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Trevor Deely case - new witness

tdf7187

There was a previous lengthy thread on the case but it was locked for review and has yet to be reopened.

https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/new-witness-backs-up-gardas-theory-that-deely-killed-in-row-with-gang-38755889.html

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[Deleted User]

It’s hard to think of a reason for why the man was standing outside BOI for so long in the rain. He couldn’t have known that Trevor would be returning to work to grab an umbrella. Trevor probably didn’t even know that himself until he left the bar.

Yet I’m sure many people passed by before Trevor arrived. And the man did seem to be aware when Trevor was coming.

And he never came forward. Strange.

farmchoice

iamstop wrote: »

With the tech we have now surely we can test the possibility of a body falling into the canal or the Dodder and see where it ends up.

Get a dummy like 'Buster' from Myth Busters. Make it same build and buoyancy as Trevor would have been. Slap a few trackers on it. Wait until there is similar weather conditions to that night and dump it into a likely entry point. The tracker will tell you if it would have made it past the locks on the canal and if it would have made it out to sea. Yeah, chances are the tides won't be the same but give it long enough to see where it gets to.

just on this, its actually much more difficult then people imagine to find bodies in rivers and other bodies of water.
where i live now we have a river and unfortunately people occasionally commit suicide by jumping in. sometimes the bodies are found and sometimes even though diving teams are in the river within 6 hours the bodies are never found. recently one search went on for 5 days with a helicopter with specialized equipment and diving team every day for 3 weeks, teams searched the river banks for months and the body was never found. the diving teams even came back the next spring and still nothing.

i'm not talking about the canal, if he went into the canal he would have been found. either the canal basin or the dodder. back then the only reason anyone would have gone near the canal basin was if the planned to jump in.
in fact it was such a run down deserted part of the city a lot of people didn't even know it was there. unlike today nobody ever went near it.

reg114

Just a theory to go with all the others, but the 8th of December 2000 was a Friday which was bin collection day in Ballsbridge at the time. When you walk down Haddington road you can access the canal by walking down Percy place (the back of Smyths pub), at the back of the Hiberian Insurance building there would be large industrial sized bins on wheels every bin day, is it not a possibility that such a bin could have been used as an impromptu way of disposing a body. Perhaps an altercation took place, the victim was subdued and placed hurriedly into one of these bins, several hours later on the morning of the 8th the bin was emptied into the bin lorry unbeknownst to the bin men and contents never seen again? It might explain why a body has never shown up.

DarTipp

boombang wrote: »

While this theory does probably need two men in the car (in order to load a body), I think it's the most plausible. I fully agree that the Leeson St area had loads of shady types and the gate footage is ominous, but death by drink driving has to be by far the most likely scenario.

ya it is very and a more likely one, a taxi strike plus a really bad night weather wise and lots of Christmas parties on meaning people taking the chance to drive home etc. it cuts out the other theories including my own ones where we know that trevor was a decent lad and that he didn't or wasn't in any trouble at work or outside that we know of

[Deleted User]

Beechwoodspark wrote: »

To me the man who could solve a lot of what was going on that night is the man hanging around the entrance of TDs office.
.............

Raconteuse wrote: »

It seems like he was involved imo.

Yes, no doubt. AGS were and are very keen to identify him etc, there's literally no doubt about that.

DarTipp

Fr Tod Umptious wrote: »

The colleague has said that Trevor did not mention him.

which would indicate that trevor might have known him or had met in bucks, he did look dodgy and him waiting around for over 30mins in really bad weather , and trevor did sound like someone who would report anyone or anything dodgy

yaboya1

tdf7187 wrote: »

They were not the type of prostitute that you'd take home to your mother, put it that way.

As opposed to the type of prostitute you would take home to your mother???

[Deleted User]

yaboya1 wrote: »

As opposed to the type of prostitute you would take home to your mother???

Ok, totally off topic. He clearly means they were rough as fook and raggedy ole bags or else obvious junkies. Like, they weren't students or hot yummie mummies out doing a few BJs to fund Christmas who spent the other 51 weeks of the year studying / "normal" lifeing.

TheW1zard

Just a point to make about which way he went etc.
I've lived in Dublin all my life, not in town, and I still get lost finding a particular bar or shop. I've even got lost while really drunk around the canal. I regularly google map while in town

So the point I'm making is maybe he only knew the one way to get home, especially late at night in the rain.

Beechwoodspark

DarTipp wrote: »

which would indicate that trevor might have known him or had met in bucks, he did look dodgy and him waiting around for over 30mins in really bad weather , and trevor did sound like someone who would report anyone or anything dodgy

Just a thought. Could the loitering man have been in contact with someone on leeson st who rang him once TD was heading his way?

