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Random EV thoughts.....

Old diesel

The main motors forum has the motors chat thread for the little things one would like to say but might not justify a thread.

Thought it might be an idea for here re hybrids and EV stuff.....

To kick off - i wonder if a new measurement for EVs might be assuming a start trip at 100 percent......

A how much range do you get with a 15 minute stop.

With a 350 kw charging a Porsche Tayman might do very well with getting on for 400 miles...

A Leaf 62 not so good.

Obviously where a car can do more then 50 kw charging we would need both a 50 kw and a whatever the cars top rate is figure*.

*IF chargers are available

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KCross

https://www.irishexaminer.com/breakingnews/ireland/esb-begins-decarbonising-yellow-van-fleet-with-70-full-electric-vehicles-966357.html

Hopefully they'll give some direct feedback to the eCars wing of their company!

Although they'll probably be charged at depots but its good to see them moving this direction anyway.

Mike9832

embraer170 wrote: »

A reasonably equipped electric Skoda Citygo (with an extended warranty) can be had for about €16,000 in Germany after all the subsidies.

I am hesitating between that a well equipped e-Golf for €26,000. In both cases, it would be second family car for city runs (and 150km/day round trip commute for a year or so).

In either cases, I hope to hold on to the car for a good few years.

€10,000 cheaper one of course

Great deal and they are plenty roomy for a run about

charlieIRL

https://m.independent.ie/irish-news/education/schools-will-plug-into-the-green-revolution-with-30m-fund-to-install-electric-car-points-38722758.html

Don’t really see the point in this unless it’s to try get teachers to buy an EV.

I’d rather the money was spent on additional street chargers

September1

charlieIRL wrote: »

https://m.independent.ie/irish-news/education/schools-will-plug-into-the-green-revolution-with-30m-fund-to-install-electric-car-points-38722758.html

Don’t really see the point in this unless it’s to try get teachers to buy an EV.

I’d rather the money was spent on additional street chargers

It would useful for parents waiting for children as well.

ELM327

September1 wrote: »

It would useful for parents waiting for children as well.

Not really, even if you are waiting for 30 mins you would get 3.5kWh off a 7kW post. Unless they are DC chargers it's pointless unless you are a teacher.

MJohnston

September1 wrote: »

It would useful for parents waiting for children as well.

Most of them shouldn't be using cars for that, EV or not.

charlieIRL

I don't think I'd be bothered connecting to one while waiting for the kids, its literally just arrive and pick up and go (mine are in secondary school) I'd only collect once or twice a week as well.

If they are available to the public then i can see them being abused, parents drop kids and then plug in the car and head off about their business and collect the car and kids later that day.

KCross

charlieIRL wrote: »

https://m.independent.ie/irish-news/education/schools-will-plug-into-the-green-revolution-with-30m-fund-to-install-electric-car-points-38722758.html

Don’t really see the point in this unless it’s to try get teachers to buy an EV.

Has to be that. Pointless for parents.

Its a case of the government practicing what it teaches in relation to companies providing work chargers for their employees.

Kramer

September1 wrote: »

It would useful for parents waiting for children as well.

I didn't think it was legal to install on double yellow lines & footpaths?

zg3409

embraer170 wrote: »

A reasonably equipped electric Skoda Citygo (with an extended warranty) can be had for about €16,000 in Germany after all the subsidies.

I am hesitating between that a well equipped e-Golf for €26,000. In both cases, it would be second family car for city runs (and 150km/day round trip commute for a year or so).

In either cases, I hope to hold on to the car for a good few years.

I would be worried with an egolf with a 32kwh battery reliably making 150km at all speeds in all temperatures with enough spare range for diversions, lunch time trips, shopping for food in evenings. Once temperatures drop less than zero degrees range may plummet and rain and wind drop range. I have a 28kwh Ioniq and I say 160km guaranteed in nearly any conditions. I would do a lot of research and consider 40kwh battery Zoe with 43kw charging ability (most are 22kw charge speed Max). Start a new thread with commute details (distance speed towns etc ) if you want advice from owners. You may have to lower driving speed during freezing conditions

https://ev-database.org/car/1087/Volkswagen-e-Golf

drunkmonkey

zg3409 wrote: »

https://ev-database.org/car/1087/Volkswagen-e-Golf

That website looks like it's using American speed and converting the range into km/h, it's way overstating cold weather range if you were to assume motorway speed of 120km/, I think the Yanks when quoting range it's 98km/h they mean.
Can't find what values there using on that website.

