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Trevor Deely case - new witness

tdf7187

There was a previous lengthy thread on the case but it was locked for review and has yet to be reopened.

https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/new-witness-backs-up-gardas-theory-that-deely-killed-in-row-with-gang-38755889.html

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EmmetSpiceland

Stevieluvsye wrote: »

Excuse my ignorance here, but if he went in the Canal would a body be capable of reaching the sea? What with the locks? I could be totally wrong though.

He was already past the canal in the last sighting on CCTV, wasn’t he? But they did search the canal and around grand canal dock.

If anyone has seen the Dodder, when passing through Ballsbridge, during or after heavy rain will know it can rise quite high and move very fast.

The question then would be how would he end up in there. All speculation.

Raconteuse

Slippery ground, strong winds, waterway bank walk, few drinks - first thing I'd think (and sadly it did happen to a lad in Cork last year or 2017) but the garda diver said they don't believe it's the case, because of the containment system.

Captain_Crash

Stevieluvsye wrote: »

Excuse my ignorance here, but if he went in the Canal would a body be capable of reaching the sea? What with the locks? I could be totally wrong though.

Due to the weather, the Dodder was bursting (or nearly) bursting its banks. I read an article not so long ago regarding this theory. Basically the chances of him falling in by accident and disappearing were unlikely... but..... the conditions which would allow that to happen (from a Dodder/water flow POV) were present that night!

Edit: It was the Dodder the article was about, not the canal. Post amended.

KWAG2019

Fr Tod Umptious wrote: »

No it's not
Some are plausible, many are outlandish.

From memory two theories on the old there were that he was killed by a gang from Alaska because he had gone over to see that girl uninvited.
Another we as that the last sighting, Haddington Rd ATM, was not actually the last sighting and that he was actually seen a a pub in Donnybrook well know to serve after hours later in the night.

Personally the only plausible theory in my eyes is that unfortunately he went into the water either by himself or by accident.

I did say available evidence: have you evidence of gang involvement on a trip to Alaska?
Are there statements/evidence in the public domain of such a later sighting?

If we keep to the known available evidence a lot of the outlandish disappears. What's left is a smaller field and there I agree with you that we can talk about plausibility.

Entry into water is definitely one theory. A violent clash another. At this stage the chances are that we will never know. I await the outcome of the latest police initiative.

[Deleted User]

Stevieluvsye wrote: »

Excuse my ignorance here, but if he went in the Canal would a body be capable of reaching the sea? What with the locks? I could be totally wrong though.

The canal, probably less likely.

But if you follow his route home from the last sighting he would have crossed the Dodder at least once.
That would have been swollen and fast flowing due to the weather.

It's plausible that he could have fallen in.

Stevieluvsye

Ah ok, The Dodder is plausible but from my take looking at him in CCTV, he seemed to be steady enough on his feet

Steviewinger

tdf7187 wrote: »

Yes, that Spar used to be open much later. I don't know if it was 24 hour but I remember it being open very late, after even the nightclubs had closed.

Baggot Street was and is upmarket, but as I say late at night it had a dodgy vibe. I remember going into the Abrekebabra that used to be there a few doors from the Spar with a mate after a night of boozing some time around 1996 or 1997 and there were four prostitutes in there shooting the breeze. They were not the type of prostitute that you'd take home to your mother, put it that way.

Gosh, you must have been terrified ðŸ€”

0gac3yjefb5sv7

Wait so can any advise who the guys at the gates were? Thought one was a security guard or post man?

Thelonious Monk

I was out in town that night too and am around the same age as TD. I became so familiar with the case and now work beside Wilton Terrace that I could give bloody TD walking tours at this stage. I really wish they'd get some closure, the poor family, but alas I fear this will just amount to nothing as usual. If that dig didn't find anything, I wouldn't have much hope elsewhere.

seamus

Fr Tod Umptious wrote: »

Just this week came confirmation that a unidentified buried body washed up in Wales over 30 years ago was that of a missing Irish man.

Also a few years ago another unidentified body in Wales was that of a Wexford lady last seen walking her dogs on the beach in the early '90s

It happens.

I only half-read the article, but apparently they believe that the prevailing currents in the Irish sea mean that things which go into the sea in Leinster are more likely to end up on the Welsh or English coast than the Irish one.

Although it's fine for someone to be principled about their loved one still being alive, it's worthwhile for families to give their DNA to this project. At worst you will be no better off than if you hadn't given a sample. But you might also get some closure and be able to say goodbye properly.

Patrick2010

Sorry, but couldn't resist, re :They were not the type of prostitute that you'd take home to your mother

What type of prostitutes do you normally bring home to your mother?

KWAG2019

Pheonix10 wrote: »

Wait so can any advise who the guys at the gates were? Thought one was a security guard or post man?

IIRC all were garda accounted for except for the man TD spoke to. This was established previously. I'd forget about looking at the videos: you're not going to see something that hasn't been dealt with.

TheW1zard

There's 3 locks between Mount Street and Baggot St Uppr where he crossed the Canal. He wouldnt have gone through all of them surely?
Where would he have gone into the Dodder? He lived down that way but you have to have jumped in.

