on his way home, so it wasn't that unusual. Also back then, we didn't have the internet as widely available, so he could have been checking his emails too.

His 2 work colleagues stopped in because one had to grab their gym bag. There was no taxis that night and the other lad (I think) decided to crash with him for the night.

[Deleted User]

Deleted User wrote: »

I’m a bit puzzled myself by this. Going into the office at 3am or so after a night out. Was it to use email facilities which were then not so readily available outside work-emailing girlfriends, boyfriends or overseas relatives? Was it to catch up on some element of work missed on account of leaving early the evening before? Was there some slightly unapproved work practice going on, that the Gardaí left out of the account because it had no connection whatsoever with what happened?

Pheonix10 wrote: »

It is a bit strange to go into work on your way home at 3am and check emails. Fair enough if he grabbed the brolly and left. It's a bit perplexing.

It's been explained many times that his colleague was on a night shift in there at the time he dropped in. Not too outrageous to think he dropped in to say hello given the proximity and fill the work pal in on some of the xmas party craic.

BDI

Augeo wrote: »

Ah stop please, that's so disrespectful.

Things change, the suspect might well have less control or whatever over whoever is supplying the info.

He was a young single man working away from home. There’s no shame in it. Happens up and down Europe way more than you’d imagine. He’d a few soups on him and was in a red light district.

smelly sock

BDI wrote: »

Some bizarre theories here.

If somebody hit him in their car why would they get out, put him inside and drive off without anybody noticing?

Why not drive off. Rediculous.

You dispose of a body when it can be tied back to you. Even gangland people shoot people in the street and leave them there.

He either went in the water or went to a place that if he was found would link him to the killer.

If he was killed the killer didn’t want it possible to prove he was dead. This is usually done when the killer is closely linked to the victim or the killer is worried about all the dna all over his kitchen and needs time.

It’s likely he was coerced into going to a knocking shop with better looking girls than the drug addicts in that area. The robber then planned on getting his bank card taking the limit you can take out in a day that night then probably the next night after beating the code out of him. This happens and has been known to happen in the area.

Tiger kidnappings and organized murder by people on their Christmas party are totally unbelievable and Alaskan vendettas are rediculous. Fella was probably waiting at the gate because he was trying to trick one of the stream of drunk posh looking men that seemed to be going from the pub to the office all evening into heading to his flat.

Yeh. You can't rule out anything but the more people focus on outlandish theories of Alaskan involvement, Trevor being involved in an attempt to embezzle funds from BOI with a criminal organised gang or some odd ball standing on a busy street looking through a gate in the wet being a mastermind of avoiding detection the more likely this case won't be solved.

One thing we know for certain is Trevor was last seen in a notorious red light district where undesirables and criminal gangs carry out business. We know Trevor was full of booze also. People seem more fixated on trying to link someone who only came to light a few years ago after footage had been cleaned up. I mean if this was in any way connected or suspicious someone else at the gates that night would remember him. Focus on what we really know. That's the location and the criminal element and their business which they practice there. As hard as it maybe to swallow this is the most likely or all outcomes. We also know Trevor took a more indirect route home in a darker more uninhabited street.

[Deleted User]

Deleted User wrote: »

I’m a bit puzzled myself by this. Going into the office at 3am or so after a night out. Was it to use email facilities which were then not so readily available outside work-emailing girlfriends, boyfriends or overseas relatives? .

Possibly, people did not have access to internet back then like they have today.

Deleted User wrote: »

Was it to catch up on some element of work missed on account of leaving early the evening before? .

Less likely.

Deleted User wrote: »

Was there some slightly unapproved work practice going on.

Even less likely.

Deleted User wrote: »

I am always slightly skeptical about the narrative that seems to say it had nothing to do with his work/workplace other than to do with physical location of events.

He was a junior IT guy in an asset management company.
He was not the kind of person that would have access to much of value in the overall scheme of things.

smelly sock

Augeo wrote: »

Ah stop please, that's so disrespectful.

Things change, the suspect might well have less control or whatever over whoever is supplying the info.

So we can only discuss Alaskan links and BOIAM money laundering but the more probable scenarios are off limits?

Again as one poster said no shame in it and its his business.

[Deleted User]

smelly sock wrote: »

So we can only discuss Alaskan links and BOIAM money laundering but the more probable scenarios are off limits?

Again as one poster said no shame in it and its his business.

Connecting Trevor with prostitutes, drug dealers, money laundering etc is what got the last thread rightly shut down and ultimately deleted.
And dead right too.

smelly sock

Fr Tod Umptious wrote: »

Connecting Trevor with prostitutes, drug dealers, money laundering etc is what got the last thread rightly shut down and ultimately deleted.
And dead right too.

Well this one should be shutdown to then. What's the point of it?

wyrn

smelly sock wrote: »

Well this one should be shutdown to then. What's the point of it?