McGiver

drunkmonkey wrote: »

That website looks like it's using American speed and converting the range into km/h, it's way overstating cold weather range if you were to assume motorway speed of 120km/, I think the Yanks when quoting range it's 98km/h they mean.
Can't find what values there using on that website.

It's a UK website AFAIK. UK motorway speed limit is 113kph.

McGiver

Polish government has introduced EV subsidies.

Capped at 30k EUR before grants
Grant is 30% of the value
Car must be held for 2 years cannot be exported etc

Skoda Citygo iV after subsidies is 12k.
Peageot e208 after subsidies is 20k.

Time for RoI gov to step up the game...

unkel

McGiver wrote: »

Skoda Citygo iV after subsidies is 12k.

That's unreal. Any link?

We really need very cheap EV superminis. I've been saying it for a long time.

McGiver

unkel wrote:

That's unreal. Any link?

It's only in Polish, my Polish colleague sent it to me. While I have a basic understanding of Polish I had to Google Translate it.
I'll post a Google translated link once I pull the link to the Polish version.

D3V!L

Anyone else get annoyed by the "mild hybrid" ads on the radio ? They're clearly just jumping on the band wagon with something that is slightly more advanced than stop/start technology for ICE cars.

Mickeroo

I guess Hyundai can't be saying self charging hybrid so they had to some up with another meaningless phrase.

D3V!L

Mickeroo wrote: »

I guess Hyundai can't be saying self charging hybrid so they had to some up with another meaningless phrase.

There's a smack of "HD-Ready" off it :rolleyes:

ELM327

McGiver wrote: »

Polish government has introduced EV subsidies.
Capped at 30k EUR before grants

Grant is 30% of the value

Car must be held for 2 years cannot be exported etc

Skoda Citygo iV after subsidies is 12k.
Peageot e208 after subsidies is 20k.

Time for RoI gov to step up the game...

I see your point but I disagree with grants in this manner.
A much more effective grant (ie goes to the consumer not the manufacturer) is the form of tax credits like they do in the US

micks_address

Interesting article from forbes. Sales forecasts seem to be much higher that actual likely sales.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/neilwinton/2019/11/25/electric-car-sales-ambitions-dangerously-ahead-of-forecasts/

redcup342

unkel wrote: »

That's unreal. Any link?

We really need very cheap EV superminis. I've been saying it for a long time.

https://spidersweb.pl/autoblog/samochody-elektryczne-doplaty-2019/

Makes the E-Up around 1500 euros cheaper than Germany for the basic model after grants.

No way people will go for it, the have practically zero rapid chargers except around Warsaw and a few of the bigger cities.

It's a rather large country so it's not a matter of sticking in a few rapids along the M8.

ELM327

micks_address wrote: »

Interesting article from forbes. Sales forecasts seem to be much higher that actual likely sales.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/neilwinton/2019/11/25/electric-car-sales-ambitions-dangerously-ahead-of-forecasts/

Interesting but they completely ignore a number of factors, from TCO to the appreciation to above initial purchase price when new in some cases. This shows pent up demand.

I don't think everyone will be driving EV in 11 years but I do think 25-30% is achievable. The next crop of EV due in the next 1-2 years will go a long way to achieving that.

Even in our little backward republic, we sold more EV in 2019 than in 2010-2018 combined. That's exponential growth - albeit from a microscopic base

I think I'm a good example of why EVs will continue to grow. I literally could not give a hoot about climate change, I despise the great hunberg and her ilk. When choosing my car, my choices were a v12 BMW 7 series, a v10 ford f250, or a Tesla model S. And I chose the Tesla because it was the best, most interesting car. And the EV driving experience is much more comfortable than even an uber luxury v12 German limo-sedan.