I always thought the abduction murder scenario was more plausible.

Poor family, Im sure this thread will get locked up soon enough.

tomwaits48

has the case been covered in a podcast anywhere, does anyone know?

DellyBelly

Day Lewin wrote: »

Several of his mates saw him talking with a girl at the nightclub.
Much later, on his way home, a girl followed in his footsteps, captured on CCTV, never identified.
One might wildly speculate that it was the same girl, who told him (and maybe others like him) where there would be a good party after the club ended. A touch of entrapment!
All pure speculation and guesswork: but at least, compatible with the few known facts.

You should change you username to Hercule Poirot

DellyBelly

Berserker5 wrote: »

'Sex not disclosed' means a female anyhow

In this day and age it could be that the person see's themselves as Gender neutral :rolleyes:

farmchoice

i think there are 3 possibilities

1. he killed himself, he jumped into a body of water, be that grand canal dock or the dodder and his body was never found.
the family have never accepted this as likely but in reality it is the most likely its an all to common story unfortunately.

2. he fell into some body of water, and due to the conditions his body was never found. this is not terribly likely he was steady on his feet, why would he have been that close to the dodder or the grand canal basin, if he fell into the canal he would have been found, still its possible.

3. he got into an altercation with someone and he was killed and disposed of, getting into a fight is quite possible even getting killed by mistake is possible, you fall and hit you head, but the chances that you get into a fight with the type of person who can organize such a thing in the middle of the night is highly highly unlikely. it is just about possible, that part of Dublin had plenty of unsavory characters knocking about. still the notion that you could get in a fight be killed and be disposed of on a saturday night around Christmas without any seeing anything is a pretty outlandish theory.

suicide_circus

random murder is rare. very rare. if as is being suggested, Trevor fell foul of a criminal gang, its difficult to avoid the idea that he was having some type of interaction with them. the area was notorious for prostitution and that trade goes hand in hand with orgabised crime, drugs etc.

Ash.J.Williams

Dodge wrote: »

What type of hookers do you normally bring home to you mother?

Julia Roberts?

padd b1975

TwoMonthsOff wrote: »

He invited himself over to Alaska after being told by the friend in Alaska not to come.

Smooth.

[Deleted User]

My late aunt, born 1920, lived in Mespil Estate apartments and knew well of the prostitutes in the area who have been around since I was a child. Indeed when I was visiting my aunt during day time one Sunday, I was approached by a young lad asking how much I was charging for my body! I wouldn’t mind but I was wearing corduroy trousers and a tank top, a very unsexy rig-out which I hated. My aunt told me of the time when she and my grandmother were taking a stroll to the church for Sunday Mass when Legion of Mary volunteers approached them and pleaded them to change their lifestyle, which was hurting God! My Nana thought it was great fun that the Legion ladies thought they were “working ladies”, and she played a game with them, pulling up the skirt and asking them not to spoil “business” on them!

The red light district stretched up Haddington Road too, the full route that my aunt and grandmother would take to Mass, also into Ballsbridge up to Ailesbury Road to some extent but with focal point in the surroundings of my aunt’s estate-though not in the Estate itself.

[Deleted User]

TheW1zard wrote: »

There's 3 locks between Mount Street and Baggot St Uppr where he crossed the Canal. He wouldnt have gone through all of them surely?
Where would he have gone into the Dodder? He lived down that way but you have to have jumped in.

I always thought the abduction murder scenario was more plausible.

Poor family, Im sure this thread will get locked up soon enough.

So he was heading down Haddington Rd, it's presumed that he may have been going for cigarettes in the 24 hour shop around South Lott's rd Bath Ave.

From there to get back to Sandymount he could have gone along the Dodder Walk at the back of the then Landsowne Rd stadium that goes all the way up to the bridge in Ballsbridge

Plenty of places along that walk were the water is only a few steps away.
It's dark, the river is high, he has taken alcohol, etc etc.

Would I do it at 3am on wet morning, no, but remember there was a taxi strike so no reason to take the main routes and hail a cab as might happen any other night.

So he did get close to the Dodder on his way home, regardless of what route he took, not to mention the fact that Haddington Rd itself leads to water if you keep going mainly straight.

iamstop

farmchoice wrote: »

i think there are 3 possibilities

1. he killed himself, he jumped into a body of water, be that grand canal dock or the dodder and his body was never found.
the family have never accepted this as likely but in reality it is the most likely its an all to common story unfortunately.

2. he fell into some body of water, and due to the conditions his body was never found. this is not terribly likely he was steady on his feet, why would he have been that close to the dodder or the grand canal basin, if he fell into the canal he would have been found, still its possible.

With the tech we have now surely we can test the possibility of a body falling into the canal or the Dodder and see where it ends up.

Get a dummy like 'Buster' from Myth Busters. Make it same build and buoyancy as Trevor would have been. Slap a few trackers on it. Wait until there is similar weather conditions to that night and dump it into a likely entry point. The tracker will tell you if it would have made it past the locks on the canal and if it would have made it out to sea. Yeah, chances are the tides won't be the same but give it long enough to see where it gets to.

