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Trevor Deely case - new witness

tdf7187

There was a previous lengthy thread on the case but it was locked for review and has yet to be reopened.

https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/new-witness-backs-up-gardas-theory-that-deely-killed-in-row-with-gang-38755889.html

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farmchoice

i think there are 3 possibilities

1. he killed himself, he jumped into a body of water, be that grand canal dock or the dodder and his body was never found.
the family have never accepted this as likely but in reality it is the most likely its an all to common story unfortunately.

2. he fell into some body of water, and due to the conditions his body was never found. this is not terribly likely he was steady on his feet, why would he have been that close to the dodder or the grand canal basin, if he fell into the canal he would have been found, still its possible.

3. he got into an altercation with someone and he was killed and disposed of, getting into a fight is quite possible even getting killed by mistake is possible, you fall and hit you head, but the chances that you get into a fight with the type of person who can organize such a thing in the middle of the night is highly highly unlikely. it is just about possible, that part of Dublin had plenty of unsavory characters knocking about. still the notion that you could get in a fight be killed and be disposed of on a saturday night around Christmas without any seeing anything is a pretty outlandish theory.

DellyBelly

Berserker5 wrote: »

'Sex not disclosed' means a female anyhow

In this day and age it could be that the person see's themselves as Gender neutral :rolleyes:

DellyBelly

Day Lewin wrote: »

Several of his mates saw him talking with a girl at the nightclub.
Much later, on his way home, a girl followed in his footsteps, captured on CCTV, never identified.
One might wildly speculate that it was the same girl, who told him (and maybe others like him) where there would be a good party after the club ended. A touch of entrapment!
All pure speculation and guesswork: but at least, compatible with the few known facts.

You should change you username to Hercule Poirot

tomwaits48

has the case been covered in a podcast anywhere, does anyone know?

TheW1zard

There's 3 locks between Mount Street and Baggot St Uppr where he crossed the Canal. He wouldnt have gone through all of them surely?
Where would he have gone into the Dodder? He lived down that way but you have to have jumped in.

I always thought the abduction murder scenario was more plausible.

Poor family, Im sure this thread will get locked up soon enough.

KWAG2019

Pheonix10 wrote: »

Wait so can any advise who the guys at the gates were? Thought one was a security guard or post man?

IIRC all were garda accounted for except for the man TD spoke to. This was established previously. I'd forget about looking at the videos: you're not going to see something that hasn't been dealt with.

Patrick2010

Sorry, but couldn't resist, re :They were not the type of prostitute that you'd take home to your mother

What type of prostitutes do you normally bring home to your mother?

seamus

Fr Tod Umptious wrote: »

Just this week came confirmation that a unidentified buried body washed up in Wales over 30 years ago was that of a missing Irish man.

Also a few years ago another unidentified body in Wales was that of a Wexford lady last seen walking her dogs on the beach in the early '90s

It happens.

I only half-read the article, but apparently they believe that the prevailing currents in the Irish sea mean that things which go into the sea in Leinster are more likely to end up on the Welsh or English coast than the Irish one.

Although it's fine for someone to be principled about their loved one still being alive, it's worthwhile for families to give their DNA to this project. At worst you will be no better off than if you hadn't given a sample. But you might also get some closure and be able to say goodbye properly.

Thelonious Monk

I was out in town that night too and am around the same age as TD. I became so familiar with the case and now work beside Wilton Terrace that I could give bloody TD walking tours at this stage. I really wish they'd get some closure, the poor family, but alas I fear this will just amount to nothing as usual. If that dig didn't find anything, I wouldn't have much hope elsewhere.

0gac3yjefb5sv7

Wait so can any advise who the guys at the gates were? Thought one was a security guard or post man?

Steviewinger

tdf7187 wrote: »

Yes, that Spar used to be open much later. I don't know if it was 24 hour but I remember it being open very late, after even the nightclubs had closed.

Baggot Street was and is upmarket, but as I say late at night it had a dodgy vibe. I remember going into the Abrekebabra that used to be there a few doors from the Spar with a mate after a night of boozing some time around 1996 or 1997 and there were four prostitutes in there shooting the breeze. They were not the type of prostitute that you'd take home to your mother, put it that way.

