Trevor Deely case - new witness

Stevieluvsye wrote: »

Taxi rank maybe?

No, there was a taxi strike that night.
He smoked so he could have been going to the 24 hours shop in Bath Ave to buy some.

Pheonix10 wrote: »

He had a large umbrella that was never found and also his phone kept ringing for days after. Both of which point to him not falling in.

The umbrella was probably just dumped in the bin by a street cleaner, Bill Clinton was visiting so the town had to look ship shape, and all it was was an umbrella anyway, probably loads of them strewn around a city after bad weather.

As for his phone family or friends cannot categorically say whether it rang or not when they tried to contact him on the Friday, Saturday or Sunday.
And can you blame them, who of us remember if a call we made a few days ago went to voicemail, or rang out or whatever.

I'm sure the Gardai have studied his phone records, but they probably only tell them what they already know, i.e last sighting was Dublin 2 that night/morning.

0gac3yjefb5sv7

Fr Tod Umptious wrote: »

The umbrella was probably just dumped in the bin by a street cleaner, Bill Clinton was visiting so the town had to look ship shape, and all it was was an umbrella anyway, probably loads of them strewn around a city after bad weather.

As for his phone family or friends cannot categorically say whether it rang or not when they tried to contact him on the Friday, Saturday or Sunday.
And can you blame them, who of us remember if a call we made a few days ago went to voicemail, or rang out or whatever.

I'm sure the Gardai have studied his phone records, but they probably only tell them what they already know, i.e last sighting was Dublin 2 that night/morning.

It would be impossible to recall if a phone was ringing 19 years after but surely 3/4 days you'd remember. Especially if someone was missing.

Pheonix10 wrote: »

It would be impossible to recall if a phone was ringing 19 years after but surely 3/4 days you'd remember. Especially if someone was missing.

But he wasn't missing until Monday afternoon/evening.

Pheonix10 wrote: »

He had a large umbrella that was never found and also his phone kept ringing for days after. Both of which point to him not falling in.

IIRC his sister said she phoned him over that weekend not knowing he was missing and the phone rang out. That would indicate that the phone was not in water.

There are several possibilities around how or why TD might still have ended up in water without his phone.

Stevieluvsye wrote: »

Taxi rank maybe?

Taxi strike. Don’t think there’s a rank up that way either.

Bodies fallen into water have a tendency of popping up to the surface after a few days. In an urban area (although with the short cold days of winter) it is likely than it would be seen if it floated during daylight hours close enough to points of observation. It didn’t get carried to the sandbanks of Dublin Bay by low tide, nor did it get visibly snagged up in the debris of a river or amid shipping. All things are possible (I think of the body of an Irish person that turned up on a Welsh beach and only identified years later due to lack of interaction between police forces then) but I honestly think the likelihood of him having ended up in water is small enough.

That person who gave evidence a couple of years back that led to the Chapelizod dig probably had good reason to believe his remains might be there as that was the known usual “secret dumping/hiding ground” for the individual/gang. It may be somewhere else that the individual used, or in the direction of some business they had somewhere in the countryside or up the Dublin mountains. He could have been buried in final place on Christmas Day, when least number of people are out and about.

You'd assume the women turning tricks were all interviewed at the time. Guaranteed they know something if it was a gang operating in the area.

Beechwoodspark

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Taxi strike. Don’t think there’s a rank up that way either.

Rank at spar baggot ?

People should read this Irish Times series from a few years ago to familiarise themselves with some of the facts of the case

https://www.irishtimes.com/life-and-style/people/the-disappearance-of-trevor-deely-part-1-1.2120358

snotboogie

If you read between the lines of the press releases and police action its clear that they don't think he ended up in the water.

On top of that the CCTV outside the office is really weird, the lad skulking around at 3am on a rainy night, only moving to follow Trevor to the gate. Never came forward. Ponta 6 did a great breakdown of the CCTV: https://youtu.be/mLXEME-G0A8

https://www.google.com/maps/dir/53.3326973,-6.2514435/53.3313203,-6.2231209/@53.3327498,-6.2374194,14z/data=!4m2!4m1!3e2

Looking at Google Map route options I see going down Haddington Road is much of a muchness walking time wise, and maybe he was in the habit of using this route rather than up through the main thoroughfare of Pembroke Road.

Hector Savage

So that independent article is behind a pay wall, does it give any more details ?
Why is the witness coming forward now ? someone she feared is now out of the picture ?

Hector Savage wrote: »

So that independent article is behind a pay wall, does it give any more details ?
Why is the witness coming forward now ? someone she feared is now out of the picture ?

Possibly a pimp/gang member.

snotboogie wrote: »

If you read between the lines of the press releases and police action its clear that they don't think he ended up in the water.

On top of that the CCTV outside the office is really weird, the lad skulking around at 3am on a rainy night, only moving to follow Trevor to the gate. Never came forward. Ponta 6 did a great breakdown of the CCTV: https://youtu.be/mLXEME-G0A8

The other men outside the gate were eliminated from enquiries by Gardai apart from the man who was hanging around for 30 mins. The timings are interesting.

BDI

Are people saying he headed up mespil Avenue to the spar beside the garage and the other direction was faster?

Wasn’t there a story before about a fella who was brought back to some house on the pretense the prostitute was taking him back to the house and then he was beaten and robbed. It was a scam they were running and it was thought they ran it for a while but people weren’t coming forward because of the circumstances.