0gac3yjefb5sv7

He had a large umbrella that was never found and also his phone kept ringing for days after. Both of which point to him not falling in.

[Deleted User]

suicide_circus wrote: »

random murder is rare. very rare. if as is being suggested, Trevor fell foul of a criminal gang, its difficult to avoid the idea that he was having some type of interaction with them. the area was notorious for prostitution and that trade goes hand in hand with orgabised crime, drugs etc.

We don’t really know Trevor’s personality. If he were an inept awkward kind of guy he might have “chatted up” a girl in the nightclub who was really a prostitute not wanting her professional time wasted with non-profitable business, watched by her “minder”. If he was giddy drunk, acting the maggot a bit, blocking other potential business, acting one minute as if he might be a potential customer, the next minute saying “you must be kidding love, not my type”... could have got a dangerous woman and viscous “minder” mad and wanting to “teach him a lesson”, or so enraged and furious about business being spoilt called in backup for a quick disposal.

There was possibly a taunting match going on with them following Trevor, and with gang boss cruising around in car who pulled in at convenient moment, dragged him into car for a dressing down not to fcuk up business, he got shot when he didn’t appear sufficiently repentant.

0gac3yjefb5sv7

[Deleted User] wrote: »

We don’t really know Trevor’s personality. If he were an inept awkward kind of guy he might have “chatted up” a girl in the nightclub who was really a prostitute not wanting her professional time wasted with non-profitable business, watched by her “minder”. If he was giddy drunk, acting the maggot a bit, blocking other potential business, acting one minute as if he might be a potential customer, the next minute saying “you must be kidding love, not my type”... could have got a dangerous woman and viscous “minder” mad and wanting to “teach him a lesson”, or so enraged and furious about business being spoilt called in backup for a quick disposal.

There was possibly a taunting match going on with them following Trevor, and with gang boss cruising around in car who pulled in at convenient moment, dragged him into car for a dressing down not to fcuk up business, he got shot when he didn’t appear sufficiently repentant.

Some novel there! Good thing you didn't get carried away haha.

Tea Shock

One thing that always slightly baffled me is the final CCTV footage shows Trevor passing the bank that is now Milano's and walking down Haddington Road, supposedly on his way home, which was on Serpentine Avenue.

Why would someone walk down Haddington Road from there if they were on their way to Serpentine Avenue? Surely, especially on a miserable night of wind and rain, you'd want to take the quickest route, which would have been directly towards Pembroke Road.

Was he actually going home at all?

Always puzzled me a bit about this case!

KWAG2019

farmchoice wrote: »

i think there are 3 possibilities

1. he killed himself, he jumped into a body of water, be that grand canal dock or the dodder and his body was never found.
the family have never accepted this as likely but in reality it is the most likely its an all to common story unfortunately.

2. he fell into some body of water, and due to the conditions his body was never found. this is not terribly likely he was steady on his feet, why would he have been that close to the dodder or the grand canal basin, if he fell into the canal he would have been found, still its possible.

3. he got into an altercation with someone and he was killed and disposed of, getting into a fight is quite possible even getting killed by mistake is possible, you fall and hit you head, but the chances that you get into a fight with the type of person who can organize such a thing in the middle of the night is highly highly unlikely. it is just about possible, that part of Dublin had plenty of unsavory characters knocking about. still the notion that you could get in a fight be killed and be disposed of on a saturday night around Christmas without any seeing anything is a pretty outlandish theory.

Back to the dim and distant past but in my youth I was involved with LoM and was asked if I would help with their mission in that area. They had a house there eventually and while the experience you relate mightn't be positive they at least were trying to do something. I couldn’t help due to travel and such but as many have noted here that part of Dublin was (and seemingly still is) known for street prostitution.

Stevieluvsye

Tea Shock wrote: »

One thing that always slightly baffled me is the final CCTV footage shows Trevor passing the bank that is now Milano's and walking down Haddington Road, supposedly on his way home, which was on Serpentine Avenue.

Why would someone walk down Haddington Road from there if they were on their way to Serpentine Avenue? Surely, especially on a miserable night of wind and rain, you'd want to take the quickest route, which would have been directly towards Pembroke Road.

Was he actually going home at all?

Always puzzled me a bit about this case!

Taxi rank maybe?

Professor Genius

[Deleted User] wrote: »

We don’t really know Trevor’s personality. If he were an inept awkward kind of guy he might have “chatted up” a girl in the nightclub who was really a prostitute not wanting her professional time wasted with non-profitable business, watched by her “minder”. If he was giddy drunk, acting the maggot a bit, blocking other potential business, acting one minute as if he might be a potential customer, the next minute saying “you must be kidding love, not my type”... could have got a dangerous woman and viscous “minder” mad and wanting to “teach him a lesson”, or so enraged and furious about business being spoilt called in backup for a quick disposal.

There was possibly a taunting match going on with them following Trevor, and with gang boss cruising around in car who pulled in at convenient moment, dragged him into car for a dressing down not to fcuk up business, he got shot when he didn’t appear sufficiently repentant.

This imaginary nonsense will rightly have the thread locked and deleted again.

I remember in the other thread there was detailed analysis on the cctv stills