We need to move away from marketing EVs on their (false) zero emissions claims and instead focus on the fact that the technology is better.

graememk

Mickeroo wrote: »

I guess Hyundai can't be saying self charging hybrid so they had to some up with another meaningless phrase.

Kia too! With the Sportage diesel mild hybrid, it's a 48v battery, suppose it's better than sitting in traffic with the engine ticking over

McGiver

ELM327 wrote:

I see your point but I disagree with grants in this manner. A much more effective grant (ie goes to the consumer not the manufacturer) is the form of tax credits like they do in the US

Absolutely. I agree. Grants hey stolen and wasted. But better something than nothing.

I've be en saying this for a while - we should tell/lobby the Irish Gov to change the system. Get rid of the direct grant and replace it with VAT exemption/refund and VRT exemption/refund. Similar system is already in place for disabled drivers - they get VAT and VRT refund. So the gov already has a template and process for this.

Tax credits would be also possible but who pays that much tax? It would have to be spread onto several years potentially and that's not practical.

ELM327

McGiver wrote: »

Absolutely. I agree. Grants hey stolen and wasted. But better something than nothing.

I've be en saying this for a while - we should tell/lobby the Irish Gov to change the system. Get rid of the direct grant and replace it with VAT exemption/refund and VRT exemption/refund. Similar system is already in place for disabled drivers - they get VAT and VRT refund. So the gov already has a template and process for this.

Tax credits would be also possible but who pays that much tax? It would have to be spread onto several years potentially and that's not practical.

Most people buying EVs, especially new or premium ones would be well into the 50% bracket.
Look at your P60 and you'd be surprised how much you pay.

If you took the 10k and put it as tax credit instead, I'd benefit from the full 10k in a year. Same for anyone buying a new one, i'd wager.

[Deleted User]

I think VW shot itself in a foot by pricing this out of reach for most people. It was supposed to be cheaper than the current cars due to lower production cost but so far the pricing look decidedly high compared to the promised price parity with a diesel Golf. Also the interior far from the promised Passat equivalent size.

micks_address

0 percent finance would help. Cousin in Scotland drives an i3 and says the government there gave him 0 percent finance on a car loan to purchase.

Certainly if VW group offer me 0 percent on a PCP in three years on an equivalent sized electric car I'll be interested. Assuming they give decent trade in value for my car.

ELM327 wrote: »

Most people buying EVs, especially new or premium ones would be well into the 50% bracket.
Look at your P60 and you'd be surprised how much you pay.

If you took the 10k and put it as tax credit instead, I'd benefit from the full 10k in a year. Same for anyone buying a new one, i'd wager.

unkel

samih wrote: »

I think VW shot itself in a foot by pricing this out of reach for most people. It was supposed to be cheaper than the current cars due to lower production cost but so far the pricing look decidedly high compared to the promised price parity with a diesel Golf. Also the interior far from the promised Passat equivalent size.

+1

I can't see how anyone would spend €40k on a very basic spec small family hatch, essentially a Golf size car. The lower range model in 2021 for €30k makes more sense. That is more like Golf diesel price.

unkel

McGiver wrote: »

Polish government has introduced EV subsidies.
Capped at 30k EUR before grants

Grant is 30% of the value

Car must be held for 2 years cannot be exported etc

Skoda Citygo iV after subsidies is 12k.

The VW e-UP will cost a bit under €16k after incentives

Skoda Citygo isn't in the article. I looked up the configurator on the Polish Skoda site to check for a price, but it ain't there either. Where did you get the 12k from?

September1

McGiver wrote: »

Polish government has introduced EV subsidies.
Capped at 30k EUR before grants

Grant is 30% of the value

Car must be held for 2 years cannot be exported etc

Skoda Citygo iV after subsidies is 12k.
Peageot e208 after subsidies is 20k.

Time for RoI gov to step up the game...

L40 is 19k https://www-europe.nissan-cdn.net/content/dam/Nissan/pl/brochures/Pricelists/NEW_LEAF_PL.pdf