It’s beyond coincidence that yer man takes a call then sees TD heading up Wilton place and then steps out to talk to him

[Deleted User]

I do wonder if the chapelizod thing was real. Maybe he was there but the people involved moved him, knowing full well that someone could talk at any moment.

smelly sock

Ffs. This thread is descending into realms of off the wall whack job conspiracy theories again. It always seems to attract the sort who want something like an alien abduction or Trevor to have been assasinated by a hitman for hire fron Alaska.

Bunny Colvin

Omackeral wrote: »

What about the possibility of a drunk driver hitting him? Christmas party season in full swing. No taxis that night so some fool decides to drive into town. Drink driving probably not as taboo 20 years ago as it is now to some people. Bad conditions coupled with poor visibility and a drunk fella maybe walking on the road. Maybe this hypothetical driver had a passenger with them. Possible enough.

I think the Gardaí were looking at that theory. To me it's the most plausible.

0gac3yjefb5sv7

Most likely it's something to shady to do with the man in black waiting outside. Especially as he has never come forward. It seems Trevor may know him though as:

He doesn't look shaken when the guy is at the gate with him after following him there.

He doesn't tell his work colleague about a guy outside

He also walks out to the middle of the path after putting up his umbrella as if to check for anyone left or right of him instead of just going left

runningbuddy

Bunny Colvin wrote: »

I think the Gardaí were looking at that theory. To me it's the most plausible.

I think this too. I was on my work xmas party that night. Town was absolute mayhem due to taxi strike. His poor family. Absolutely no closure

snotboogie

Pheonix10 wrote: »

Most likely it's something to shady to do with the man in black waiting outside. Especially as he has never come forward. It seems Trevor may know him though as:

He doesn't look shaken when the guy is at the gate with him after following him there.

He doesn't tell his work colleague about a guy outside

He also walks out to the middle of the path after putting up his umbrella as if to check for anyone left or right of him instead of just going left

Trevor does not look comfortable at all in the CCTV when interacting with the man outside the bank. Look at the video, Trevor takes an immediate defensive stance when confronted by the man, he grabs the gate with one hand, separating himself from the man in black and hurriedly fumbles with the keys to the gate while continuing to look him even after the man turns away.

Ghosteen

Terrible for Trevor's family after all these years, not getting any closure. If I was a family member I'd find a lot of the speculation on this thread upsetting I would say.

smelly sock

snotboogie wrote: »

Trevor does not look comfortable at all in the CCTV when interacting with the man outside the bank. Look at the video, Trevor takes an immediate defensive stance when confronted by the man, he grabs the gate with one hand, separating himself from the man in black and hurriedly fumbles with the keys to the gate while continuing to look him even after the man turns away.

He also had a clatter of drink taken.

passatman86

Imo it looks to me TD disappearance was in relation to some kind of theft , whether it be his bellongings or linked to his workplace is yet to be discovered

Fiftyfilthy

The men in the video wouldn’t appear immediately to me , to be the usual scum lurking down there . More likely to be in tracksuits and trainers etc than black shoes and trousers

So possibly men after being on a night out ?

Says in the video that it took td 11 mins to walk a 6 min walk . Could be he was propositioned and declined

If a prostitute is out after 4am in weather like that she is desperate to pay someone she owes or for drugs that she needs for the next day

The man followed with intention to rob him

Just can’t tie in the clothing of the men to a typical pimp etc

I’m not for one moment saying td had any involvement with the women in that area but could have been propositioned

As will be pointed out , zero evidence that any working girls spoke to him but that doesn’t mean one didn’t. Might not want to come forward to admit working down there etc

[Deleted User]

Fiftyfilthy wrote: »

The men in the video wouldn’t appear immediately to me , to be the usual scum lurking down there . More likely to be in tracksuits and trainers etc than black shoes and trousers

So possibly men after being on a night out ?

Says in the video that it took td 11 mins to walk a 6 min walk . Could be he was propositioned and declined

If a prostitute is out after 4am in weather like that she is desperate to pay someone she owes or for drugs that she needs for the next day

The man followed with intention to rob him

Just can’t tie in the clothing of the men to a typical pimp etc

I’m not for one moment saying td had any involvement with the women in that area but could have been propositioned

As will be pointed out , zero evidence that any working girls spoke to him but that doesn’t mean one didn’t. Might not want to come forward to admit working down there etc

The men in the video, the ones outside the BOI building are his colleagues
That has been well established.

The man outside the BOI building, sheltering behind the pillar, remains unidentified.

DarTipp

Fr Tod Umptious wrote: »

The men in the video, the ones outside the BOI building are his colleagues
That has been well established.