Gosh, you must have been terrified ðŸ€”

Stevieluvsye

Ah ok, The Dodder is plausible but from my take looking at him in CCTV, he seemed to be steady enough on his feet

[Deleted User]

Stevieluvsye wrote: »

Excuse my ignorance here, but if he went in the Canal would a body be capable of reaching the sea? What with the locks? I could be totally wrong though.

The canal, probably less likely.

But if you follow his route home from the last sighting he would have crossed the Dodder at least once.
That would have been swollen and fast flowing due to the weather.

It's plausible that he could have fallen in.

KWAG2019

Fr Tod Umptious wrote: »

No it's not
Some are plausible, many are outlandish.

From memory two theories on the old there were that he was killed by a gang from Alaska because he had gone over to see that girl uninvited.
Another we as that the last sighting, Haddington Rd ATM, was not actually the last sighting and that he was actually seen a a pub in Donnybrook well know to serve after hours later in the night.

Personally the only plausible theory in my eyes is that unfortunately he went into the water either by himself or by accident.

I did say available evidence: have you evidence of gang involvement on a trip to Alaska?
Are there statements/evidence in the public domain of such a later sighting?

If we keep to the known available evidence a lot of the outlandish disappears. What's left is a smaller field and there I agree with you that we can talk about plausibility.

Entry into water is definitely one theory. A violent clash another. At this stage the chances are that we will never know. I await the outcome of the latest police initiative.

Captain_Crash

Stevieluvsye wrote: »

Excuse my ignorance here, but if he went in the Canal would a body be capable of reaching the sea? What with the locks? I could be totally wrong though.

Due to the weather, the Dodder was bursting (or nearly) bursting its banks. I read an article not so long ago regarding this theory. Basically the chances of him falling in by accident and disappearing were unlikely... but..... the conditions which would allow that to happen (from a Dodder/water flow POV) were present that night!

Edit: It was the Dodder the article was about, not the canal. Post amended.

Raconteuse

Slippery ground, strong winds, waterway bank walk, few drinks - first thing I'd think (and sadly it did happen to a lad in Cork last year or 2017) but the garda diver said they don't believe it's the case, because of the containment system.

EmmetSpiceland

Stevieluvsye wrote: »

Excuse my ignorance here, but if he went in the Canal would a body be capable of reaching the sea? What with the locks? I could be totally wrong though.

He was already past the canal in the last sighting on CCTV, wasn’t he? But they did search the canal and around grand canal dock.

If anyone has seen the Dodder, when passing through Ballsbridge, during or after heavy rain will know it can rise quite high and move very fast.

The question then would be how would he end up in there. All speculation.

Stevieluvsye

Excuse my ignorance here, but if he went in the Canal would a body be capable of reaching the sea? What with the locks? I could be totally wrong though.

[Deleted User]

Hector Savage wrote: »

If he ended up in the water is it possible to be washed out to sea and never found ? unlucky with the tides maybe ?

Im sure the Gards checked the tidal info for that night ...

Just this week came confirmation that a unidentified buried body washed up in Wales over 30 years ago was that of a missing Irish man.

Also a few years ago another unidentified body in Wales was that of a Wexford lady last seen walking her dogs on the beach in the early '90s

It happens.

Cee-Jay-Cee

Berserker5 wrote: »

'Sex not disclosed' means a female anyhow

And they mention that the reason that some people don't come forward until years later is that people die, etc etc which leads me to believe (rightly or wrongly) that the missus of someone involved in the murder and who has recently died only now feels they can come forward with the info without fear of reprisal from that person.

smelly sock

Hector Savage wrote: »

If he ended up in the water is it possible to be washed out to sea and never found ? unlucky with the tides maybe ?

Im sure the Gards checked the tidal info for that night ...

Yeh it is. Look at that chap whooley ifentified in a welsh grave after 25 years.

Hector Savage

Fr Tod Umptious wrote: »

No it's not
Some are plausible, many are outlandish.

From memory two theories on the old there were that he was killed by a gang from Alaska because he had gone over to see that girl uninvited.
Another we as that the last sighting, Haddington Rd ATM, was not actually the last sighting and that he was actually seen a a pub in Donnybrook well know to serve after hours later in the night.

