28064212 wrote: » Seen this mentioned multiple times in the thread: how is it envisaged that it would work? Dedicated trash-spotting marshals? A network of cameras? The majority of races are stretched both in personnel and funds, so both of those are out. Runner reports? One runner's word against another might not go down very well, not to mention most runners who see someone throwing rubbish aren't going to be able to see the offender's number.
28064212 wrote: » Seen this mentioned multiple times in the thread: how is it envisaged that it would work? Dedicated trash-spotting marshals? A network of cameras?
strandroad wrote: » Spot checks are enough. If you disqualify a few and make a sufficiently big deal out of it, you'll see runners suddenly paying attention.
strandroad wrote: » Imagine paying the fees and perhaps travel or accommodation just to lose it and be publicly called out as a litterbug.
John_Rambo wrote: » Marshals take down the bib number of anyone littering and they're fined. If they don't pay the fine they're not allowed compete again.
John_Rambo wrote: » Littering is unacceptable
28064212 wrote: » "Spot checks" - again, how would these work in practice? Describe your potential checks that don't require significant personnel or financial resources. And if the runner says they didn't (or even if there's a genuine mistake)? A single defamation lawsuit, and you'll see hundreds of races across the country shutting down, as there is absolutely no way they'll get insurance to cover potential lawsuits. Again, in practice, how is a marshal (who is often just a teenager in a bib) supposed to do this? A pad and pen, while also directing runners and stopping traffic? Not to mention the fact that even a dedicated "litter spotting marshal" could, at best, cover a 50m stretch of road, assuming that there aren't too many runners at once (there usually are). I agree. I just disagree that there's some magic fix that race organisers can put in place
robinph wrote: » A lot of races could do more to help things. Massive bins, with a big target on them so that you have something to aim at and can also see them from afar, and have those bins up to at least a km after the water station. 1km is really not that far if you go past a water station and are then negotiating your way out of a crowd, extracting a gel, consuming your gel, downing some water, putting the empty wrapper back in your pocket, trying not to trip over discarded bottles, drinking some more water... and then you find you are past the last bin as the people setting up thought 100m afterwards was a long way.
grimbergen wrote: » Saw this used to great effect in the Wicklow half last year. About 800m after the water stations - giant skip bags that you couldn't miss with signs on the run up saying something like "strictly no bottles after this point". Seemed to work as in there were zero bottles to be seen after that and the rubbish if any was contained in one area.
RacoonQueen wrote: » But given you can't carry the cups like you can bottles, the cups would be discarded near the water station. So easier to clean up. In Ironman events there are litter zones, if you discard anything outside the litter zones, you're penalised. Running needs to be more open to DQs for dangerous and ignorant behaviour.
28064212 wrote: » Again, in practice, how is a marshal (who is often just a teenager in a bib) supposed to do this? A pad and pen, while also directing runners and stopping traffic? Not to mention the fact that even a dedicated "litter spotting marshal" could, at best, cover a 50m stretch of road, assuming that there aren't too many runners at once (there usually are). I agree. I just disagree that there's some magic fix that race organisers can put in place
John_Rambo wrote: » Marshal sees a litterer, jots down the number, litterer is banned from the next race. The mere threat will stop most from littering.
robinph wrote: » In a trail ultra where there is one person passing every 30 seconds then yes, and I'd expect that to already happen. Although in reality if you've carried an empty cup for the last 5 miles from the previous drink station the marshals tend to be happy to take the cups from you and would have a bin bag with them anyway. In a mass participation road race then there is no hope of spotting the runner, spotting their number and writing it down before the next person to drop a bottle goes past you. The solution in that situation is to put a big bin there as if there are so many people dropping bottles outside of the designated bottle dropping zones then probably the designated bottle dropping zone is setup incorrectly. Find other methods of liquid delivery for the mass participation road races, such as different types of compostable cups and ways of collecting them efficiently, not attempt to penalise runners for something that is out of their control when in a hoard of thousands of other runners.
PhilOssophy wrote: » The expectation would not be that they'd get absolutely every runner who litters, but if the threat of DQ hung over you, I'd expect everybody to behave a bit more responsibly.
bucketybuck wrote: » Is every volunteer along the course also a marshal? Have they all had their eyesight tested? Will I get banned from a race because I was number 889 and race number 888 threw a bottle and was seen by a volunteer 300 yards away? Will I get banned because I threw a bottle to my wife in the crowd as I passed and a marshal 300 yards away thought I was littering? What if the marshal just didn't like me and said I was littering? Is there a chance of appeal? How does getting banned from the next race work? I assume a volunteer will have to cross check email addresses against a banned list and then refuse entries? How does that mesh with online entry, get the computer to verify the email? What if they just use another email address? Who actually has to officially do the banning? The race director I assume? Who does it for headphone wearers? Do headphone wearers ever actually get banned? I have absolutely no problem with banning egregious litterbugs, I am a little curious how this is actually supposed to work in the real world.
strandroad wrote: » Have several volunteers film the run along the route and disqualify runners filmed littering
PhilOssophy wrote: » Dublin was a complete mess after the Dublin marathon and still along the route, there are still bottles, energy gels, etc (where they are not covered up by leaves only to be discovered in Spring). What should/can be done about it? I appreciate that there often isn't enough/big enough bins provided along the routes, I've also seen people throw bottles into/over ditches, etc in running events before. Is there enough education here, i.e do people realise that sometimes you have to carry a bottle for a few minutes after you finish but you will eventually come across one? Or should there be some form of undercover "litter warden" and if people are seen littering (you have their identity from their bib) they should be fined or something, just like littering any other day of the week?
strandroad wrote: » It doesn't need to be complicated.
bucketybuck wrote: » But it is complicated, the fact that it takes only half a second to think of a dozen simple questions and their implications demonstrates that quite clearly. I mean, saying that somebody should film the route, then disqualify runners with a public announcement! Sure, its a nice thought, but get any part of that wrong and you could easily end up in court for GDPR breach or maybe defamation. Its easy to throw out soundbites about what should be done, far harder to do something about it in the real world.
bucketybuck wrote: » Its easy to throw out soundbites about what should be done, far harder to do something about it in the real world.
strandroad wrote: » Triathlons do it and have for a while so it's clearly doable!
robinph wrote: » As much as I'd like to be able to aim a bottle at the bin on the side of the road, it's not always possible to get the aim right whilst also running at pace, and throwing the bottle over the heads of the 50 other people between me and the bin.
PhilOssophy wrote: » Excuse. Where there's a will there's a way
scoobydude wrote: » At the Clonakilty event over the weekend the water bottles at all the stations were biodegradable. Now I know there is a responsibility on the participants to not litter, but at least the gob****es who feel the need to fling the bottle into the adjoining hedges and fields aren't doing too much damage