I’m not saying that’s what happened and iit might have gone wrong. But it’d explain how he was removed from the area. He was possibly already out of the area.

Plenty of crime families had hooks in the area whether they were sisters of criminals working the streets or criminals watching their girlfriends working the streets to make money for drugs, I remember jade goodeys mother(I think it was,) saying she used to trick prostitute customers into parting with their money then running off but she wasn’t a prostitute.

I’d say he was just a nieve young lad that got tricked into something that went out of control when he’d a few too many on him.

I could be way off but I hope they find him. My first full time job was plastered with his pictures at the time and that was well into the outskirts of Dublin.

As someone said earlier, it's strange how this case keeps popping up when so many other missing person cases are just written off. The family obviously deserve some credit for that but I think at this stage it's fair to say the Gaurds are also keen for more information. This means, in my opinion, that they know who they want but don't have the evidence to charge, so they keep trying to get someone to come forward, because they know people have information. That implies its a murder. Also, they don't announce new leads and dug up an area like they did last year unless they are pretty certain the poor chap was murdered and disposed of by a well known criminal.

[Deleted User] wrote: »

As someone said earlier, it's strange how this case keeps popping up when so many other missing person cases are just written off. The family obviously deserve some credit for that but I think at this stage it's fair to say the Gaurds are also keen for more information. This means, in my opinion, that they know who they want but don't have the evidence to charge, so they keep trying to get someone to come forward, because they know people have information. That implies its a murder. Also, they don't announce new leads and dug up an area like they did last year unless they are pretty certain the poor chap was murdered and disposed of by a well known criminal.

A well known criminal gang or individual wouldnt have had a reason to target him either. It seems to me with what AGS and the press have been saying that this was a chance meeting. In the wrong place at the wrong time. If it had of been an ongoing involvement with a gang then evidence would have surfaced.

Most people known what the canal and area were renowned for. That to me is the most plausible explanation.

tara73

Deleted User wrote: »

As someone said earlier, it's strange how this case keeps popping up when so many other missing person cases are just written off. The family obviously deserve some credit for that but I think at this stage it's fair to say the Gaurds are also keen for more information. This means, in my opinion, that they know who they want but don't have the evidence to charge, so they keep trying to get someone to come forward, because they know people have information. That implies its a murder. Also, they don't announce new leads and dug up an area like they did last year unless they are pretty certain the poor chap was murdered and disposed of by a well known criminal.

this.

tara73 wrote: »

this.

Exaclty. That chap found in the unmarked grave in Wales was missing for 25 years. Id never heard of the poor guy. Conor Whooley.

smelly sock wrote: »

A well known criminal gang or individual wouldnt have had a reason to target him either. It seems to me with what AGS and the press have been saying that this was a chance meeting. In the wrong place at the wrong time.

But it can be both. Wrong place, wrong time, well known criminal who is a total nut job. (Aren't they all?).

Deleted User wrote: »

As someone said earlier, it's strange how this case keeps popping up when so many other missing person cases are just written off. The family obviously deserve some credit for that but I think at this stage it's fair to say the Gaurds are also keen for more information.

The Philip Cairns case got renewed energy some years ago. There are threads still floating around here I think about it. There was a lot of chat about some dead pedo called Cooke and Gardaí were following up on a storage full of videos etc etc. What have we heard since?

If we have a significant witness now and that has been released to the media I’d expect significant legal steps shortly.

[Deleted User] wrote: »

But it can be both. Wrong place, wrong time, well known criminal who is a total nut job. (Aren't they all?).

Plenty of them up around there making sure business was running smooth also.

BDI

And the taxi strike stuff only means not as many taxis were running. There’s always plenty of taxis willing to work through a strike.

Might also mean one of them didn’t come forward because they didn’t want to publicly be labeled a scab but surely they’d have come forward by now.

KWAG2019 wrote: »

The Philip Cairns case got renewed energy some years ago. There are threads still floating around here I think about it. There was a lot of chat about some dead pedo called Cooke and Gardaí were following up on a storage full of videos etc etc. What have we heard since?

If we have a significant witness now and that has been released to the media I’d expect significant legal steps shortly.

We hear it all the time though. Its a tactic AGS use to try and make potential witnesses come forward. Usually when they have a fair idea who they are looking for and what happened.

Deirdre Jacob recently enough is another example.

I wouldnt be expecting anything to significant to happen at all.

smelly sock wrote: »

We hear it all the time though.

I wouldnt be expecting anything to significant to happen at all.

I agree. I just think the police need to be careful about saying something is significant if they can’t follow through.

KWAG2019 wrote: »

I agree. I just think the police need to be careful about saying something is significant if they can’t follow through.

Yeh but i think its the press who should wisen up.

tara73

smelly sock wrote: »

Yeh but i think its the press who should wisen up.

but can they write what they want? It's an ongoing investigation and if making stuff up like this (significant lead/new witness) wouldn't there been charges pressed?

tara73 wrote: »

but can they write what they want? It's an ongoing investigation and if making stuff up like this (significant lead) wouldn't there been charges pressed?

Yeh they tend to do that. All they want to do is sell papers. Journalists by nature are heartless. They will say they have a source within AGS. Id imagine they do. Id imagine AGS have a concrete theory based on intel and indeed some hear say evidence but i doubt they have enough to charge.