The OP posted a new article that there's a new witness. It wasn't for speculation but to highlight that someone has come forward. Also the anniversary is on Sunday.

smelly sock

wyrn wrote: »

The OP posted a new article that there's a new witness. It wasn't for speculation but to highlight that someone has come forward. Also the anniversary is on Sunday.

A new Witness which media claim supports AGS's theory of Trevor being murdered after a row with a criminal gang.

wyrn

Just spotted this article from a couple of days ago. Not sure if it was in the original link, I couldn't get past the pay wall. There's a new imitative to display pictures of missing people on Deliveroo backpacks in Dublin and Cork during the month of December. It's part of the 'Bring Them Home' campaign to mark National Missing Persons Day. https://www.todayfm.com/news/pictures-missing-people-appear-deliveroo-backpacks-december-932976

I hope this initiative helps jogs someones memory. Those poor families.

KWAG2019

The key thing remains the absence of any physical trace. If you concentrate on a theory of violent altercation ( which includes several possibilities) the real question is (leaving aside a clash leading to an accidental entry into water)why dispose of the body? Why is that necessary?

A mugger runs. A hit and run driver runs. A one punch attacker runs. There is a different dynamic in play here.

If you leave the violent altercation aside and remember it took Trevor’s family to save the CCTV that is his last sighting, then other equally tragic outcomes come to the fore.

There seem to be well founded Garda suspicions about who was involved. I hope that a witness will settle it. If someone denied TD a proper resting place then it was an act of despicable cowardice.

smelly sock

KWAG2019 wrote: »

The key thing remains the absence of any physical trace. If you concentrate on a theory of violent altercation ( which includes several possibilities) the real question is (leaving aside a clash leading to an accidental entry into water)why dispose of the body? Why is that necessary?

A mugger runs. A hit and run driver runs. A one punch attacker runs. There is a different dynamic in play here.

If you leave the violent altercation aside and remember it took Trevor’s family to save the CCTV that is his last sighting, then other equally tragic outcomes come to the fore.

There seem to be well founded Garda suspicions about who was involved. I hope that a witness will settle it. If someone denied TD a proper resting place then it was an act of despicable cowardice.

Conor Whooley recently identified in a welsh graveyard after 36 years missing comes to mind.

https://www.irishexaminer.com/breakingnews/ireland/after-36-years-of-wondering-what-happened-to-him-conor-whooleys-family-finally-know-967979.html

Sad either way.

Snickers Man

tdf7187 wrote: »

the Lr Baggot Street area late at night was quite dodgy back then. The Spar used to be 24 hour or close to it and you'd get strange characters hanging around.

Yeah. They were called taxi drivers

But that was UPPER Baggot St.

And that Spar has gone now anyway. Being named in the papers as one of the outlets hit with an FSAI closure order because of a "significant rodent infestation" a couple of years ago probably didn't help.

Man Vs ManUre

Fr Tod Umptious wrote: »

Possibly, people did not have access to internet back then like they have today.

Less likely.

Even less likely.

He was a junior IT guy in an asset management company.
He was not the kind of person that would have access to much of value in the overall scheme of things.

Back then it was a lot easier to access your work offices after hours than it is now. Sure there was security and access cards and all that and only staff would get in, but there wasn’t the same restrictions there us now with staff having to get extra mgmt approvals for after hours access. It wouldn’t have been odd to drop into the office if it was close, even if it was to just have a coffee or something. Some people would even drop into a city centre office and sleep at desk for few hrs and then get a 1st bus home in the morning.

[Deleted User]

sugarman wrote: »

I think the new information they received 2 years ago was pretty credible, the person waived the €100k reward and told them on back of a guilty conscious where he was allegedly taken to, what happened (shot) and where he was said to be buried. I mean, why else would anyone make that kind of thing up?

Now theres another new witness thats said to back that up.

Theyre just missing the evidence.. He must have been buried elsewhere or perhaps moved over the years.

But why ?

Why go to the bother of moving the body of a guy that has no links to criminally and that many presume died by tragic accident on the way home from a Christmas party on a wet night ?

This is not Joe Peschi burying bodies in Goodfellas and having to dig them up again.

As others have said if there was an altercation and Trevor died as a result of it why go to all the bother.

KWAG2019

Fr Tod Umptious wrote: »

[/b]

But why ?

Why go to the bother of moving the body of a guy that has no links to criminally and that many presume died by tragic accident on the way home from a Christmas party on a wet night ?

This is not Joe Peschi burying bodies in Goodfellas and having to dig them up again.

As others have said if there was an altercation and Trevor died as a result of it why go to all the bother.

I’m inclined to think the same about moving remains unless done very shortly afterwards to take power away from an accomplice. Staying with this theory the main mover in this has isolated themself by their actions. People can end up in terrible situations through following someone whose frightened nature is masked by violence. In time they see through them. Everyone deserves their final resting place known to their family.