The man outside the BOI building, sheltering behind the pillar, remains unidentified.

well said, what concerns is that his two colleagues are beside the 1st MIB (guy waiting 30mins outside BOI) yet they can't or could not remember anything about him at the time

DarTipp

Fiftyfilthy wrote: »

The men in the video wouldn’t appear immediately to me , to be the usual scum lurking down there . More likely to be in tracksuits and trainers etc than black shoes and trousers

So possibly men after being on a night out ?

Says in the video that it took td 11 mins to walk a 6 min walk . Could be he was propositioned and declined

If a prostitute is out after 4am in weather like that she is desperate to pay someone she owes or for drugs that she needs for the next day

The man followed with intention to rob him

Just can’t tie in the clothing of the men to a typical pimp etc

I’m not for one moment saying td had any involvement with the women in that area but could have been propositioned

As will be pointed out , zero evidence that any working girls spoke to him but that doesn’t mean one didn’t. Might not want to come forward to admit working down there etc

1st MIB to me going by his clothing looks like a security or doorman of a nightclub type

KWAG2019

DarTipp wrote: »

1st MIB to me going by his clothing looks like a security or doorman of a nightclub type

I don’t think speculation about clothing in a 19 year old CCTV tape on a dark wet night from a quite poorly lit area will lead to any breakthroughs. We can convince ourselves of anything looking at it

Fiftyfilthy

KWAG2019 wrote: »

I don’t think speculation about clothing in a 19 year old CCTV tape on a dark wet night from a quite poorly lit area will lead to any breakthroughs. We can convince ourselves of anything looking at it

Yet it’s fine for you to speculate with your little story earlier?

wyrn

I've been reading about this case on Boards for many years and it's so interesting to see how Boards users theories have and haven't changed. When I first came across it, the running and most likely theory was to do with an unfortunate accident involving falling into the canal / Dodder. Ever since the Guards investigate that area in Chapelizod it seems something more sinister might have happened. They wouldn't go to all that trouble if they couldn't make a fairly strong case.

I found it so strange that they never mentioned his colleagues who were also by the man in black at the gate. It seemed one of those crime reporters (I think it was Donal MacIntyre or maybe Paul Williams) who had access to the longer CCTV footage which showed the three of them at the gate. I know they reported that they couldn't remember anything about him but I do find that weird that nothing struck them as odd. The man in black was standing outside the gate, in the rain at 3amish. Unless the person was someone a bit dodge and they didn't want to snitch and went off the record about it and that's why the guards never showed or mentioned that footage.

Either way, it's all fierce sad and I hope that someday his family will have closure as to what happened that night. He has such an amazing family and friends who really went out above and beyond. Without his friends I believe they wouldn't have that atm footage because by the time the guards requested video, it was too late from the other camera locations. Always think of Trevor and his family at this time of year.

[Deleted User]

DarTipp wrote: »

well said, what concerns is that his two colleagues are beside the 1st MIB (guy waiting 30mins outside BOI) yet they can't or could not remember anything about him at the time

Probably because he was totally and utterly unremarkable.

How many people would a person see or interact with on a December Thursday night out ?

Lots

Then go and ask them the following Monday afternoon or Tuesday morning to recall those sightings or interactions.

Unless the person made an impression then you would be struggling to remember them.

0gac3yjefb5sv7

Fr Tod Umptious wrote: »

[/b]

Probably because he was totally and utterly unremarkable.

How many people would a person see or interact with on a December Thursday night out ?

Lots

Then go and ask them the following Monday afternoon or Tuesday morning to recall those sightings or interactions.

Unless the person made an impression then you would be struggling to remember them.

They went to his work and looked in the gate...very strange.

Pops_20

Pheonix10 wrote: »

They went to his work and looked in the gate...very strange.

"They" are Trevor's work colleagues. They were trying to get in the gate just the same as he was.

They don't remember anything about the man at the gate because they were after a skinful of drink and there probably wasn't anything very remarkable about him. Even less so to be remembered after alcohol consumed.

The reason the guards never shared or mentioned this footage is because they ruled out his work colleagues already. Sharing the footage with the public won't help any further.

KWAG2019

Fiftyfilthy wrote: »

Yet it’s fine for you to speculate with your little story earlier?

I laid out the possibilities of what happened. Essentially for a person to disappear you have limited options based on the known facts. That’s not a story. A story is the guy in the CCTV was a doorman because it looks like that’s how he was dressed. Really?

Go back to the options.
TD disappeared because he wanted to.
He entered water (motive /cause unknown) and was swept out to sea.
He was knocked down and body dumped in large bins and accidentally disposed of or deliberately disposed of.
Violent altercation ( cause unknown) and because of where or who was involved body disposed of.

As another poster said pages ago: Car, sea or house.

Beyond that I don’t know what more we can reasonably say about the disappearance itself.