Personally the only plausible theory in my eyes is that unfortunately he went into the water either by himself or by accident.

If he ended up in the water is it possible to be washed out to sea and never found ? unlucky with the tides maybe ?

Im sure the Gards checked the tidal info for that night ...

[Deleted User]

KWAG2019 wrote: »

The thing is about mysteries like this if theories fit within the visible/available evidence no one is in a position to say what is true and what is fact. Quite simply no one knows. One theory is as valid as the next. If they fit within the available/visible evidence.

The police usually have more information than they are releasing and pages and pages of theories can be very wide of the mark to someone with more information.

No it's not
Some are plausible, many are outlandish.

From memory two theories on the old there were that he was killed by a gang from Alaska because he had gone over to see that girl uninvited.
Another we as that the last sighting, Haddington Rd ATM, was not actually the last sighting and that he was actually seen a a pub in Donnybrook well know to serve after hours later in the night.

Personally the only plausible theory in my eyes is that unfortunately he went into the water either by himself or by accident.

Day Lewin

EmmetSpiceland wrote: »

From what I believe, there was no evidence that he was into either drugs or hookers. The police didn’t think it was credible.

At the time, I remember reading that he was due to meet a man and a woman but that seems not to be the case now.

Anyone know anything about that?

Several of his mates saw him talking with a girl at the nightclub.
Much later, on his way home, a girl followed in his footsteps, captured on CCTV, never identified.
One might wildly speculate that it was the same girl, who told him (and maybe others like him) where there would be a good party after the club ended. A touch of entrapment!
All pure speculation and guesswork: but at least, compatible with the few known facts.

tomwaits48

there's still hookers around the area, had a charming offer there recently & most Monday mornings the pavement has a restocked supply of used jonnies lying around.

tdf7187

EmmetSpiceland wrote: »

From what I believe, there was no evidence that he was into either drugs or hookers. The police didn’t think it was credible.

At the time, I remember reading that he was due to meet a man and a woman but that seems not to be the case now.

Anyone know anything about that?

No, don't remember reading anything on those lines. Are you sure you're not confusing with the couple who were seen on CCTV? A couple - man and a woman - were featured on the CCTV footage, they came forward IIRC.

KWAG2019

farmchoice wrote: »

if i recall correctly the other thread descended into crazy argument about things that were not true.
people were posting fairly out there theories and others were then discussing them as if they they were fact.

The thing is about mysteries like this if theories fit within the visible/available evidence no one is in a position to say what is true and what is fact. Quite simply no one knows. One theory is as valid as the next. If they fit within the available/visible evidence.

The police usually have more information than they are releasing and pages and pages of theories can be very wide of the mark to someone with more information.

EmmetSpiceland

Raconteuse wrote: »

Yeah that's what people have been saying mostly.

Why his colleagues though? Would they just stand around outside with a random stranger? I just wonder about it.

I think they were interviewed. Don’t think they had much interaction with the guy waiting.

Raconteuse

Fr Tod Umptious wrote: »

Your probably not the only one.

What makes the TD case so high profile is because his family made it high profile.

In the days after he went missing,(it was around lunchtime Monday that people realised he was missing) the family pounded the streets looking for info, they put up thousands of posters, they got the story in the media.

Apparently his brother left his family and his business in Mayo on the Tuesday to look for Trevor, and did not return for two months.

That's why this case gets the airtime, because the family make sure it gets the airtime.

My brother lived and worked in the area at the time and he said you'd go to sleep at night seeing Trevor's face. Excellent work by those who loved him.

TheW1zard wrote: »

The three lads outside after he goes in. I thought two of these are his colleagues and 1 was the guy waiting around by the pillar.

Yeah that's what people have been saying mostly.

Why his colleagues though? Would they just stand around outside with a random stranger? I just wonder about it.

EmmetSpiceland

TheW1zard wrote: »

The three lads outside after he goes in. I thought two of these are his colleagues and 1 was the guy waiting around by the pillar.

They are, one stays waiting while the other colleague goes in. The original suspicious guy stays by the gate.